[Bryan Wood]

Just wondering? Seeing the value of our RV's on the resale market sometimes makes me start to think of turning mine over and buying a Bonanza, or a Comanche. There I said it, and it felt really dirty. Anyway, I was wondering if anybody else has these terrible thoughts. Anybody willing to admit it if they do? Part of the reason that I built an RV is because of the prices of anything that I wanted to own was out of my reach at the time. Now with the high prices that RV's command a pretty nice retract isn't a stretch. The problem is... Oh this feels so wrong even to think, but is it normal?

Bryan

 

[cjensen]

i sell certy'd airplanes for a living, and there's no way i'd go back to owning one. having owned a couple in the past, i just can't justify the cost of maintaining one now since starting my rv project and learning the advantages here. i think your thoughts are normal though (just don't act on 'em!). just look at what it costs to own and maintain a bonanza or commanche. prices to replace ANYTHING that breaks are an average of 5 times as much as anything we can build and fly. i would love to sell you my B36TC that i've had for sale for a year, but if you're flying an RV, stick with it man...snap out of it!

no offense to anyone owning and flying anything other than an experimental.

 

[Captain_John]

Blasphemy it is.

It goes against everything experimental/custom/homebuilt!

Me? I am building my plane to own forever!

CJ

 

[1911pilot]

Maybe if you were an A&P IA. One of the big reasons I got into building was to be able to do my own maintainence. Like CJ I'm planning on owning mine forever.

Jeff

 

[Highflight]

Not blasphemy really because we all should do what floats our boat, including selling your RV to buy a boat if that does it for you.

But I can't imagine why in the world you'd want to sell a flying RV to go certified because:

To get the same performance out of a GA AC, you'd almost have to go with one that has retracts and a bigger engine. Lot's more cost and complexity for the same performance doesn't make too much sense if you're already flying an RV. More seats could be nice, but with aircraft, the mission is what dictates the number of seats (and other features) so it also doesn't make much sense to fly around 2 or 4 more EMPTY seats 90%+ of the time if you have no need for them. For the money you save with your RV over time, you could get checked out in a Mirage for those few times you need the extra seats.

You lose your A&P status unless you're a "real" A&P. Nuf' said.

I've flown with a friend in his Bonanza recently (the first time I had been in one) and was surprised how small the cabin was. It turns out that the Bonanza has 1" LESS shoulder room than an RV7.

These are just things off the top of my head.

 

[tacchi88]

Blesphamy

I have all the required alphabets to service my own airplanne, I sold my Arrow, though not an RV, but one hell of a nice airplane, simply to get away from the lunacy of certified AC. I'm sure that there are those on this chat that cringe, as I do, at the idea of having been able to "improve" a certified AC, but could not justify the scrutany, the beauracracy, nor the lunacy of the governing body which rules flying.
We don't have it as badly as our friends abraod have, still, the most modest change requires an act of God.
In addition, when I began assembling my RV10, I could see how a small company can build a kit that anyone with any sort of manual skill can assemble, and I ask myself, why can't GA do this?. Answer is easy, beauracracy. This includes the dynosaurs engines we are also forced to use, but there in lies the advantage of homebuilding. we can "tweak" our dynosaurs any way we please.
Would I ever go back to a GA bird? No way, Jose.
T88
RV10
N968TP

 

[billorv7]

blasphemy

Bryan,
I still have (almost) wet dreams about the Bonanza I sold several years ago.
It was a C model, which I lovingly and expensively resored, and I loved that airplane, BUT...
-Annuals cost me over $1500, and that was with me removing all the stuff you're allowed to, and if aboslutely nothing was wrong.
-Beechcraft learned their parts pricing from Mercedes and Porsche. Or maybe it was the other way around.
-and that's only part of it.
Cool it. The RV's are better airplanes. If you need more seats, rent or borrow or sell yours and build a 10.
I've owned 7 certificated aircraft and will never own another one.

Best of luck.
Bill O'Brien

 

[Rick6a]

Forbidden fruit

Just wondering? Seeing the value of our RV's on the resale market sometimes makes me start to think of turning mine over and buying a Bonanza, or a Comanche. There I said it, and it felt really dirty. Anyway, I was wondering if anybody else has these terrible thoughts. Anybody willing to admit it if they do? Part of the reason that I built an RV is because of the prices of anything that I wanted to own was out of my reach at the time. Now with the high prices that RV's command a pretty nice retract isn't a stretch. The problem is... Oh this feels so wrong even to think, but is it normal? Bryan

You should be proud. You are willing to think out of the box. Many people are quite content to live lives within the confines of an emotional box they construct and validate with the endorsement of others who share its common walls and consider such boundaries as "comfortable". All like-minded airplane groups share a common thread. The faithful always think their airplane is the best. Life is just too short to limit ones self to tasting one (but admittedly tasty) fruit. You are bold though. Coming clean on a forum like this. My compliments.
So Bryan, you built an RV? Easily among one of life's greatest accomplishments. Not too many people can claim to have built and flown anything. Feeling dirty just because you are thinking..."What if?" Well, I guess my lot in life is to be perpetually filthy. Don't let the choir decide your music selections. What do any of us really know about you? Do what your guts tells you to do but personally, I've tasted all the annual inspections, and AD's and overpriced certified parts for this lifetime and well into the next. So I ask you...is THAT normal?

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"

 

[dlloyd3]

My Bonanza fuel bill averaged $41.14 last year over 256 hours, 12.7 per hour. And half the fueul was bought for less than $3 per gallon. This is probably as little hourly fuel as can be spent if flying a Bo. You can fly an RV on half that burn! Don't even get me started on taxes. Or maintenance.

 

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

I occasionally think about finishing the RV, flying it and selling it, using the proceeds to build another.... and another....and another.

I've been interested in the number of people I know personally who are building or who have build RV10s, and then immediately sold it (or plan to). The comparatively low build time seems to make it ideally suited for that.

Guess we'll see when I'm done and flying.

 

[flymustangs]

I've been interested in the number of people I know personally who are building or who have build RV10s, and then immediately sold it (or plan to). The comparatively low build time seems to make it ideally suited for that.

I thought the RV10 build time was similar to the RV-3/4 because of the complexity and size. That's for the standard kit of course. Is that not correct? What build times are people seeing on the RV10? Numbers for standard and QB kits would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Ken

 

[osxuser]

I've got my A&P as well. My dad owns a Cessna Cardinal (Fix Gear). Stats:

180HP
120Kt Cruise TAS
4 Seats
48 Gals
8 GPH

RV7:

180HP
165Kt Cruise
2 Seats
42+ Gal (I'm planning on building bigger tanks)
8GPH

Now since I normally fly the Cardinal with the back seats empty, the two extra seats don't do much for me. On the whole, I don't really have to make this decision since my Dad isn't planning on selling the Cardinal, and I can still fly it if I need four seats.

Maintenance for US runs around 5-6K/year, but I do almost all the work, and get a shop discount .

All in all, the fact is, I could get an airplane that performs almost as nice as an RV-7 in the certified world for less money (Grumman AA1C with a TD conversion and 160HP) but still choose the RV. That is even with my having my A&P (IA this summer) and working in the industry. Why? Because I think I could build a better airplane! Bonanzas are beautiful, and for some personallities, are the perfect airplane. But the fact that you have already built an RV means that they are not for you.

If you want to have a "nicer" airplane than an RV, you might want to consider another project, Maybe make the first TD and retractable RV-10, or perhaps a Glasair II. Hell, design you own airplane if you want. But the inability to tinker on the certified airplane will wear on you fast. There are so many things that can be improved on them, that it's hard to resist just doing it. I'd love to redesign the cowl and baffling on my dads airplane, but the FAA would have a COW!

 

[mark manda]

A guy I know, I loaned him some Instrument Tapes, is talking about selling his RV-8A and replacing it with a Bonanza.

He has been flying his RV-8A very custom, for just over a year and he might have 50 hrs. on it. My guess is 30.

He prefers his C-182 that he bought to take flying lessons in four years ago.

Probably because he is always flying to remote places for fishing, moose hunting and outdoor life stuff. Loaded to the gills. And he likes to take plenty of people.

If he sells both, he is in good shape for a down payment. Different strokes.

 

[osxuser]

A guy I know, I loaned him some Instrument Tapes, is talking about selling his RV-8A and replacing it with a Bonanza.

He has been flying his RV-8A very custom, for just over a year and he might have 50 hrs. on it. My guess is 30.

He prefers his C-182 that he bought to take flying lessons in four years ago.

Probably because he is always flying to remote places for fishing, moose hunting and outdoor life stuff. Loaded to the gills. And he likes to take plenty of people.

If he sells both, he is in good shape for a down payment. Different strokes.

Down payment? Is he talking a NEW bonanza? Unless my math is wrong he should clear like 160K from both airplanes, thats enough for a pretty nice 80's Bonanza.

 

[aparchment]

RV Delirium

I am still early in my building career but already I share Bob's point of view. I hope to finish my 7A and then build another RV. Who knows what that will be! I will probably never own a certified airplane as long as legislation does not change how we can fly our experimentals.

Over my relatively short aviation career (7 years) I have seen my share of certified aircraft idiocy. Even with my high level of involvement on annuals and general maintenance, the bills from the A&P on our 172 were pretty steep. Add to that the cost of replacement parts that are often INFERIOR to other parts available on the market and the hassle of upgrading. Why on earth would I buy in to such a system when there is a better option that I can take?

No doubt the Bonanza is a sweet plane, but besides the expensive maintenance and parts issues, how does it suit your mission? The majority of the time I fly I am either alone or with one other. If I had need for more seats I would have built a 10. If you are looking for a more stable instrument platform, again, build a 10. I fully intend to fly my 7 IFR and have flown a friends through several approaches with great comfort. Compare the performance of the RV to the Bonanza. I think the RV wins that one if you compare speed, fuel economy and climb performance. Compare the instrument capability of the RV to the average Bonanza. It would take a lot more money and paperwork to make the Bonanza a top of the line instrument ship with a moving map, approach certified GPS and weather. Finally if you get the urge to yank and bank, the case is open and shut for the RV. So what areas are you left with in which the Bonanza might win -- cool factor of a retractable? More impressive status symbol? I guess neither of those matter to me, or perhaps more accurately, I will take cheaper insurance rates in exchange for the first and I think the RV has a higher "cool" factor!

To me it's about bang for the buck, the ability to work on the plane myself, enjoyment of building and owning a well rounded plane that is NEW!

Only you know how your priorities stack up on these considerations.

Wow that was a long winded and disorganized ramble. Back to building.

Antony

 

[rv9aviator]

No one mentioned one of the main reason I chose to build a new RV was to not have to fly 30-50 year old aluminum. I was so sick of old wiring, AD's, and cracks in the aluminum cowl. I wanted a new airplane.
I sure wouldn't want to own a Bonanza or worse a Baron right now. My feeling is the new planes like Cirrus and Diamond, not to mention the mini jets will kill the resale value on those ageing planes over the next five years. My brother-in law just sold his very nice straight tail Bonanza because he felt he was riding a dead horse. For the money he had in that Bonanza he could of had an RV-10 with a total glass panel with all the bells and whistles.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my old straight tail Cessna but I will love my RV-9A more. www.jimsairplanes.com

 

[Highflight]

To me it's about bang for the buck...

Wow that was a long winded and disorganized ramble. Back to building.

Antony

"Bang for the buck" pretty much sums up the RV experience.

 

[osxuser]

No one mentioned one of the main reason I chose to build a new RV was to not have to fly 30-50 year old aluminum. I was so sick of old wiring, AD's, and cracks in the aluminum cowl. I wanted a new airplane.
I sure wouldn't want to own a Bonanza or worse a Baron right now. My feeling is the new planes like Cirrus and Diamond, not to mention the mini jets will kill the resale value on those ageing planes over the next five years.

Fortunitly for the industry, the high initial purchase cost, and for the Cirrus & Jets, the cost of insurance, will pretty much prevent that from happening. The fact that people still buy NEW 172's proves that they will be around a lot longer than 5 years.

My brother-in law just sold his very nice straight tail Bonanza because he felt he was riding a dead horse. For the money he had in that Bonanza he could of had an RV-10 with a total glass panel with all the bells and whistles.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my old straight tail Cessna but I will love my RV-9A more. www.jimsairplanes.com

What is he replacing the Bonanza with? A VLJ?

 

[SRC]

Reverse Blasphamy

Well here we are in 2013, enjoying our RV10. This, after 3 Bonanza A-36's and a Cessna 400. RV10 was a lower cost option after two of our partners left the group of 4. Of these airplanes, the RV has most of the performance, is the lower cost to maintain and fly, and is the most fun.

 

[ILikePike]

Get one of each

I got one of each. Right now I fly about 250 hour per year. I love my 68 aerobatic bonanza. It is a rock solid plane for IFR and turns heads every where I go because it is unique. However, I cannot wait to finish my 8. It will be faster with better avionics and cheaper to operate. But, I do not plan to sell my Bo.

 

[cfiidon]

Bonanza

I finished my RV8 last fall. My 1970 V35B is for sale. I love the Bo, but just can't support two airplanes. My mission has changed also, and I no longer need the 5 seats in the Bonanza.

But I'll miss her when she's gone...any takers?

Don

 

[Lonnie I. Rush]

I have owned my Bonanza for 20 years and have flow it for business and pleasure.Mostly IFR and believe it is the best overall airplane you can own ! I never buy Beech parts because I never need any. These airplanes are built like a tank. You buy engines,avionics,tires,brakes,paint,interior,as you will with any airplane. If you fly it you must maintain it. I have also owned an RV6 and built and sold an RV12