R

rgmwa

Well Known Member
I've just bolted the rudder pedal assembly into the fuselage tub so it seemed like a good occasion to sit in the `plane' for the first time, survey the landscape of the workshop from the `cockpit' while cruising at benchtop height and zero knots, and practice my prototype Van's grin. I'm pleased to report that all went well ;).

However, I find that the brake pedals (WD1209) prevent my feet from touching the rudder pedals cleanly. In other words, I can't seem to avoid hitting the brake pedal before touching the rudder pedal, at least not with my feet held reasonably upright. Maybe a flat footed position would work, but it's not particularly comfortable.

Now, maybe I have unusually clumsy or large feet (although I don't think so), and I admit that the tops of my brake pedals are about 5/16" further aft than the plans would like (don't ask :( ), but even so, I'm surprised at the apparent interference.

My questions are:

1. Is this normal and is it a problem? Do the brake pedals get adjusted later (haven't been able to find it in the plans if they do).

2. Should I replace my current WD1209's with new ones, drilled to match the plans so they don't lean aft by 5/16". Even so, my feet would still hit the brakes before the rudders, judging by the current setup.

3. What would happen if I brought the rudder pedals forward by about an inch. That would probably suit the length of my legs better and also position the tops of the brake pedal where they should be in relation to the front of the rudder pads. (ie. make the rudder stop 13-3/8" long rather than 14-3/8" as per the plans). However, I'm concerned that doing this may adversly affect the rigging or rudder travel.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated, especially if they are confined to technical matters rather than comments on physique or other personal attributes. :)
 
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One option

One slick fix for the aft brake pedal angle, or "tilt", is to buy GROVE master cylinders that have adjustable length shafts on them. That way you have complete control of how the brake pedal sets in relation to the rudder pedal bar on the bottom, even after installation......
 
One option

One slick fix for the aft brake pedal angle, or "tilt", is to buy GROVE master cylinders that have adjustable length shafts on them. That way you have complete control of how the brake pedal sets in relation to the rudder pedal bar on the bottom, even after installation......

http://groveaircraft.com/mcpush.html Notice that each shaft has a threaded portion on the end, which allows the adjustment.

Not affiliated with Grove, just a happy customer.

A shorter or longer link from the rudder pedal tab to the rudder cable will not alter the rigging, other than to move the bottom of the pedals aft or forward. Just make sure you still have full rudder throw both ways.
 
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rgmwa,
1. It could be a problem if you can not apply full rudder without braking. No, there is no adjustment later.
2. Replacing the current WD1209's with new ones, properly drilled, will help. They only cost a fraction of 1 AMU (Aviation Monetary Unit). :D
3. Do NOT change the rudder rigging. Others have installed thicker homemade PEDAL BLOCKS successfully.
Joe Gores
 
Tilt

I think my pedals are installed correctly. And I still find I have to consciously bend my ankles back on take off to prevent touching the brakes. Not really noticeable until the plane is light on the tyres just prior to liftoff at which point I can get a vibration - which I guess is actually the tyre skidding on the tarmac. Only lasts a second but is irritating.

Cheers...Keith
 
I ordered shorter rudder cables from Spruce. Worked great but I don,t want to give length as I don't want to be responsible.

Ron Russ RV12 Viking
 
It all depends on you!

However, I find that the brake pedals (WD1209) prevent my feet from touching the rudder pedals cleanly. In other words, I can't seem to avoid hitting the brake pedal before touching the rudder pedal, at least not with my feet held reasonably upright. Maybe a flat footed position would work, but it's not particularly comfortable.
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Rgmwa, my partner and I had the same problem. This may not happen to everyone. There hasn't been much discussion on this in the form so I assume not everybody has this problem. IMHO it depends a lot upon the size of the person flying the plane and their own personal preference. Also if you have the Flightline interior carpet installed it lifts your heel off the floor about 1 3/4 inches and makes it worse.

1. Is this normal and is it a problem? Do the brake pedals get adjusted later (haven't been able to find it in the plans if they do).
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Again yes and no. It was a problem for us so after flying the plane for a while we changed our brake petals to tilt farther forward. We like them much better now especially in a cross wind landing. And no the brake petals don't get adjusted later. If you have completed section 27 page 3 then Im afraid its to late for you.:(

Should I replace my current WD1209's with new ones, drilled to match the plans so they don't lean aft by 5/16". Even so, my feet would still hit the brakes before the rudders, judging by the current setup.
Click to expand...

Yes this is what you should do to get a perfect fit for you. Those brake petals are $22.00 US each, ask me how I know.:eek: What you want to do is adjust the brake petals farther forward so when your heels touch the rudders petals, you are not touching the brake petals. or just barely touching, you will have to figure out what works best for you. This set up can be a bit tricky. I will tell you that when your brake becomes functional and with new brake pads the brake petals only squish about a 1/4 inches or .635 Centimters. As the brake pads wears down then the brake petals will squish more. IMHO I dont think the squish more then say 3/8 in or .9525 CM when set up correctly. Why am I telling you these numbers, cause if you adjust the petals to far forward then in a crosswind when you have a rudder petal pushed all the way forward and then depress the brake you will bottom out and hit the fire wall with the petal.;)

What would happen if I brought the rudder pedals forward by about an inch. That would probably suit the length of my legs better and also position the tops of the brake pedal where they should be in relation to the front of the rudder pads. (ie. make the rudder stop 13-3/8" long rather than 14-3/8" as per the plans). However, I'm concerned that doing this may adversely affect the rigging or rudder travel.
Click to expand...

The answer to this question is stated above, you will hit the firewall in a cross wind while braking. What I suggest is to wait till you are all done building and the plane is flying then order the the new brake petals(WD1209) then drill them so that they fit you perfectly. Here is a hint when you do this. Please no criticism from the peanut gallery.
Take a dermal tool and route out the hole you have already drilled in the brake petal to an oval. Make it a little longer each time until you have the perfect fit for you. What you are doing is turning the hole into a slot. Then put the bolt back in and try it, repeat until the perfect fit is achieved and you don't hit the fire wall when brake is fully engaged. Don't route the hole in part WD1211. After all done then transfer this new hole location to the new pedals. You will be able to do all this with the rudder petals installed. Any questions email me. Good luck.
 
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Thanks all ...

Thanks for the replies everybody. Very helpful as always.

Keith and John / Glad to hear it's not just my imagination, and that you have both experienced some issues with brake pedal clearance. I guess there must be others out there as well.

John, my comment on moving the rudder pedals forward may have been misleading. I should have said aft, which would provide more clearance to the firewall (as Ron (Avenger V) did by using shorter rudder cables). Thanks for those numbers too. I was wondering how much pedal movement would be needed to activate the brakes.

Anyway, I plan to order some new brake pedals because I'm not happy with their current position, which is slightly too far aft anyway. I will have the Flightline interior installed, and as I don't want to keep tripping over the brakes, I'll do a little experimenting with the final brake pedal setup.

Joe / I'm always wary of deviating from the plans unless I'm sure I understand all the implications, so I'll probably leave the rudder pedals in their intended position, although it would be easy to use shorter links on the cable (or perhaps drill a series of holes in them to allow for some adjustment) in order to move the pedals aft a little more.

PC Hunt / Good suggestion but I've got the Matcos now, so I'll spend the money on new brake pedals instead.
 
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I was surprised nobody had mentioned this earlier, I know of several who have done this with good results as far as I know. Would seem to be far easier than stringing shorter cables or fitting new pedals. Comments anyone?.

rgmwa said:
Thanks for the replies everybody. Very helpful as always.
although it would be easy to use shorter links on the cable (or perhaps drill a series of holes in them to allow for some adjustment) in order to move the pedals aft a little more.
.
Click to expand...
 
Was flying this morning, remembered - -

P1000296.jpg

P1000297.jpg


Went flying this morning. Remembered to take these pictures for reference. I am 6' tall, and have the seat back far as it will go. I have both provided cushions in seat. The brake pedal position works very good for me.

John Bender
368.4 hours
 
Imagine this scenario!

John that looks good for you but imagine your heels resting 2 inches higher and then extending your leg all the way to the firewall and your toe would naturally move forward of your heel. Flightline interior carpet would lift your heel up to this height.;)
 
Apparently - you have not been paying close attention - - -

That is my "HEATER DAMPER DOOR" control. Go back thru the search if interested. Yesterday it was 27F in Iowa, and the heater works great. Nice of you to notice ! !

John Bender
368.4 hours
 
Jetguy - -

My Home Depot indoor/outdoor carpet is only maybe 1/4" thick. Ain't my problem man ! ! !

John Bender
 
cheap carpet

Be wary John. I did the same, bought some cheap synthetic carpet, cut it to fit and it looked great. Got to thinking about fire safety so I cut a sliver off the edge of some scrap, hung it on a wire and lit it. A tiny flame became an 8 inch torch in seconds, with drips of burning molten plastic falling to the ground.
Out went the carpet. I cut the supplied wing walk adhesive material into 4 strips and fixed it to the painted metal floor. I think it looks fine (echos the foot pads up a level) and is easy to clean.
Rod
 
Good point Rod - -

Have some left over to trial burn. Maybe a thin rubber mat of sorts might be less flammable.

John Bender
 
Question..

Would anyone be able to tell me how much gap there is between the back of the rudder pedal and the firewall when the rudder is fully deflected?
Thanks in advance.
 
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