Veetail88

Veetail88

Well Known Member
I have one of these.

1y1xm9.jpg


With the friction lock tightened down a bit so it takes a bit of effort to move the throttle, prop and mixture controls, I get some binding.

Due to the twisting moment exerted by the horizontal arm on the vertical arm, the squared edges of the lever dig in to the slots they ride through.

I suppose this will wear in, but the unit would have a nicer feel if there were some nylon guides for the levers to slide in.

Anyone have a fix for this or should I just live with it until the parts wear a bit?

Thanks
 
No fix but

I use a lot of friction and that just about eliminates the binding. As for the wear I've got 200 hours on the quadrant and no change.
 
I have the cheaper Van's version of the quadrant and noted the same problem with the throttle. I really should have rounded the edges better when building. I was concerned that leaving it that way might scrape out phenolic unevenly and result in bigger problems...

Since I was ready to fly and it would have been a major hassle to remove the quadrant, I rubbed graphite from a carpenter's pencil on the phenolic sides of the slide. I did this in the knowledge that graphite is not recommended because of corrosive effects on aluminum but felt that it would not be a problem in this location. You may be able to find another "dry" lubricant which would work here...

When I started flying, I made sure that I pushed on the handle above the lever arm so as not to twist the lever arm any more than necessary. I would think that tightening the drag would make the problem worse.

Now that I've got a few hours on the airplane and things have worn in a bit I do not notice the scraping any more, even if I push further out on the handle.

I considered putting some UHMWPE tape on the phenolic, but after a few tries could not figure out a way to get it in and stuck down in rather tight quarters.

Good luck...
 
Veetail88 said:
I have one of these.

1y1xm9.jpg


With the friction lock tightened down a bit so it takes a bit of effort to move the throttle, prop and mixture controls, I get some binding.

Due to the twisting moment exerted by the horizontal arm on the vertical arm, the squared edges of the lever dig in to the slots they ride through.

I suppose this will wear in, but the unit would have a nicer feel if there were some nylon guides for the levers to slide in.

Anyone have a fix for this or should I just live with it until the parts wear a bit?

Thanks
Click to expand...


Mine does the same thing. More so on the mixture than the other two. I'll try more friction.
 
Possible fix ...

What a coincidence ?.

I just received my quadrant yesterday. Was very happy with everything. The look, the engraving and the physical size. Then came the ?disappointment? .. I moved the leavers and they would ?sometime? scrap against the side in the slot ? Not impressed. :(

Yes if you keep the friction lock tight ? and you push / pull directly in line (i.e. not put a side force on the leaver) then the leavers will not touch the wall of the slot ? I suppose on a side mounted unit it may be ?worse? as you push on the side ? on a center mounted ? you would ?mostly? push / pull in line

Anyway ? I like everything else about the quadrant. But I have to solve this problem before I put it in my plane.

You could try taking some of the ?Plastic flap tape? that VAN sells .. and stick it to each side of the slot ? or you could stick it to the arm itself. The other solution, which is a bit more involved which I am going for is to try and fit UHMWPE plastic in-between the arms ? so that the arms rub against them ? and not against the wall of the slot (having Alu rubbing on Alu is not very clever) ?.. I will let you know how I get on?.
 
I have the same setup and same problem. If I were doing it again, I'd have the prop and mixture controlled by vernier cable.
 
If I had it to do over, and eventually I likely will just redo it, I'd seriously consider the Fatboy quadrant.

Don't know what the price is, but The design looks much better.

I just don't want to add more to the project right now. I want to get flying! :D
 
We have two of these quadrants and they work great for us. I trust you have worked with the manufactuer to figure out why your isn't working well? I know you wouldn't come criticizing a product without working with the vendor first, would you? No, I didn't 't think so. He is great with helping out customers, which I can't say for his major competitor.
 
I used clear packing tape on the inside of the slots. Trimmed flush with the top of the plate with an exacto knife. Operated smooth after that.
I think it was 3M 3/4" wide magic tape or something like that.
 
Louise Hose said:
I trust you have worked with the manufactuer to figure out why your isn't working well? I know you wouldn't come criticizing a product without working with the vendor first, would you? No, I didn't 't think so.
Click to expand...



Ummmm, wow. No, no I haven't contacted the manufacturer. Nor did I denigrate him, state that the product was garbage or suggest in any way that there would be no support from him/them. I was merely seeking information from the knowledge base here. Lots of these units out there, and who better to get real life information from?

This forum is a lightning fast way to get that, anytime, day, night or weekend, so it's the first place I go.

Here's my trouble shooting method.

1. Find out if a problem I'm experiencing is wide spread or isolated.
2. If it's widespread, it's likely a problem with the design and maybe someone has a fix.
3. If it's just a problem with my unit, contact the manufacturer.

In this particular case, it would be hard to argue that applying force to the end of the lever WOULDN'T torque it, and if the vertical portion flexes, and it does, it WILL rub on the sides of the guide slot. Whether that is a problem in the real world in most cases is really what I wanted to know.

Now it appears I'm not the only one with this problem, but this thread hasn't been overwhelmed with responses either, so maybe it's not widespread.

At this point I will indeed go to the manufacturer.

I had no intention of attacking or insulting an apparent sacred cow.

On the other hand, I don't think his competitor will have a hard time figuring out who he is, or anyone else on this board either.

Louise Hose said:
He is great with helping out customers, which I can't say for his major competitor.
Click to expand...
 
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Just a simple minded look at this, if the arm is flexing and binding in the slot, fix the flexing. Thicker or different material for the arm?
 
ILikePike said:
I used clear packing tape on the inside of the slots. Trimmed flush with the top of the plate with an exacto knife. Operated smooth after that.
I think it was 3M 3/4" wide magic tape or something like that.
Click to expand...

I did this also only I used anti-chaffee clear tape. Smooth as silk.
 
Great customer service is a wonderful thing. With that said putting out a product that is consistently having an issue and I think that's pretty much been shown in this thread, shows something as well. The truth is that quadrant is difficult enough to install that I have no intention of taking it out regardless. However anybody still building might want to put some time into fixing this issue before it's installed.
 
ColoRv said:
.... a product that is consistently having an issue and I think that's pretty much been shown in this thread....
Click to expand...

Ahh - point of order? There are number of people having issues that have posted on this thread. There are thousands of these quadrants in service, and most of the folks aren't jumping on the bandwagon with issues. The internet is a lousy place to draw conclusions statistically.

Full Disclosure - Yup, Dayton (the maker of the quadrants, the owner of a very small business) is a friend of mine, as are MANY of the small business owners that support our passion. I asked him about this thread this morning, and he told me that part of the problem has been that the governor manufacturers have gone to a much stiffer return spring on their lever arms, requiring that people keep more tension on their quadrants to keep the prop lever from slipping, and therefore requiring more force on the levers - and therefore flexing the material. This appears to be a new problem, not one affecting many year's worth of installations.

That's worth what you paid for it.
 
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Sticking quadrant.

I have a quadrant of X brand that also sticks. As an engineer I'm only interested in solutions as life is too short otherwise. Now reading on the thread some solutions have used tape of various types on the slide.
Would like to see some pictures of this so that I can proceed with a fix during my annual which I'm doing now.
The timing of this thread is most fortuitous as I was pondering on how to solve the problem.

RV-3 G-BVDC
RV-8 Slow very slow build.
 
A solution from the manufacturer would be great. I assume he'll be chiming in here sooner or later.

Possibly some type of tough plastic sleeve that could be installed on the levers while they're in place might work. :eek:

I'm afraid tape would come off or wear through pretty quickly.
 
Ironflight said:
Ahh - point of order? There are number of people having issues that have posted on this thread. There are thousands of these quadrants in service, and most of the folks aren't jumping on the bandwagon with issues. The internet is a lousy place to draw conclusions statistically.

Full Disclosure - Yup, Dayton (the maker of the quadrants, the owner of a very small business) is a friend of mine, as are MANY of the small business owners that support our passion. I asked him about this thread this morning, and he told me that part of the problem has been that the governor manufacturers have gone to a much stiffer return spring on their lever arms, requiring that people keep more tension on their quadrants to keep the prop lever from slipping, and therefore requiring more force on the levers - and therefore flexing the material. This appears to be a new problem, not one affecting many year's worth of installations.

That's worth what you paid for it.
Click to expand...


As one data point, mine hangs up whether under lots friction or none at all. My work around is to operate the mixture from the lever...not the knob. I may put some time into finding a fix later, but DAR is imminent and I have other things more pressing.

It's not a bandwagon jump when people discuss real issues with real equipment. That's what this forum is for.
 
Sticking throttle

In fairness I must point out that my throttle quadrant is not made by Dayton Murdock and I do not have a prop governor. Mine only sticks at one point, when either leaver is in the closed position. If I push on the leaver and not the handle they move very smoothly. So it is only really important in a go around situation when a decision time factor is short.
My first thought was to strip the quadrant and round the edges so they do not dig in and bind. The other was to change the material of the slide surface.

Any other ideas out there on a simple solution that has worked for other people.

Rob
RV-3 G-BVDC
RV 8 very very slow build
 
I did the 1st (2) flights on an RV-8 yesterday, with a Vans "deluxe" quadrant, and no issues at all. I think it had the MT governor? Will check.

However, I have flown RV-8s where the Governor spring is too strong, requiring the friction wound up. IMHO winding the friction up is not satisfactory in handling terms alone, let alone the quadrant issues alluded to above?

If the theory is correct, surely the target cure is either easing off the spring on the Governor (which has been discussed / I think solutions are out there?), or increasing the friction in the governor control.

Our RV-8 now has an Andair single lever throttle, and vernier RPM/Mixture, which I find a great solution for my flying - but appreciate it will not suit all.
 
Product support

Hi All

The design of the quad is to the transfer the motion of your hand through the system to the component at the other end if there is friction in the system twisting and binding will occur at the lever, changing the lever material, lever friction system will not overcome a cable system with installation issues.

The upstream components of the system need to be in order before you can determine that the quadrant is the true issue in the system. Some of the questions that you should ask your self are.

1. Are the cables free?
2. After they are completely installed and ready to be connected to the quadrant and the throttle, prop or mixture lever you should be able to move them with your fingers.
3. Are the control arms on the carburetor / throttle body or governor correct for your project and all move freely without being obstructed?
4. Contact the manufacture that you have the correct arms for your application.

After you have determined that none of these conditions are present then you might have an issue with the quadrant and I urge you to contact me at [email protected] .
 
When I built my -9 I installed a DJM two lever center throttle quadrant. With 536 hours on the plane and two different engines the TQ is working great!

Yes, there is metal on metal contact between the levers and the TQ top and after reading this thread I took a look to see if there was any wear. sure enough their is. about a 1/4" at the very top of the throttle top. At this rate I figure it will need replacing at around 10,000 hours, maybe more. Dayton get ready for my warranty claim in, say,48 years.
 
Pimp my Quadrant

Here are a few notes from my ?Pimp my Quadrant Project? :)

First I like to re-state that it is nothing wrong with the Quadrant as is ... Loads have been sold, price is right, the look and the feel is great .... I would buy it again .. no question ...

I just did not like the possibility of having the aluminium handle touch the aluminium slot in the top plate ... (I know I am hard to please :) )

The photos should be fairly self explanatory ? I now have no metal to metal contact ...

If anyone wants any more info ... drop me a PM and I will get back to you ... I also have a fair bit left of the black stuff if anyone wants a piece ....

I have shared what I have done with Dayton at DJM

2ic43sg.jpg


10hiszn.jpg


wa3t77.jpg


oi6lbs.jpg


Smooth as silk ....
 
I am having a problem with the two lever quadrant that I purchased from ACS. The model number is CT82F - not sure who makes it. Anyway, the clevis / nut that attaches the throttle lever to the control cable scrapes against the quadrant frame, and the clevis pins contact each other as the levers are moved into different positions relative to each other. To mitigate the situation, I've installed some washers to move the quadrant frame away from the throttle lever which seems to work, but I don't really like the kludge. I'll also reverse one of the clevis pins so the heads oppose each other, which will make the already PITA installation that much more frustrating - but I'm hoping that it will work.

I think the root cause of quadrant frame rub is that the 3-hole control cable bracket's geometry. I am using the top two holes, the throttle cable routes through the outboard hole, and the mixture cable routes through the inboard hole. The mixture cable has almost a straight shot to its control lever, but the throttle cable angles horizontally inward to connect to its lever due to the distance between the top two cable support bracket holes. That angle causes the clevis stop nut to contact the forward edge of the quadrant frame. I'm wondering if the solution is to reroute the cable to the unused lower hole in the cable support bracket, which is closer horizontally to the top inboard hole, and should provide a straighter path to the level? Anyone have any ideas?
 
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