C

chris mitchell

Well Known Member
Patron
I'm trying to sell the part complete RV-4 kit that I obtained from a builder in Idaho. I keep getting asked for a US FAA build log - which I don't have and have never heard of. I was under the impression that the only requirement in the US for registration with the FAA was proof that the plane was more than 51% amateur build and an inspection by a DAR.... (Unlike in the UK where they type must be approved, an inspector calls to check the work shop, then the build at each stage, signing off each time, with a final inspection before first flight.)

Sorry to ask but would somebody please clarify for me. All I have are photos that I suppose could have been taken anywhere, any time. Vendor and I are not on the best-est of terms!

Thanks

Chris
 
This AC might help -

AC 20-27

The applicable bit

h. Ensure You Understand the Need To Properly Document Your Project.
 It is important to document the entire fabrication and assembly process from the beginning to the end, in a continuous and sequential manner. This is because, at the time of certification, the FAA is required to ascertain whether the amateur builder(s) fabricated and assembled the major portion of the aircraft. Making this finding requires adequate, sufficient, and credible documentation. This documentation should clearly show who performed the task(s), when and where the tasks were performed, depict the methods of construction and quality of workmanship, and document the use of commercial and non-commercial assistance. Examples of documentation and methods that can be used include the following:
(1) The Amateur-Built Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist (2009);
(2) Comprehensive builder’s logs in any format, to include photographs of all the steps included in each of the listed tasks in the Amateur-Builder Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist (2009), materials and techniques used in construction, as well as dates, locations, and detailed descriptions;
(3) Photographs/video/DVD;
(4) Drawings and engineering specifications;
(5) Kit manufacturer’s data, when necessary;
(6) Relevant documentation (for example, plans) and references (for example, handbooks) used;
(7) Documentation concerning any commercial assistance used, including receipts;
(8) Documentation concerning any non-commercial assistance used;
(9) Part inventories and histories;
(10) Receipts and catalogs; and
(11) Logbook entries.

It's up to your DAR, but the words above say "examples that can be used" rather than a specific builders log....:)
 
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Gil's answer is comprehensive. Teh short answer is that there is no specified format or level of detail that MUST be used for a builder's log - which measn that a box of photos and maybe some scribbles in the margins of the instructions can satisfy the "requirement" for a log. Maybe even just the box of photos. Or the scribbles.
 
The build log needs to show some sort of chronological order of the build.
 
On my 8 project I'm just writing the date by each major step in the linear instructions along with checking off each step as they are done. shows the timeline nicely. Then I'm taking lots of pictures and uploading them to my flickr account with one of me with the plane parts thrown in occasionally.

This is just what I did when I built my 9A and had no problems with the inspection or repairman's process.
 
So is it a bad idea to buy a project where someone else has the tail, wings and most of the fuselage complete? Even if the seller has detailed pics of the project to that point. I assume the FAA will not issue the purchaser an airworthiness cert based on the fact that he is not the primary builder?
 
You do not need to be the primary builder. You only need to show that the major portion of the aircraft was amateur-built.
 
You may not be able to get the repairman's certificate (forget whether that's the exact name or not) to sign off your own maintenance, if you buy an airframe that's 90% complete, however... Mel, correct me if i'm wrong?
 
Thanks for all the replies. I had kinda thought much less documentation was needed. Most usefully, I now know that it's the amateur built status, not just one specific builder that is important.

Of course, there other reasons for not buying part-built kits without a LOT of careful checking of the build, as my experience shows. I suspect the standards reached by VAF members is higher than most to judge by what I see on here.

The only bright spots in my little tale will be that I might get something for the wings and fuse, and the vendor has graciously agreed to give me some compensation. But if anyone else is tempted by a part built kit, I would say be very careful, check EVERYTHING yourself against the plans and don't rely on a third party report........

New fuse and wing kits now on order!

Chris
 
Mel- clarification, please

Mel said:
You do not need to be the primary builder. You only need to show that the major portion of the aircraft was amateur-built.
Click to expand...

Mel:

After reading section 17 of AC 20-27, it was my understanding the review was to confirm that the individual applying for the repairman certificate was the primary builder; did I get that wrong?

"17. Becoming a Repairman of Your Amateur-Built Aircraft. You can get a
repairman certificate under certain circumstances. However, the only privilege this
certificate gives you under 14 CFR § 65.104, Repairman certificate—experimental
aircraft builder—Eligibility, privileges and limitations, is to do the annual condition
inspection. The certificate will be valid only for a specific person and a specific aircraft.
The privileges and limitations in part 65, Certification: Airmen Other Than Flight
Crewmembers, § 65.103, Repairman certificate: Privileges and limitations, do not apply
to becoming this type of repairman (experimental aircraft builder). To get a certificate,
apply to your local FAA office. See Appendix 14 to this AC and AC 65-23, Certification
of Repairmen (Experimental Aircraft Builders), for additional application information.
You can get a certificate if you are—

a. The primary builder of your aircraft [italics added], even as the second builder, and can
satisfactorily prove to us that you can determine whether the aircraft is in a condition for
safe operation.
b. One of the builders of an amateur-built aircraft registered in a corporation’s
name. The applicant should prove through use of the builder’s log that they can
determine whether the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation..."

AC 65-23 section 4 also provides guidance on Certification of a Repairman:
"...4. ELIGIBILITY. An individual desiring to be certificated as a repairman is required to:
a. Complete an application for a repairman certificate (experimental aircraft builder) at the
time of original certification of the aircraft along with FAA Form 8130-12 attesting to building
more than 50 percent of the aircraft [italics added], which must be notarized.
b. Be a U.S. citizen, or an individual of a foreign country, who has been admitted for
permanent residence in the United States.
c. Be 18 years of age or older and the primary builder of the aircraft. [italics added] For example, when a
school, club, or partnership builds an aircraft, only one individual will be considered for a
repairman certificate for each aircraft built, such as the class instructor or designated project
leader. This individual is considered the primary builder.

I'd very much like to be corrected on my interpretation; if the requirement is only to demonstrate that the majority of the build
was completed by amateurs, "gamechanger" is my very happy reaction as well.

Thanks,
 
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This thread is about the eligibility of the aircraft as amateur-built, nothing about the repairman certificate.
 
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