B

bearair

Member
Got a few questions about builders help. In my local area I joined the local EAA chapter looking for tips on building. The reception to a "new" guy into the group here has been less than enthusiastic to say the least. We even helped out with cleaning up the hangar setting up for dinners and the Christmas party last year, and doing some other volunteer stuff. We've been going on and off for over a year and have suggested on a couple of occasions that maybe there should be some builders workshops. They haven't done any in two years. The new chapter newsletter just came out, and this was printed in it. All punctuation (or lack of it) is theirs, not mine.

TONY TINBINDER says...... by (author witheld)
So you have decided to build a metal airplane? Well do you have any idea what you are getting your self into? Do you realize that you have to build a metal airplane at least twice. Yeah, talk to the old hands and they will agree. Even the ones that love working with metal. If you are starting from scratch or building a precut kit the process involves everything you have to do to start fitting the parts together, then when you have them all drilled and fitted together they have to come apart for things like deburring, priming, and maybe even dimpling before you are ready to fit it all back together and try setting a few rivets.

Having been most of the way through this building adventure the best advice I can give you is try to find someone who has a project under way and see if they will let you give them a hand. Do what-ever you have to do to win the right to at least be an observer. Try to take up the learning posture, your mouth shut, your eyes and ears open. Some times the building process can be rather stressful and your vocabulary may be expanded, but if you keep quiet you will probably be allowed to hang around. If nothing else you will learn from the mistakes of others.

(end article)

First a little more background. I'm the only "new" builder in the chapter currently starting a metal plane. There are others building, but just about all of them are long term "on hold" projects. I'm the only one that has brought up the possibility of maybe having workshops to address building tecniques including fabric, metal, wood and fiberglass throughout the year. So, as a result I may be taking this a bit personally.

How would those on this forum take the last paragraph in the article? I've got no problem with lending someone a hand with their project to learn something. My main issue is with the "do whatever you have to do to win the right to be an observer" and the "if you keep quiet, you will probably be allowed to hang around" thing.

Win the right to be an observer? Keep quiet to be "allowed" to be around? Is this the attitude that I can expect from other EAA chapters? This short article pretty well sums up how the people in the local chapter have acted around us. By us I mean the wife and I, as well as several other builders that I've met that have been totally turned off by their own reception. It's pretty much the attitude that "you ain't from around here, are ya boy?".

At this point I'm 40 years old and have been fabricating things all my life. I feel that I definately have something to contribute and have been given the cold shoulder by most of the people in the chapter. Is this normal? If so, I'll build my own plane and bid a fare thee well to the EAA. If not, does anyone have a good suggestion? There is another chapter about a 50 minute drive from here that I have yet to attend. I don't know what they're like yet. I'm probably going there next month instead of to the local chapter out of curiosity. Has anyone else had this experience?
 
It doesn't sound right... honestly, I wouldn't go back. This is NOT the attitude (nor spirit) of 99.999% of RV community (ok.. maybe 100%, but I don't know everyone :)
 
bearair said:
Do you realize that you have to build a metal airplane at least twice.
Click to expand...

At least 2 1/2 times in my case.

current status: I'm almost done with the left elevator...lol
 
Personally, I think that sucks. It is not in the spirit of the EAA and aviation in general.
Heck, this weekend I mentioned to an RV-6 owner / buddy of mine that I was going to be working on hanging drywall in my new shop ... he showed up Friday afternoon, and two other guys showed up completely on their own! All the RV guys I have ever met here will talk your ear off nonstop about building / flying / etc - and are always excited to have people come look at their projects or take people for rides.
The whole concept of it being an "old boys' club" and you having to sort of pay your dues is a real bummer. You shouldn't have to "win the right to be an observer". Keeping your mouth shut ... most of the guys I visit talk so much we never get much work done (and nobody minds a bit!) Doesn't sound like they're too enthusiastic about introducing people to their hobby.
Is there another chapter anywhere close by?

Thomas
-8 wings
 
I, for one, think the author of that article comes across like an arrogent a-hole. I'm afraid some on this list might take this personally, but there are a few folks involved in homebuilding who act as if they invented the airplane, flying, etc. On the other hand, most of the people I've encountered have been terrifically knowledgeable and generous. I say you sh!tcan those blowhards and find a better group.

And that bit about having to build two planes to get it right is pure B.S. (I hope, cuz I'm getting too old)
 
That chapter is NOT typical of EAA Chapters. I belong to 3 Chapters, Dallas, McKinney, and Sherman. All three encourage new builders to seek out tech counselors. other builders, etc. In the Dallas chapter we even have newsletter assembly meeting a week before the monthly meeting. The meeting is almost always at someone's house who has a project underway.
We have people building RVs, other metal airplanes, rag & tube, and even plastic airplane. Find another chapter, and get on with the rivet pounding.
Mel...DAR
 
Bearair,

It is unfortunately true that "it only takes one bad apple to spoil a bushel"...and in all my years of aviation, I have seen this too many times. The vast majority of people in the aviation world are great, sharing, generous folks. But every airport has at aleast a couple who really DO "think that they invented the airplane"... (Boy, I love that saying - have to remember it!). Unfortunately, these folks usually camp in the lobby where newcomers and transient pilots get their first impression - and it is never good. How many times have you walked in to the lounge and all the conversation stopped?! I have seen it many tmes, and think that it is one of the great reasons for the decline in the number of new pilots. But it is not a prevailing attitude - it only takes 1% of the people to sour attitudes if they are ones that are visible! These grumpy folks are probably feeling inadequate themselves, and have to try and show how much better they are by putting others down. Disgusting.

Fortunately, I have found the "grumpy quotient" to be much, much smaller in the RV world than in just about any other corner of aviation. It has taken me a little while to find that out, because I am kind of a loner in my personal time, and took some time to reach out and find other builders. Perhaps it was my previous experiences with the "grumpies" that made me stay in my shop and build by myself. I have yet to visit an EAA chapter (you CAN build without one if you need to), but in my growing interaction with other RV builders, I have really found a tremendous number of great people!!

My advice - try another EAA chapter, and if that doesn't work out, find some other RV builders - they will be the finest kind. You CAN build an airplane without the EAA - but you will enrichen your experience if you build it with like-minded people who really want to help.

Sorry if I have offended - I am always embarrassed when people aren't treated well by our peers...

Paul
 
If I were in your shoes right now, my next moves would be:

1- Speak to TONY TINBINDER face-to-face, in private (at least, not in front of other chapter-members). Ask him flat-out if his "column" in the newsletter was aimed at me. If he answers affirmatively;
2- Immediately leave that chapter and join a new one.

F that kind of crap; I can already see from the outside that there's waaay too much fun to be had with this project to let a bunch of "Well, my build is kinda in limbo right now" jacka**es ruin it for me and my wife.


My typically blunt 2 cents...
 
Not all EAA chapters are like that. The meetings I have been to have been good and the people friendly. When they found out we were working on an RV tw oof the members ofered to take my son and I flying in their RV6A and RV7A.

You can check out samples of the newsletters form our chapter by going to
http://www.eaa33.org/newsletters/index.php The editor does a nice job as well as those who submit articles.

Hope you are close to another chapter that is representative of the EAA that I have seen so far.
 
There's a nice house for sale down the street. Buy it, move in, and join my chapter. We will welcome you open arms. Besides the $30 a year, you only need a set of cleco pliers to fit right in. A scar from a drill bit makes you an old timer!

We have a number of RV under construction, and the club's builder's group is building a Hummel Ultra Cruiser from plans. Ultra lights, powered parachutes, you name it. Everyone is always made to feel welcome. We are tied together by the love of flight.

Sorry you found a bad chapter. Join another one today.

Jekyll
 
Just to give you an idea

Just to give you an idea of the kind of folk most people are, lemme tell you how my day went.

8:00am called Paul Rosales...needed to borrow some blind rivets to keep building

8:15am Called Russ Christophers (Paul wasn't home). He had the rivets...lent my all 30 of them that he had (I'll replace them next week)

10:00am Back to work on the elevator/trim tab

3:00pm Paul Rosales called me back....I told him I already had the rivets (he certainly would have lent them to me)

5:00pm Dave Cleveland (our outgoing chapter president) stopped by. I gave him a bottle of Alodine and showed him how to run his digital camera. Had some pizza, a couple of beers, he gave me some tips and pointers. Then we tore into my wing kit (it's been sitting on the floor, unopened, since July '05). Spent the rest of the evening looking at wing kit goodies.

This is a pretty typical weekend. I've had chapter members occasionally stop in just to see what I'm up to (they assume that if the garage is open, I'm building....good assumption).

Just find yourself another chapter...your experience at this particular chapter sounds pretty a-typical.
 
My Experience

One thing that I found interesting when joining my chapter is that the majority of the members don?t have any interest in building an airplane. Some don?t even seem to have an active role in aviation. This isn?t all around bad, since many of these people contribute towards the chapter. In my opinion it gets to be a problem if you are looked at negatively for building an airplane. The ?E? in EAA doesn?t stand for a 30-year old spam can.

I certainly have not been treated negatively for building a plane, but it does not seem to be the focus of the group. Our chapter?s goals seem to be more focused on promotion of aviation (through Young Eagles, Scholarships, and youth activities). This is an admirable goal and will probably become more of an interest after completion of my plane. General activities for the chapter seem to revolve around pancake breakfasts, banquets and other non-aviation related things. None of this is bad, just not my cup o? tea. As a result, my involvement has been somewhat minimal. I do, however, converse with the other RV builders (and even a few ?other? airplanes) and make use of the Technical Counselors, who have been great.

The comments about metal aircraft construction seem very negative, as though it were written by a plastic airplane builder. How many times do you have to build a plastic plane with all of the filling and sanding afterward? Don?t get me wrong, I?m not bashing plastic planes, just pointing out that they both require some labor.
 
Hey Jekyl - Greetings
Sounds like you might be talking about my old EAA chapter(79?) at Breden Airpark with the short runway?
If it is they're a Great bunch. Miss them all .I sure did have fun there so what did I do ?? I moved to a Air Park in Florida , joined the local chapter (977) here and guess what??They are a great bunch also.
If yours is the one I think it is they are an old chapter (two didget chapter no.) Do me a favor and say hi to every one for me.
Is anyone going to Sun & Fun ?? They can stop at my place on the way down or meet there ??
Keep in touch
Bob
 
Thanks a bunch

Thanks for all the replies people. I really appreciate hearing that it's not just me that found that a bit offensive. I'll be going over to the EAA chapter that's about 40 miles away at their next meeting. It's on Wednsday a couple weeks from now if I remember correctly. Happy flying!
 
Sounds like a good plan.

I've been 'in the hobby' for....lets see...around a decade and can count the number of people who wouldn't bend over backwards to help someone on one hand.

You're certainly among friends here, bearair.

Best,
dr
 
Bob Hoffman said:
Hey Jekyl - Greetings
Sounds like you might be talking about my old EAA chapter(79?) at Breden Airpark with the short runway?
Bob
Click to expand...

Bob:

LOL! You remember the important things - THE SHORT STRIP! Yup, you nailed it but it's #70 and Braden. Founded in 57 and we still have around 4 of the charter members.

I'll mention you at the next meeting.

Jekyll
 
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