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Stroh21

Well Known Member
Hello VAF!

I've attempted to search the forums to find this answer, but I need a vector.

I've decided to either buy or build an RV-7 or RV-8 next year. I'm currently working on assessing the annual and monthly expenses associated with owning one of these fine birds. One topic I don't fully understand is what is required for an annual inspection for an experimental aircraft. From what I can tell, if I build my RV, I get a certificate allowing me to do the inspection myself. If I buy an already built aircraft, do I need an A&P to do the annual? If so, am I still looking at the $2000+ a year? I've read that individuals that built their own RV have their annual done for a few $100.

Thank you for the help!

Matt
 
You are mostly correct.

If you are the manufacturer, you can get a "Repairman's Certificate"for your creation. This allows you to perform the annual "Condition Inspection".

If you buy your plane than you can hire an A&P to perform the inspection. Typically, these run well under $1000. A lot of that has to do with what the A&P finds. (No IA is required, aa with a certified plane.)

You can do most of the labor and RV parts are not anywhere near as expensive as certified parts, if you need them.
 
Hi Matt,

Unless things have changed in the last few months, here you go:

*Anyone* can do repairs and/or maintenance (doesn't apply to annual condition inspections) on an experimental homebuilt.

If you build it, and the FAA agrees that you learned enough from building it to inspect it (not guaranteed but likely), then they will issue you a 'repairman's (person's?) certificate to perform the annual condition inspection on *only* that particular a/c (it's not 'airworthiness'; that only applies to 'factory' planes).

If you buy it, then the original builder/repairman cert. holder, or any certificated aircraft maintenance person holding at least an A&P ticket, can do the annual condition inspection.

Cost is likely to be all over the geographical and financial map. I've done all my own maintenance on my purchased experimentals over the years, and never paid more than $200 for an 'annual' inspection (excluding actual repairs and maintenance done at the time of the annual). Others, in other parts of the country or who want the A&P or IA to do all the work, have probably paid many times that much. Ask around at your local EAA chapter and decide how much of the work you can trust yourself to do. It's not difficult, but until you learn the plane, experienced guidance would be advisable. I will say that the RV's (and a few other 1 & 2 seat homebuilts) are some of the simplest and easiest to inspect and maintain. And unless you're a much better man (person?) that most of us, you won't build one 'this year'. But you can probably buy one this year. :)

Hope that covers it; maybe someone who's a pro can jump in.

Charlie
 
I'd suggest you base you "build vs buy" on a different question - "do you want to build an airplane to experience building one?" or "do you want to build an airplane because you want to fly?" If the latter, then buy an airplane.

To your original question ...

I'm a buyer not a builder. I've had four condition inspections done. Even with me doing all the disassembly, oil change, and providing helper duties, each of those condition inspections had been 12-14 hours of A&P labor.

Different A&P's, different parts of the country, demand, and whether it's their day job or a sideline - all these will affect the rate you pay.

That being said, the things you can do bring the cost down from a typical certified aircraft's annual inspection.
 
humptybump said:
I'd suggest you base you "build vs buy" on a different question - "do you want to build an airplane to experience building one?" or "do you want to build an airplane because you want to fly?" If the latter, then buy an airplane.
Click to expand...

I'd like to build a plane...but time is a consideration. I may end up doing both. Buy one for now and also start building one. With my schedule and lifestyle, I expect the build to take 3-4 years.

I am interested in other RV'ers to chime in on what their annual operating expenses run. I'm still trying to get a ballpark figure on operating cost. Assume flying 10 hours a month.
 
Stroh21 said:
I'd like to build a plane...but time is a consideration. I may end up doing both. Buy one for now and also start building one. With my schedule and lifestyle, I expect the build to take 3-4 years.

I am interested in other RV'ers to chime in on what their annual operating expenses run. I'm still trying to get a ballpark figure on operating cost. Assume flying 10 hours a month.
Click to expand...

Oil change every 25 hours is about $60, gas figure 9 gph average. I put away $10/hr for the motor, $10/hr for surprises. Mine only has 100 hours on it, so no major repairs yet...

Hangar, insurance, etc is going to be specific to your location and experience.

If you can find a good A&P that will do a owner assisted annual (or better yet just do a full inspection once you've done the work), that may only be a few hundred bucks.

The annual is the long pole in the tent, some A&P's won't touch an experimental.

All things being equal, you'll come out ahead buying vs building. Very few if any RV's sell for what is put into them.
 
same

I have the same thoughts as you. I know I want to build an RV-8 but I am a low time pilot (less than 200hrs). I would like to buy something flying and then take the time to do a slow build. I'm also interested in the information you seek with the addition of my thoughts of buying an "A" model. I don't have any tail wheel time and wonder how that would affect insurance rates. My thoughts are that a nose wheeler would be better to build time in.

Don't mean to hijack the thread so please answer the OP's info and take mine as secondary.

Thanks!
 
My experience is that your biggest fixed cost will be hangar rent.

You can usually find an A&P willing to work and instruct you for the annual condition inspection. Find one that is familiar with owner assisted "annuals" and preferably one who has done RV or experimental condition inspections before.

I hope to be an RV builder one day, don't have time right now. And I agree with the previous poster that you can buy for close to or less than you would spend to build.

And VAF is your best resource.
 
humptybump said:
I'd suggest you base you "build vs buy" on a different question - "do you want to build an airplane to experience building one?" or "do you want to build an airplane because you want to fly?" If the latter, then buy an airplane.
Click to expand...

I'd like to reinforce Glen's advice. Build because you want your custom airplane, or because you're a gearhead, or because an ankle bracelet keeps you around the house. Building just to avoid a moderate A&P outlay is like buying a dealership just so you can get a free oil change.
 
Come visit 8A7 and see

Matt,
I am builder owner of and RV-4 in central NC at Twin Lakes (8A7). There are 8 RV's at our field,4, 7,8,9s and a Rocket. I am also an AP/IA as well as a couple others here. Id be glad to give you the nickel tour of an RV and help you make up your mind. A "build" is a serious commitment, and there are some nice planes out there for sale if you are ready to start flying now. Feel free to come over some weekend. I live on the airport and almost always here.
 
I do quite a few RV annuals/condtion inspections every year so here's my 2c:

First time annuals thru my shop are generally higher than average, mainly based on build quality, and trust me, this can vary significantly in the RV world (a good pre-buy inspection will help avoid the first annnul "sticker shock").

Average cost for an annual the second time thru with minimal repairs generally runs around $1200-$1500. (flat insp fee of $799 plus a 3-4 hours labor for repairs plus parts).

Things like tires, magneto overhauls, carb overhauls, fuel tank repairs, IFR certs etc. can all drive the cost of the annual inspection up over the 2K range quite easily. So if you budget for a 2K annual and it comes in less than that great, but trust me it won't always.

I'm not a big fan of owner assisted inspections for various reasons which I won't go into here.
 
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Walt said:
I do quite a few RV annuals every year so here's my 2c:

First time annuals thru my shop are generally higher than average, mainly based on build quality, and trust me, this can vary significantly in the RV world (a good pre-buy inspection will help avoid the first annnul "sticker shock").

Average cost for an annual the second time thru with minimal repairs generally runs around $1200-$1500. (flat insp fee of $799 plus a 3-4 hours labor for repairs plus parts).

Things like tires, magneto overhauls, carb overhauls, fuel tank repairs, IFR certs etc. can all drive the cost of the annual inspection up over the 2K range quite easily. So if you budget for a 2K annual and it comes in less than great, but trust me it won't always.

.
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I would add one other angle on this discussion. A Condition Inspection (or "annual" as many are calling it) is just an inspection. As Walt said, the INSPECTION may cost several hundred dollars. The rest of the money spent during the CI is for other stuff, and often these are issues that could have been fixed or addressed a couple or few months earlier, and some of them are issues that can be safely postponed for a couple months if money is a big issue at that moment.

Having said that, I think that if your make-or-break point is the cost of the Condition Inspection, then owning and operating any airplane is going to be a financial struggle. Costs of hangar, insurance, oil, filters, tires, brakes, and fuel will far out-weigh the CI cost each year.....and, as Walt said, "Things like tires, magneto overhauls, carb overhauls, fuel tank repairs, IFR certs etc. can all drive the cost" up (if done at the time of the CI).
 
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Having said that, I think that if your make-or-break point is the cost of the Condition Inspection, then owning and operating any airplane is going to be a financial struggle. Costs of hangar, insurance, oil, filters, tires, brakes, and fuel will far out-weigh the CI cost each year.....and, as Walt said, "Things like tires, magneto overhauls, carb overhauls, fuel tank repairs, IFR certs etc. can all drive the cost" up (if done at the time of the CI).
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Another poster suggested that hangar rent was the biggest cost - What about State Taxes? That's a big factor here in Georgia.
John
 
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