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1911pilot

Well Known Member
I'm anxiously awaiting my 9a emp kit and I was wondering what others are doing for thier builders logs. Is the 3 ring binder the way to go our is Kitlog worth it? I'm kind of leaning towards Kitlog right now but... Has anyone had any luck running it in Softwindows or virtual PC? I'm all OS X at home right now I'd rather not have to get into a XP system.

Thanks! I'm sure I will have a lot more questions before this adventure is over.

Jeff
 
1911pilot said:
I'm anxiously awaiting my 9a emp kit and I was wondering what others are doing for thier builders logs.....................Jeff
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My skewed view...If you are working on an assembly and get stuck trying to understand what the plans indicate or otherwise puzzling over this or that, does that count as "construction time" even though you are not physically working on it? Because I'm not known as a great thinker, I spent more time trying to figure out what to do as actually doing it. So I never sat down and documented every time I physically did something on the project (technically called touch labor) so in that regard no paperwork exists and I have no idea how much time actually went into the building of my RV. When I applied for the airworthiness certificate, the DAR happily accepted the many hundreds of detail construction photos I took and a binder full of purchasing receipts as the "builders log". I might not know how many hours went into its construction, but I can tell you (don't ask) to the penny what I spent!

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
 
builder's log

I just use a bound journal, and put in entries like this:

Monday, July 11, 2005 13:00-18:15
fitting and trimming canopy skirts
staring at plans for cowl

Tuesday, July 12, 2005 09:30-11:45
drilling canopy skirts

I typically get 8 or so entries per page. I'm on my second journal. Photos go on my website when I finish a "chunk" of work.

This won't be as cool as the final product with kitlog or another system, but I don't have a PC in the shop. Usually when I get back from the shop I'm attacked by my 3-year old and 5-year old little girls, and don't have time to transfer what's in my head to the computer before I forget it. YMMV.
 
I agree with Rick - no need to go overboard. My 'official' builders log is a 6"x9" notebook with dates and what I did on each day. I started keeping track of time but keeping track of time just took time (away from building). I am also documenting with LOTS of photos and of course receipts.

With that being said, I guess I am not sticking by my own rule. I created a website to basically show what I did each day. The web pages are made by database entries and photos for each day.

So no need to go overboard, unless you want to!
 
Keep it simple...

I'm with the other guys - keep it simple!

Since I do have an old PC in my shop, I have an Excel Spreadsheet that I keep for a log. Four columns - Date, What I Did, Hours Spent, and Cumulative Hours. That's it - nothing fancy. Before I turn out the lights from a building session, I bring up the sheet, type the date, a few words like "Did more sanding on the @#$%! cowl", and put down the hours spent to the nearest half-hour (it all averages out).

I take photos with the digital camera along the way, and download those to my laptop, sorted by airplane component, whenever I get the chance.

And I have a big manila folder that receipts go in - I don't even WANT to total that up! (But since all of my purchases go on my credit card, and that goes into Quicken, I have a very accurate record).

Paul Dye
 
Paper copy

TShort said:
... then you just print it out each time you fill a page and add it to a 3 ring binder.
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That's a good idea! No reason to let a computer crash cause you to lose a lot of your log.
 
I am using my website as my builders log. I print the new stuff off once a week, and put it in my 3 ring binder. No additional writing, and pics are included in the printout. I also keep reciepts in an envelope.
 
Kit Log

I purchased a kit log program from Vans when I started my project,RV-7-A. It was a waste. The data entry part of it was ok, however the picture posting is what I have a problem with. All I can get is a small 2" x 3" grainy picture in the program no matter how high of a quality picture I try to post. You can't call these people either, only "E" mail. I am going back to a excel spread sheet in a binder with some good size photos in the binder. Like everyone said before Keep it simple.

Victor Herbert
Fort Myers Fl.

Waiting on the fuse. kit. [slow build]
 
I've built three airplanes and never kept a log. I've never had an inspector ask for it either! All I did was keep a photo album (or for the Rocket, a web album), and dated the photos either in writing on the back or with a date stamp on my digital camera.

All they are looking for is proof that you built it. Even if everything was destroyed in a fire the day before your inspection, all you'd need is a notorized affidavit.

Short message is spend your time building, not writing a novel. (Unless you really WANT to write a novel. "It was a dark and stormy night...."
 
While I keep a builder's log on an excel spreadsheet (just to have a backup), I've heard that most DARs will more likely try to figure out if you actually built it by asking you questions. If you can't fluently talk about the project, no amount of log entries (which could easily be copied from another builder) or even pictures would convince them. Still, I think keeping a log (and having a few pictures) is a good idea. I think software is overkill, but I'm sure it can be very effective as well. I have not gone through the inspection process yet, so take this suggestion for what it's worth.

Good luck.
 
Great

Thanks guys, looks like I'm not gonna get to worried about it. I'm not too good at that kind of stuff anyway. Not the scrapbooking type.

Jeff
 
Jeff,
These guys are right. The builders log does not have to be at all elaborate. Just a cronological order of the building process. It is also correct that the DAR will probably make his decision on eligibility based more on an interview type discussion. However, the builder's log IS a requirement, regardless of how scant it is.
Mel...DAR
 
Sweeeeet....

I'm anxiously awaiting my 9a emp kit
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Imagine that, The receiving guy brought a present to my office today. :)
I'd post the pic but this XP machine dosen't seem to want to resize the pic. Oh well. Looks like UPS only managed to get one end of the big box open, everything looks OK so far.

Thanks Mel, I had planned on taking a load of pictures but I wasn't sure about how much of a novel I should write about it.
Jeff
 
Basic freeware blog software

There are tons of free weblog sites and software that you can use and easily customize to make a builder log that you can share with your folks and EAA buddies. This is not too difficult to do and would fulfill any DAR needs (you can even print it out for 'em).

Regards, Paul
 
You are more than welcome

TShort said:
I use an excel spreadsheet which I "borrowed" from Bill Repucci's web site:

http://www.repucci.com/bill/things_to_consider.html#Builders Log Book

It keeps track of hours, etc for you and then you just print it out each time you fill a page and add it to a 3 ring binder.

Thanks Bill! :)


Thomas
-8 wings
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Good to know someone has found that helpful. Just my way of giving a little back to all those who have helped me with advice and time.
 
300 page Bound Journal

Date, number of photos in the current work session and cum hours in the margin. Start time, description of work and photos, stop time and signature in the main section. Well over 1600 photos in an expanded album with all photos dated with the corresponding log entry date in sharpie black on the back. I have used both documents MANY times to solve problems. I am never going to do this again and I want to be able to savor the memories to the end of my days. No better way computer whiz bang, operating system, application program change, computer hardware failure, obsolesence, errors, storage medium improvement is going to erode and ultimately destroy my record. The FSDO was very happy with my evidence of building the plane but it is more important to me than anyone else. I'm now on page 300 and the book actually has 304 pages. I think I will get it all in but I'm still logging and photographing any building activity that is necessary to get the plane in its final configuration. Maintenance is not logged but when I decided the plane cannot be flown safely IFR without an autopilot I put one in and that is logged. At the moment I have 4216.1 hours logged.

Bob Axsom
 
victor herbert said:
I purchased a kit log program from Vans when I started my project,RV-7-A. It was a waste. The data entry part of it was ok, however the picture posting is what I have a problem with. All I can get is a small 2" x 3" grainy picture in the program no matter how high of a quality picture I try to post. You can't call these people either, only "E" mail. I am going back to a excel spread sheet in a binder with some good size photos in the binder. Like everyone said before Keep it simple.

Victor Herbert
Fort Myers Fl.

Waiting on the fuse. kit. [slow build]
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Victor:

Please contact me offline by email or by phone (yes you can call us, we respond to all phone calls within 24 hours) 480-361-9011. After our last discussion, I didn't hear from you, so I'm assuming your problem was solved. I'd like to try to get it working for you, or give you your money back. There are not any other reports of this problem, so I'd like to make it right for you.

Paul Besing
 
parashak said:
There are tons of free weblog sites and software that you can use and easily customize to make a builder log that you can share with your folks and EAA buddies. This is not too difficult to do and would fulfill any DAR needs (you can even print it out for 'em).

Regards, Paul
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Just be sure you print it out often or download that website to your computer. I'm an advocate of printing often. I had someone come by the booth at Copperstate and tell me that they used a website, the site went away, and the builder's log was gone!

Paul Besing
 
TShort said:
I use an excel spreadsheet which I "borrowed" from Bill Repucci's web site:

http://www.repucci.com/bill/things_to_consider.html#Builders Log Book

It keeps track of hours, etc for you and then you just print it out each time you fill a page and add it to a 3 ring binder.

Thanks Bill! :)


Thomas
-8 wings
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FYI - I've added another page (tab) to my log (but still need to add it to the down loadable version) to track installed equipment, their serial numbers, make, model, date of install, length of warranty, mfg address, etc. This will make future AD's and equipment issues easier to track.

Anything with a serial number gets logged. Andair fuel valve, brakes, engine, carb, radios, etc.

(Thomas, you are more than welcome. I hope you find it useful.)
 
alpinelakespilot2000 said:
While I keep a builder's log on an excel spreadsheet (just to have a backup), I've heard that most DARs will more likely try to figure out if you actually built it by asking you questions. If you can't fluently talk about the project, no amount of log entries (which could easily be copied from another builder) or even pictures would convince them. Still, I think keeping a log (and having a few pictures) is a good idea. I think software is overkill, but I'm sure it can be very effective as well. I have not gone through the inspection process yet, so take this suggestion for what it's worth.

Good luck.
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I just gave a forum at Copperstate on this subject. Over the years, I've kept up with people and asked them how KitLog sufficed for the inspection. In some ways, it was overkill. Some DAR's will spend 10 minutes on the log. Some won't look at it at all. Some will spend an hour going over it.

A detailed log will help you in more ways than just the inspection. If you are organized, the log looks good, then that speaks alot about your attention to detail.

Where the log is really beneficial now is two other areas. First, as a novelty. Bind it in a nice binder, take it to fly ins. Then, when you have 10,000 questions, you can let people look at your log as to how you did something.

Second, is in the event you ever sell your plane or even partially completed project, the builder log will tell the potential builder alot about what you did, how you did things, in addition to the visual inspection. Whether you use KitLog, a website, a spreadsheet, etc, it is an integral part of the project and should be detailed enough as mentioned here. Then again, there are areas where you don't need to be very specific. To take pictures and log how you dimpled 1000 holes, is probably not worthy of spending time on your log. Structual changes, closing wings, riveting ribs to spars, and plan deviations, should definately be logged with some detail.

As far as knowing if you built it, they'll know in the first few minutes if you built it. Your log doesn't have to show pictures of you smiling with your rivet gun. They'll know if you built it.
 
There is no answer

Only thing that matters is that the DAR is convinced you did it.
My last inspection the DAR accepted check marks next to the paragraphs in the assembly instructions and a few photos on a laptop.

Kahuna
DOnt loose any sleep over it
 
Kahuna said:
Only thing that matters is that the DAR is convinced you did it.
My last inspection the DAR accepted check marks next to the paragraphs in the assembly instructions and a few photos on a laptop.

Kahuna
DOnt loose any sleep over it
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Actually, it doesn't matter if the DAR is convinced you built it. That only applies to the 51% rule, which is totally different application. You can have it built by someone and still have it inspected. The repairman application doesn't even have to be applied for. I applied for my repairman certficate after the fact, through the local FSDO.
 
Hotspot

The builder's log seems to be a hotspot just like the "taildragger vs nosegear discussion".

I use Paul's Kitlog and just upgraded it to his latest version. Technical support is good and the upgrade is really a lot nicer. Backups to a thumbdrive are easy and nice.

It may be overkill, but so is $350 for a drill! I like it, it's easy, and it works for me.

Hwood
 
Dirt simple

All I do is scribble next to the box in the instruction manual the date that I completed a step. Now that I have the website, I don't even do that.

I also have a file with all my reciepts in it. Buy a part, throw the reciept in the file. I've never looked at it, and I have no idea how much I've spent so far.

So I don't know exactly how long it took, or precisely which days I worked on it, or exactly what I spent but who cares? It'll fly the same if it takes me 1000 hours or 5000 hours.

It's just an airplane :D

My digital camera (I would imaging most are like this nowadays) embeds date/time information in the EXIF header in the picture. As long as you have the date set right (which I didn't for the first month), keeping a log is TRIVIAL. Every now and then when you're working, just snap a picture of some interesting thing. Make sure you have a few pictures of yourself in there too every now and then.

At the end of the day (or when your camera fills up, or when you feel like it), just dump it all to a folder somewhere and you're done. Each photo has the date and time embedded in the header information. Sounds like a log to me! You can come back later and split them up by day. There are neat tools that will examine the EXIF information and do stuff like that automatically.
(I should mention that if you go this route, you should really have a place where you can scribble down some notes by hand for days where something interesting happened or you deviated from the plans/instructions, but the pictures take care of all the mundane heavy lifting...i.e. put the skin on, trimmed the stiffeners etc..).

Alternately, you can do what I do and use the EXIF information to auto-generate web pages for you. I just dump all the files in a folder, run a PHP script on it and presto, instant web updates. I go back later and fill in comments when I'm able. I'd be happy to send you the scripts I wrote. If you wait a week, it'll auto-resize all of the pictures as well, making it even simpler.
 
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