[Webb]

How many hours before you considered your engine broken in and started backing off on it?

How many hours before you did your first oil change?

How many hours before you installed gear and leg fairings?

 

[Ron Lee]

Check your engine builder break in instructions first

My first oil change was at about two hours then another 8-10 hours..included filter.

 

[guccidude1]

Engine break in

I ran my O-360, FP, on mineral oil for 10 hours before changing oil and filter, then 15 more hours, another oil and filter change. At that point, I poured in AeroShell 100 and now have 182 hours on the engine. I use a quart approximately every 10 hours and normal oil/filter change is 50 hours. Dan

 

[Webb]

Just Wondering

Check your engine builder break in instructions first

My first oil change was at about two hours then another 8-10 hours..included filter.

I have checked the manual but it seems that no two builders did it the same as they babied their baby with most more conservative (and I don't blame them).

I will definately follow my instructions.

I'm most curious on the other two questions.

 

[Tony Spicer]

See this, courtesy of Randy Lervold:

http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Engine/engine.html#EngineBreakIn

Leaving all the fairings off while running high power settings will slow things down a bit.

Leaving all the fairings off while you learn to land will reduce repair time.

Tony

 

[Kahuna]

How many hours before you considered your engine broken in and started backing off on it?

How many hours before you did your first oil change?

How many hours before you installed gear and leg fairings?

1.Its not you that considers the engine broke in.
It either is or isnt.
With most applications, and please check your particular manufacturer, its when the oil consuption drops and when the CHT's lower. ITs when the rings are seated. When they do, oil consumption drops and you see a significant drop in cht's due to lower heat being produced. A good engine monitor of all cylinders makes this a cool thing to watch.
Its usually between ~1 & 5 hours but I have only done this on a dozen new engines so my experience is pretty limited.
2. Most applications are 10, 25, 50 with you coming off the mineral oil at 50.
again, read the book.
3. Does not really matter. some on first flight, some are still not on after a thousand hours. Its not material to the first question.

 

[Webb]

Manual Weak

1.Its not you that considers the engine broke in.
It either is or isnt.
With most applications, and please check your particular manufacturer, its when the oil consuption drops and when the CHT's lower. ITs when the rings are seated. When they do, oil consumption drops and you see a significant drop in cht's due to lower heat being produced. A good engine monitor of all cylinders makes this a cool thing to watch.
Its usually between ~1 & 5 hours but I have only done this on a dozen new engines so my experience is pretty limited.
2. Most applications are 10, 25, 50 with you coming off the mineral oil at 50.
again, read the book.
3. Does not really matter. some on first flight, some are still not on after a thousand hours. Its not material to the first question.

#1 As far as break-in, you've given me more specific info than I've been able to find. The 1-5 hours is an experience answer that I haven't seen written. I'll be keeping a close eye on the engine monitor for that conversion.

#2 You've given me more info than the manual. My manual good on how to fly the engine for breaking but I can only find info on initial oil (MO) and regular oil. Not do this at 10 hours, 15 hours, etc.... It does list 25 hour inspection, 50 hr, etc... I'll keep looking for specifics but did not see it on a quick once over this morning. I've also heard/seen, 1st change at 2, 5, 10 and second at 10, 15, and 25.

#3 - Sorta associated with break-in. Running hard for seating rings but trying to keep plane a bit slower.

Thanks again - I appreciate the info. Makes it easier to hunt down more later on.

 

[RV10inOz]

DO NOT BABY THE ENGINE!!!!!!

Run it hard, and just be mindful of temps.

Circuits are very good for running engines it, full power climbs followed by a cooling period followed by a missed approach or touch and go if you need the practise, and then climb at full power.

Keep the power above 75% as much as you can, just not too steep a climb so that you keep CHT's in check.

do this for 25 hours and you will be half way there to having a good reliable engine.

If you are doing cross country runs, keep it below 5000' and keep the power in, but in the forst 5 hours do lots of climb, level out, let speed/ cooling build up and go again. 2 min climb, and 2-4 level, climb again.

You get the idea I am sure.

DO NOT BABY YOUR ENGINE!!!!!!

DB

 

[Webb]

Spank the Baby

DO NOT BABY THE ENGINE!!!!!!

Run it hard, and just be mindful of temps.

Circuits are very good for running engines it, full power climbs followed by a cooling period followed by a missed approach or touch and go if you need the practise, and then climb at full power.

Keep the power above 75% as much as you can, just not too steep a climb so that you keep CHT's in check.

do this for 25 hours and you will be half way there to having a good reliable engine.

If you are doing cross country runs, keep it below 5000' and keep the power in, but in the forst 5 hours do lots of climb, level out, let speed/ cooling build up and go again. 2 min climb, and 2-4 level, climb again.

You get the idea I am sure.

DO NOT BABY YOUR ENGINE!!!!!!

DB

You don't have to worry about me rocking the baby. My biggest issue was I couldn't find hours on oil changes in the instruction manual. It was very specific about breaking in the engine, but severely lacking on when to change the oil.

I'll post the break-in instructions tonight for those that haven't gotten an engine yet and others can add/take away from the recommendations.

Regarding oil change times, the Superior engine was bench run before delivered. Based on that and what I've read, I'm planning on a 5 hour, 15 hour, and 25 hour change with mineral oil. Then at 50 hours, coming off mineral oil unless anyone out there has a better plan. I'm also going to call Eagle Engines to get their recommendations.

Since I'm going to have to buy an initial and 3 changes (plus 4 filters), any suggestions where to buy 3 cases of mineral oil and filters. Might as well order now because it's not long now till grinning.

 

[Kahuna]

I forgot to add.
Its manifold pressure and heat that seats the rings. the above post is exactly right. Run the bejesus out of it. take off with everything fwd, and dont touch the black and blue knobs.
Stay as low as you can safely stand it. Again its MP not RPM that seats the rings. RPM helps create the heat. Every thousand feet of altitude is hurting your chances of breakin. I cant tell you howmany pilots have gone to 6k feet cause they feel safe, and never got their rings broken in, and had to pull all jugs, rehone, new rings, start over. Dont be that guy!

As for richness, my technique is to lean to ~100ROP as long as the CHTs stay below 450. If they cant, Ill richen to put to ~450. That heat and friction, along with the high MP, is the secret sauce.

 

[Webb]

I forgot to add.
Its manifold pressure and heat that seats the rings. the above post is exactly right. Run the bejesus out of it. take off with everything fwd, and dont touch the black and blue knobs.
Stay as low as you can safely stand it. Again its MP not RPM that seats the rings. RPM helps create the heat. Every thousand feet of altitude is hurting your chances of breakin. I cant tell you howmany pilots have gone to 6k feet cause they feel safe, and never got their rings broken in, and had to pull all jugs, rehone, new rings, start over. Dont be that guy!

As for richness, my technique is to lean to ~100ROP as long as the CHTs stay below 450. If they cant, Ill richen to put to ~450. That heat and friction, along with the high MP, is the secret sauce.

Low altitude is not a problem in middle Mississippi. I'm not far from the Delta and I plan on asking the DAR to give me an area that let's me go mostly to the west and I can stay around 1500 safely until rings seat.

As far as RPM, shouldn't I knock that back to below 2600 or so?? MP understood but blue knob to the wall is like driving 60 in first gear.

 

[Webb]

Superior's Break-In Flight Operation

From the manual as promised:

#1 - Perform normal pre-flight and run-up in accordance with engine operators manual. Only cycle prop to 100rpm drop if CS prop. Keep ground runs to minimum.

#2 - Conduct normal take-off at full power, full rich to safe altitude.

#3 - Maintain shallow climb, use caution and not overheat the cylinders. Should overheating occur, reduce power and adjust mixture. (should probably add to reduce angle of climb too)

#4 - Monitor RPM, oil pressure, oil temp and cyclinder temp

#5 - During the first hour of operation, maintain 75% power. Vary the power setting every 15 minutes of second hour between 65% and 75%.

#6 - Avoid long descents at cruise RPM and low manifold pressure (could cause ring flutter).

#7 - After landing checks for fuel/oil leaks or other issues

#8 - Continue flying at 65-75% power and lean to approx 75F rich of peak EGT on susequents flughts until rings have seated, oil comsumption stabilizes, and CHT drops. This is a sign that cylinders are broken in.

#9 - After break-in oil may be changed to ashless dispersent of the proper grade.

#10 - At no time should CHT be allowed to exceed oringal airframe equip manufacturer recommended max cruise limit.

Caution - Break-in of an engine in frigid conditions can lead to cylinder glazing and failed break-in due to low oil temp. It is recommended that oil temp be maintained between 180 and 190 F.

 

[Webb]

Now comes the stupid question(s)

Since we are on engine break-in, please define "Pre-Oil" for me.

Does this mean draining the shipping oil and making sure the engine is filled with oil you are going to break in the engine? (ie: don't run an engine without oil stupid)

Also, does this mean turning it a few times with no spark so you can push the air out of the line that feeds the oil pressure sensor? (after you loosen the connection so it the air bleeds out)

Am I missing something or am I trying to make something out of the obvious?

Anything else??

 

[Webb]

Kahuna - PM for you

Kahuna - PM for you

 

[Kahuna]

Since we are on engine break-in, please define "Pre-Oil" for me.

Does this mean draining the shipping oil and making sure the engine is filled with oil you are going to break in the engine? (ie: don't run an engine without oil stupid)

Also, does this mean turning it a few times with no spark so you can push the air out of the line that feeds the oil pressure sensor? (after you loosen the connection so it the air bleeds out)

Am I missing something or am I trying to make something out of the obvious?

Anything else??

"Also, does this mean turning it a few times with no spark so you can push the air out of the line that feeds the oil pressure sensor? (after you loosen the connection so it the air bleeds out)"
Yes.
There are some debatable ways to do this. IMHO, plugs out, crank with starter till you have oil pressure. Done

Best,

 

[Steve Sampson]

Webb, I have an engine from Aerosport power which I am about to break in, but no manual. Did you get your engine from Superior with one?

What does it say about frequency of the early oil changes?

Thanks, Steve.

 

[Webb]

Manual

Webb, I have an engine from Aerosport power which I am about to break in, but no manual. Did you get your engine from Superior with one?

What does it say about frequency of the early oil changes?

Thanks, Steve.

Steve,
My engine came from Eagle Engines in California. What I put above was directly from break-in (minus a few words for brevity) section of the manual.
If you want, I can fax both sides of the page to you. That's all there is in it but the break-in procedure is above. Let me know if you want me to send it.

I talked with Kahuna on the phone today and it was very helpful. Bottom line is one the engine is broken in, it's broken in and you could change to AD then. Most don't and go a higher number of hours. I think I'll run it for 5 hours, change the oil with mineral oil, run it to about 15 hours. If temps are down and oil consumption is correct, I'll change over AD

The superior info only says after break-in, you can switch oils. I might go a smidge longer. Also, the engine was bench run and is probably close to broken in now but we'll see.

As far as break in, here is what I'm planning after reading and talking with Kahuna:

Run the living **** out of the engine. Manifold full, prop full rpm and mix about 75 to 100 rich of peak. Watch the engine monitor to drop. Because of bench running, mine may only drop 10-20 degrees. Newer run around 50 degrees drop. I'll also look at getting my oil temp up to about 180-190 degrees. I also live near the Mississippi Delta and I can safely fly at 1500 feet. He also mentioned not to ground run more than about 5 minutes. Once you have it broken in, you can pull it back most anyway you need to.

I also think that I will go ahead and put the fairings on since it is a tricycle instead of a tail dragger. Good to get the air moving through the cowl because of how hard I'm going to run the engine. I'm not worried about learning to land the tricycle since I fly Bonanzas, a Cherokee 6, and a couple of different Cessna's right now.

I think that I'll have Kahuna do my initial for me and have him treat it on the nasty side so it will ready for me to rock and roll. He's not that far away.

In common terms - fly the engine like you think the FBO renting it would have a heart attack (LOL).

 

[grover]

pre oil

I hand-propped it w/o plugs in until oil pressure gauge (temp. mechanical plumbed in) read pressure. took a while, but after cracking the fitting on the gage it worked well. after that, cranked w/ starter a little and the pressure went up to normal for a cold engine. at first start, pressure came up quickly.

 

[Ron Lee]

On my rebuild I had the typical high oil temps (232ish deg F) initially. After some hours that came down. The CHT never got above 400 deg F.

My take off DA was around 8000 feet.

Then at around 80 hours or so the oil consumption was still around 6 hours per quart. On a trip east I was climbing out of Key West (sea level) and the CHT got to around 425 deg F before I reduced power. Soon thereafter (during that trip) the oil consumption was about 9 hours per quart. Hmmmm.

So I flew to Death Valley to get more high CHT and pressure and now my oil consumption is around 15 hours per quart (still assessing it)

 

[Steve Sampson]

If you want, I can fax both sides of the page to you. That's all there is in it but the break-in procedure is above. .

Webb, thats a kind offer but I dont have FAX technology. If its as easy for you to scan and email an image , please, to [email protected]. Otherwise just tell me exactly what your pages say about oil and filter changes in the early hours.

Thanks, Steve.

 

[Webb]

Oil change

Webb, thats a kind offer but I dont have FAX technology. If its as easy for you to scan and email an image , please, to [email protected]. Otherwise just tell me exactly what your pages say about oil and filter changes in the early hours.

Thanks, Steve.

I kid you not, it says what I put on line #9 - After break-in oil may be changed to ashless dispersent of the proper grade.

It's another one of those nights that I woke up early at 4:15. My bride is the master of the scanner and after she gets up and has her coffee, I'll get her to copy it so I can send it to you.

While I'm at it, do you need anything else from the book?

One last thing I ran across, the diagram in my book and the pictures from thrreads on VAF show the position of the mag wires in a 90 degree rotation from their actual position on the mag. If you look at the mag (providing you have slick mags), #1 is marked on the cap and the plug nuts are stamped appropriately. I went nuts to find this one out because what I had in hand didn't match the diagrams I had read. Yours may be different but there were several folks that had the same issue. I think I'm going to start a new thread on when the book and reality do not match for help to others.

 

[Steve Sampson]

When the 'scanner mistres' has a moment I will be delighted. The info I was looking for was the frequency of oil and filter changes in those early hours. Thanks, Steve.

 

[goosepool]

Engine manual

Webb, I have an engine from Aerosport power which I am about to break in, but no manual. Did you get your engine from Superior with one?

What does it say about frequency of the early oil changes?

Thanks, Steve.

Steve

If you call into the shop I can let you borrow my engine manual, which I got from Eagle with my new engine.

regards

Stan

 

[Webb]

Sorry

When the 'scanner mistres' has a moment I will be delighted. The info I was looking for was the frequency of oil and filter changes in those early hours. Thanks, Steve.

I got busy with wiring and totaly forgot to ask her to do that. Spent about 18 hours this weekend on wiring. I'll get it out to you tomorrow - she's has "retired" for the evening (results of too much fun last evening).