L

Loman

Well Known Member
I have been diagnosed with tennis elbow, which may have been caused by building. The treatment is rest and I'm told not to hurt it. They want me to stay away from the project for at least two months :eek:. I also use a keyboard and mouse all day at my job but do you think they would tell me to take two months off work - No chance:rolleyes:

I bet there are other sufferers out there. What worked for you? How long did you rest? How do you avoid a recurrence while continuing to build?

I am on the point of ordering an air cleco gun (I used to pride myself on a strong grip but now I avoid handshakes and the shooting pain I get from them). Any other measures to consider while building?

Got to stop typing - hurts.
 
I had-have this also, very painfull, got to be from the clieco plyers, It will never be the same. let it heal or you will go into into a yo yo.
 
Count me in this group also...not sure how it happened? spinning the deburring tool or the cleco pliers or both? I havent been to the dr. about it but have been told (my sister is a nurse) its an 'overuse' injury and needs rest. Not happening for me either...although mine isnt that painful, just a mild discomfort. KPR through the pain! :)
 
It's like Marathon training...

Start slow and finish strong. Eagerness to get started and move faster than one is ready will cause an injury that won't quite heal. I have a mild case of corpal tunnel in both wrists but amazingly enough using manual cleco tools makes it feel better (go figure). I believe the key is to pace yourself and resist the temptation to cleco the whole emp or wing skin in one session. I broke my sessions into 15 to 30 min burst with some other non-repetative activity, like edge deburring or reviewing the builders manual/plans again. That's what has and hope continues to be my solution. YMMV.

Good luck!
 
I had the same thing. I had to get a cortisone shot 2 times to get rid of it. Fun stuff but it is going to be worth it!
 
i found out when i started doing some general strength exercises a lot of my aches and pains went away in my arms. my left knee is a little sore now, but thats a different story... Olympic lifts are good for my upper body, and legs. just gotta get the knee form better.. I'm talking about aches in my wrist from using a mouse on the computer to much... even some elbow pain
 
For me it is my hand and wrist from working the cleco pliers. It was nasty on the wing skins for sure. I duck taped a pipe insulating pad to my cleco pliers on the "finger" side and it seemed to help quite a bit. Makes for a larger grip to hang onto.

Other option is I try to get Bekah in the garage when there are massive amounts of clecos to move around. It helps to have two sets of hands. ;-)
 
More of the same!

I've had this off and on for years. Came back when I started rolling the rudder skin--clecoing wing skins is a real pain. Doc says non-use for several months is only cure. I've found a couple of advil morning and night greatly help the pain and inflamation. Watching for the next used air-cleco gun to come up for sale. For now-got to keep on building!

Skyking902001
Emp-90%
Wings-75%
RV-8 QB
 
I started getting numbness in my fingers when sleeping after doing too much cleco-ing. I still have the numbness, but I got an air cleco gun and it definitely helps. I will count that as "rest" and im sure it will be ok for the rest of the build right?
 
Alfalfa

No kidding.........I take ten alfalfa pills every morning that are about the size of aspirin. They are produced by Shaklee and are priced reasonably. I suffered with tennis elbow for over two years and one day my mother-in-law suggested that I try alfalfa. I laughed. A couple of more months of complaining and she sent me a month's supply and asked me to take them every morning at breakfast. What the heck!!! I did and in two weeks it was gone. I've continued taking them for years and have done an experiment or two.....I quit taking them and in three or four days it was back. Don't laugh.....it works for me!!!!!!!

David Watson
49FD
 
Heavy briefcase

My elbow hurt several years ago and I figured out my briefcase which I lugged to work and home every day was way too heavy! Did away with the briefcase and my elbow pain was reduced significantly.

Something to consider.

Don

P.S. All my RV friends know I don't have elbow pain from working on my RV!!! :eek:
 
Could be from your computer mouse.

I had the same thing a couple of years ago, after I had changed my seating position at my computer desk. My new position had me suspending my right elbow off of the edge of the desk when I used the mouse, instead of resting it on the desk.

I switched to using my mouse with my left hand instead of my right, and after about six months, when the pain in my right elbow had subsided, I switched back to my right hand, but with a position that rested my right elbow on the desk. I have had no problems since then.

Good luck.
 
I also had the same arm pain. I started out with an ace bandage wrapped around my upper forearm, about three inches below the elbow. Then my daughter gave me a brace used for tennis elbow. It worked quite well. I never work on the plane without it.
 
Same here...Since finishing the clecoing back in June/July last year, it has gone away though. I'm sure mine was directly related to cleco pliers. I have no pain at all now in my right elbow. :cool:
 
Loman said:
I have been diagnosed with tennis elbow, which may have been caused by building. The treatment is rest and I'm told not to hurt it. They want me to stay away from the project for at least two months :eek:. I also use a keyboard and mouse all day at my job but do you think they would tell me to take two months off work - No chance:rolleyes:

I bet there are other sufferers out there. What worked for you? How long did you rest? How do you avoid a recurrence while continuing to build?

I am on the point of ordering an air cleco gun (I used to pride myself on a strong grip but now I avoid handshakes and the shooting pain I get from them). Any other measures to consider while building?

Got to stop typing - hurts.
Click to expand...

Interesting tool. Has anyone used an air cleco gun? Here's one from Avery for $89. I wonder how quick it engages/disengages, etc.

http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=20111
 
Wow, thought it was just me!

I was also diagnosed with this 6 months ago, squeezing clearly brings it on - clecos, tin snips, crimpers.............. Twenty or so treatments with an athletic therapist has not helped much. I started using a wide strap just below my right elbow and it helps a lot. I also changed to my left hand using the mouse. Didn't help a whole lot but haven't changed back.

Thanks for the tip about alfalfa, I'll try that but if I start chewing my cud its gonna be your fault!
 
aircraft are the best therapy?

ok, mine was caused by pruning juniper bushes, but same action with the shears as cleco'ing.
It lasted a year! finally I was getting bored with 'taking it easy' and yet still soemhow aggravating it. The darndest things, like typing or brushing my teeth were the worst!
Then one day, had to go to the airport and lay 40' of new paving stones in front of the main gear tracks. I wore my compression brace, but after 3 hours of solid hoeing dry turf, shovelling gravel and lifting 80-lb. paving slabs, I thought " I am SOOOO going to pay for this tomorrow!"
The next day, my elbow was 'GREAT!' According to my doctor, I had done 'self-surgery' which isn't all that uncommon. I likely stretched, pulled, and tore the ligament further off the bone, to the degree that it no longer tugged and aggravated the nerve, and became inflammed.
Now....a year after, I still know it's there, but it rarely causes pain...just gets a bit sore when shovelling snow or mowing the lawn.

Be aware there is a lot of B.S. floating around, and talking to an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in elbows or joints is a good idea.
Mine recommended giving it at least a year before considering surgery, which had another year wait list. ( with him, other surgeons could be found in a few weeks). taking glucosamine didn't really help me, but it can't hurt.
Cortisone shots just softens everything, and while promoting healing, also requires a lot of care and rehab to get everything back up to strength, as I understand it . YMMV
 
I experienced this also, but the worst pain was after bending the 3/8" fuel lines around the landing gear weldments. Hurt for a couple of weeks.
Resting it is the best medicine. I run regularly and had very painful achilles tendonitis in one heel. Bothered me for almost 2 years until I took a month off exercising due to biz travel and a vacation. It just needed time to heal.
 
I started to get tennis elbow early in the wing kit. I immediately bought an air cleco gun, and the problem gradually cleared up.

If you stop the activity that is causing the issue (best bet is the cleco pliers), then I bet you don't need to put the project on hold. Maybe give it a week off while you are waiting the air cleco gun to arrive, and then do short work sessions with frequent breaks for a while. Listen to your body.
 
lateral epicondylitis

is inflammation of the common extensor tendon. This tendon is created from all the smaller finger and wrist extensor muscles. It attaches to the outside bump on your elbow known as the lateral epicondyle. It is a common injury with repetitive hand and wrist use particularly with grip, squeezing,repetitive fine motor work such as mousing and typing. If this is a new symptom for you then rest, ice, compression (tennis elbow strap) and anti-inflammatory meds will help a-lot. If you had these symptoms for longer term or multiple episodes then it is likely a tendonopathy which is more traumatic in nature and would require specific intervention from your orthopedist and Physical Therapist. Many posts gave good advice: larger handles, mechanical assist (cleco tool), frequent rests, switch hands and hydrate. hope this helps. As a Physical Therapist I have treated countless cases.
 
Tendonosis...

...is what they diagnosed mine as. Probably caused by overuse of the mouse doing CAD at work on the computer, but no real solid diagnosis. Yep, really hurt! Thought I was going to have to buy an automatic car:eek: Doctors didn't help, but I taught myself to use my left hand on the mouse and eventually, after about a year, it went away and hasn't returned. This was before I started building, but one of my early tools was an air cleco tool. I use this especially for a large number of clecos, but still use the manual tool.

Good posture using the computer helps and a good chair is essential.
 
I'll weigh in here...

I'm an orthopod and I see this everyday just like Pat. Tennis elbow (lateral epicondylitis) is a repetitive motion injury. The pathology is microtears in the extensor muscle mass on the outer side of the elbow. They are the muscles responsible for power grip as well as finger and wrist extension. It is usually a self-healing process but can take over a year to resolve. Essentially, with the tears the normal tissue is replaced with an immature scar tissue called granulation tissue. When the granulation tissue converts to normal fibrous (scar) tissue, the pain resolves.

In the meantime, there is a loosely recommended protocol for treatment of this in order of aggressiveness.
1) Elbow strap: these usually have a pad of some sort attached to a velcro strap. The pad is placed an inch or two below (toward the wrist) the point of maximum tenderness. This serves to transfer the origin of the muscle from the lateral epicondyle to the pad and thus unloads the tear. Wear it during the day, not at night. Tighten the strap to give a snug fit. If your fingers swell or turn blue loosen the strap a little.

2) Physical therapy: this usually consists of stretching, ultrasound and electrical stimulation. Sometimes the therapist will use Cortisone cream in conjunction with the ultrasound or e-stim to propel the cortisone to the area of tendinitis. Some people may have heard of or will hear of anodyne treatments. I can't comment on this very well as it seems to fall in and out of favor from year to year.

3) Cortisone injections: these hurt like @$%#% but will give pretty good relief either temporary or occasionally permanently. The problem with cortisone when injected into an injured tendon is that it relieves the inflammation associated with the tear but it interferes with tendon healing and so it may actually prolong the healing process if not stop it completely. Conventional orthopaedic thought is that this should be tried when waiting, strapping and PT have not worked and the possibility of surgery is looming.

4) Surgery: the purpose of surgery is to cut out the granulation tissue and give a good repair of the tendon to normal tissue. Sometimes it requires shaving off some of the bone to allow a better reattachment of the tendon. This is done with a rasp. Recovery time can be 6-12 weeks to return to the activity that started it all to begin with. If it heals completely, it rarely recurs.

This is a very common condition as evidenced by the number of comments on this thread.

If you have other questions, either post here or send a PM although I'm not very diligent about checking that.

Bill Near
 
I don't have tennis elbow or cleco elbow. but earlier today, I was pulling my plane back into the hangar and both feet slipped out from under me on the ice. First thing to hit the ground were both elbows. :( While they are swollen and tender now, the pain is overcome by the sheer joy of todays flight....wish I didn't have to work tomorrow, I need more elbow therapy.:D
 
With apologies to the MD's out there, I'm a bit perplexed that no one has yet suggested Jim Beam, or Jack Daniels as a remedy!

It's the cogeners, doncha know! ;)
 
You can work through it if careful

You have gotten some good advice, especially from orthopod Bill Near. I got tendonitis in my left elbow while building my RV-8. Using clecos, tin snips, and squeezing rivets and other gripping activities seemed to cause the problem. I switched hands for these activities and always used a strap on my left arm and the left elbow got better after a few months. Then the right elbow came down with the same problem. For several months, both elbows were incredibly painful. However by wearing the brace and limiting gripping activities as much as possible, I managed to keep working on my plane and the elbows gradually healed themselves. Good luck.

Dan Miller
 
Air cleco gun to the rescue!

I had the usual discomfort associated with placing hundreds of clecoes in the -10. Cleveland tools has a great pistol shaped air cleco gun that makes it painless. $89 last I saw and well worth paying...and saving on the doc bills.
 
I had this as well, but it was on the inner side of my right elbow. It took a year to get to the point where handshakes didn't make me wince, and 2 years later I still notice it but it never gets as painful, or debilitating, as it was at first.

I also believe it occurred because of using the cleco pliers.

Tendon injuries take a *long* time to heal. If you think tennis elbow is bad, try plantar fasciitis!
 
I to had tennis elbow, not from building but countless hours on the computer and mouse. I am blaming it on tons of spread sheets and freaking game called Doom II. I went through the shots, ultrasound therapy but when it got to the point I couldn't hold a beer I relented to the surgery. I think they removed the scar tissue and ground down part of the bone related to the tendon. After about 4 months it was better than ever.

Mike
 
And i thought mine was because I was squeezing too hard.

The hand squeezer I used on the longer AD4 rivets drove me crazy with such a wide grip necessary on the handles. I guess it was really the cleco excercizing that brought mine on during the wing build. Cortizone shot took care of all my discomfort. I just ordered the air cleco tool. $89 is better than $109 Dr office visit.:)
 
watch the computer usage too!

Most posts have focused on the building process and how to alter use of the various tools for building. Those are all good comments but you did mention you work on computers all day too. If so, this is most likely the culprit that has brought on your pain.

If you have not done so already, you should alter how you work the mouse on your computer. There are ergonomic mice that work very well. You should look into changing to one of them. Also get a mouse pad that has the raised padding that supports your wrist. Lastly, when maneuvering the mouse try to support your lower arm from the elbow all the way to your wrist and keep your elbow tucked into your side as much as possible.

These are all things I had to change when I developed tennis elbow. I had all of the same symptoms you and others mentioned. The combination of working the cleco pliers when building and running a mouse all day at work did me in. It took well over a year before the pain subsided completely.

Good luck with getting through this painful ailment.
 
Got this same painful problem in both elbows that set in hard just as I was finishing up my wings. The pain was exacerbated by an un(timely) deep sea fishing run with my brother, who could be a Captain Ron substitute, 40 miles out to sea (R6 off Savannah). The two and a half hour runs each way there and back with my death grip on the t-top rails had me hurting pretty badly for a good while after that trip. No fish were in the Atlantic Ocean on that day either. Got home and immediately ordered the air cleco tool made by US Tool from ACS. Worked like a charm all during the fuse assembly and I never regretted buying. The air cleco tool and the Main Squeeze are two great tools to have around! The pain went away slowly over several months with occasional aspirin and guarded use of the cleco pliers.
 
Chiropractic treatment for this...

I'll add to what the MD's have said. A treatment option for lateral epicondylitis is a special muscle/tendon therapy called Active Release Technique that involves lengthening the muscle while applying pressure from the insertion site all the way to the tendons origination site. Couple this therapy with Ultrasound and you have a very effective non-invasive, non-drug way to treat this condition. I see it all the time in my office and we have a lot of success using this method. Activity modification (using the left instead of the right hand, purchasing a pneumatic cleco tool, etc.) and proper bracing are essential to getting better. As the MD's have mentioned, if a case is recalcitrant (doesn't respond to treatment) a good ole steroid injection usually does the trick. I personally know several gents in our local builders group who are having difficulties with this condition right now. One of the reasons this can be challenging to treat is that tendons don't have a good blood supply so they take awhile (up to 12 weeks) to heal...if they are allowed to heal.
Surgery should be an avenue of absolute last resort considering there are so many viable treatment methods. Just like using common sense and logic when building our planes use common sense and logic with this condition. If it hurts because you are using a mechanical cleco pliers with your right hand switch to the left or better yet spend the 80-100 bucks on a pneumatic cleco pliers. This alone is probably the most effective treatment for builders.
There...I've given you all an excuse to buy another tool.:D
 
An air cleco gun helps, so does a pneumatic rivet squeezer. I've had tendonitis in both elbows over the years and even though the cortisone shot makes the pain go away (I won't talk about the pain of the shot itself), you need to take it easy for a while. One orthopedist gave me a strap brace that anchored the arm tendon and took some strain off of the elbow. I have an issue with one thumb now (DeQuervain's syndrome), but I'm nearly done with the RV. Good luck.
 
Is it the RV building or the computers?

From the number of replies, it seems that RV building is a risk factor for tennis elbow - or is it? Steve (RVbySDI) correctly pointed out that I also work extensively with PCs - as do many other posters it seems. Another indicator that other causal factors played a bigger part is the fact that I am now over 1750 hours into this project and completed a set of SB wings as well as a SB fuse (well almost) before this problem cropped up. I suspect that a higher than normal percentage of us use computers for long periods of time, either because we are in technical jobs or because we are technically minded.

My big interest is in getting back to building as soon as it is wise to do so and avoiding a recurrence. There is lots of advice here, most of which can't hurt, to say the very least, and doesn't cost much. Obviously the cortizone and the surgery are to be avoided unless nothing else works over a long period. I hadn't heard of the alfalfa but I'm going to try it now. I am already working on most of the other ideas.

The thing that always worries me about a project as big as this is the loss of momentum. I notice that it can be difficult to actually start back after any period when your head gets 'outside' the project, even when you think you have been looking forward to it. Two months rest is plenty of time for other priorities to 'take over'.

Finally, I am grateful that nobody has commented on the plight of an Irishman without a functioning 'drinking arm'! According to our national stereotype, that would count as a disability over here.
 
Loman,
I'm no Dr. but will tell you what worked for me....

I have several gel ice packs, so with an Ace bandage I secured the gel pack to the sore place (had a paper towel between my skin and gel pack).
I did this for three hours for consecutive three nights, changing out the gel packs as they warmed.
My arm and hand got so cold they were numb.
It quickly relieved the pain and haven't had a recurrence for several years.

The aggressive icing worked for me would be worth a try before other more drastic treatments.

Hope it helps,

Glenn Wilkinson
 
epicondylitis

Try rubbing PENNSAID on painful area , as per directions on package . Should be available without prescription .( A NSAID plus DMSO ).
 
Had the same issues and put up with it on and off for years. I'm a contractor as my day job and so being active isn't the issue. Went to doc and he sent me to take physio. They were telling me to do things I do all day. Forget that foolishness. Talked to a neighbour and he said try acupuncture. Never tried that stuff before. Gave them a call and made an appointment for a consult. They listened to my problem, showed me what was going on and said probably one visit would fix it. Sceptic me thought ya right. Well I booked it and the app. was about an hour. They said it would take a couple days for the mussels to settle down. Amazingly everything cleared up within a couple days. Never had an issue since. I don't believe I put up with the pain so long when it was so easy to remedy. Some docs don't believe in this kind of treatment but it works and I'm a believer now. Give one a call and go for a consult. My consult was free and the treatment was $75. Well worth it believe you me.
 
Had the same issues and put up with it on and off for years. I'm a contractor as my day job and so being active isn't the issue. Went to doc and he sent me to take physio. They were telling me to do things I do all day. Forget that foolishness. Talked to a neighbour and he said try acupuncture. Never tried that stuff before. Gave them a call and made an appointment for a consult. They listened to my problem, showed me what was going on and said probably one visit would fix it. Sceptic me thought ya right. Well I booked it and the app. was about an hour. They said it would take a couple days for the mussels to settle down. Amazingly everything cleared up within a couple days. Never had an issue since. I don't believe I put up with the pain so long when it was so easy to remedy. Some docs don't believe in this kind of treatment but it works and I'm a believer now. Give one a call and go for a consult. My consult was free and the treatment was $75. Well worth it believe you me.
 
Neck Pain

When I was doing sheet metal work every night, I got a severe pain in my neck. I thought it was unrelated to building. My doc checked my neck and said it was not a nerve problem nor was it a blood/artery problem. He said it was a muscle problem and ask if I had changed my exercise activities. At that moment it occurred to me how hard I had been squeezing 1/8" rivets.

From then on, I gripped the squeezer at the end of the handles and adjusted the jaws to get the most mechanical advance. Shortly thereafter, the pain went away.

Ken Holcomb
N77KH
Ramona
 
I also acquired tendonitis in my right elbow. I'm certain that it was due to countless hours with the rivet squeezer early in construction. The Dr. injected me with cortizone directly into my elbow as I levitated off of the table!! Yes, it hurt. The cortizone masked the discomfort, but it came back with a vengeance a few months later. Following a few months of laying low, it went away-for good.

Jim
 
For tendon injuries/inflammation...

REMEMBER R I C E (RICE). Rest, Ice, Compress, Elevate. This is a well known acronym in the medical world. It is simple and will absolutely work. No meds, no medical bills/chiropractic bills, no shots, no surgery, no copay. Just quit using the dang muscle, compress it with a brace for epicondylitis, ice it to reduce inflammation. Repeat this for a while (up to three months). It will go away. The REST is absolutely crucial. The RICE method is a KISS approved form of tendonitis treatment (KISS=Keep It Simple Stupid!!). ;)
 
What Larry said...

I received mine yesterday and it works so well it made my elbow pain go away just looking at it. Seriously, it is an excellent tool I wish I spent the $ on earlier. Now, I suffer like many others. It does take 90 lbs or so and if you are combining it with a 30 psi rivet gun you need to be sure you have an adjustable air valve on the gun to step it down.
 
I just joined this club. I finished putting the rear spar on my wings and am working on the stands so I can start fitting skins. My elbow started hurting before I had all the ribs in place in the wings. I figured I had just twisted something wrong, but the pain got worse and was starting to hurt all the time. I went on a business trip to Europe and things didnt get worse, but they didn't get much better either. I have noticed within the last couple of days, though, that it isn't hurting all the time. I haven't picked up a cleco plier in two weeks and it now only hurts when I grip something and pick it up wrong.

I'm going to ease up on the build for a bit, get a strap for my arm and patiently await my pneumatic cleco tool. I'm also going to ask my left hand and arm to start sharing the load more. I'd like to fight through the pain and keep going, but logic simply says that is going to make it better.

Thanks for all the advice on this thread. My Dr. has better things to do than listen to me whine about my elbow.

Man, I sure hope there isn't "Flyers Elbow" or "Acro Elbow".
 
6 months later report....

two cortozone shots in the most tender part of my elbow 30 days apart and one in the shoulder. Religously tried to limit the isometric squeezes on the hand rivet tool, used the pneumatic cleco tool, and paid real close attention to when I was starting to stretch my luck. Back to 90 % but can locate and touch the sore spot still today. Should have used air pressure instead of muscle on these senior arms.....:)
 
Elbow

Similar situation a few years ago when squeezing a lot of wing rivets and repetitive cleco usage. Lost most mobility of my left arm. The Doc gave me a cortizone shot in the back of the elbow-think he rammed the needle entirely through my elbow!! Yes, it was VERY painful. Pain went away for a few months but came back with a vengeance. Laid low for awhile and it eventually healed. No problems for past few years.
Advice: Slow down during the stages where a lot of clecoing and rivet squeezing is reqd. It'll eventually get done

Jim Diehl N891DD
RV-7A
At the airport and getting ready for DAR
Lock Haven, Pa.
 
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