Ironflight

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
I was working with one of the guys who regularly flies the T-38N here in Houston (The ?N? stands for ?NASA? for all of you ex-Talon guys out there), and he was telling me about the second generation glass cockpit that is being developed and installed "in-house". You see, NASA gets it?s T-38?s (formerly A & B models) from the Air Force, and a few years back, did a big development project to put in a ?sorta-glass? cockpit (sometimes referred to as the ?Half-Glassed? cockpit ?:p). This brought the airplane out of the 50?s and almost into the 21st Century. The latest revision is going one better ? all glass(GPS and even XM weather)! But here?s the cool thing ? when we started comparing features and capabilities, Stevie ended up with the comment ?here we are, second generation, and still it has only about half the capability as the EFIS in your RV!!?

Yup, Experimental Glass is pretty darn good, no matter what you choose. Features are growing all the time, and the automation and integration we get greatly enhances the usability of the airplane with the intelligence it provides to the pilot. If, of course, the pilot really learns how to use it and understands both the features AND the limitations. (Standard disclaimer ? nothing will replace pilot skill and judgment if he or she doesn?t take the many hours required to study and practice with the system!)

No, the RV isn?t even close to a Talon when it comes to performance, but when it comes to knowing where you are, figuring out where you want to be, and seeing a nice magenta line that tells you how to get there, the two get a lot closer. Maybe someday, the T-38 will even catch up?:rolleyes:

(And yeah, if someone offered to trade me a T-38 even up for what I've got, I'd take it....if they threw in the fuel!)

Paul
 
The RV is a great ride and the most bang for the buck out there. The RV grin is something that has to be experienced to be understood.

The T-38 however, was for countless AF guys the first taste of Mach 1+, 720 deg per sec roll rate, initial burner climb of 30K/min, FL 390, 10,000' loops, 5G pulls, and a VNE of over 700 KIAS. Pulling out of the chocks in the "White Rocket" at 23 years old and launching at sunrise with a twin blue afterburner flame propelling me skyward is something I will never forget. The lack of "glass" did not in any way subtract from the experience. It was one heck of a ride.

Edgar Schmued was the Van man.
 
asav8tor said:
The RV is a great ride and the most bang for the buck out there. The RV grin is something that has to be experienced to be understood.

The T-38 however, was for countless AF guys the first taste of Mach 1+, 720 deg per sec roll rate, initial burner climb of 30K/min, FL 390, 10,000' loops, 5G pulls, and a VNE of over 700 KIAS. Pulling out of the chocks in the "White Rocket" at 23 years old and launching at sunrise with a twin blue afterburner flame propelling me skyward is something I will never forget. The lack of "glass" did not in any way subtract from the experience. It was one heck of a ride.

Edgar Schmued was the Van man.
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<quietly sheds a tear for the glory days...>
 
T-38

..Pumping up the brakes on a cold morning..unable to keep it from creeping at mil power...tight closed patterns...tapping the burner for even tighter closed...stacking high for wing landings...burners to 51,000',rolling inverted, breaking mach...200 kt overtake straight ahead rejoins...g's in the final turn...heady stuff for me at age 22!
 
You guys are getting me all wistful and sentimental. I love the T-38, and while I was flying it, I always wished I could have taken my parents, girlfriend, flying buddies, etc. for a ride. A few years ago, I wrote a Pilot Report on the airplane, in an attempt to convey the experience: T-38 PIREP.

I guess building my RV is also a bit of an attempt to re-capture some of the magic.
 
I think it was on T-38 ride #2 or one of the very early rides, departing Three-Zero Center at Williams for a pattern ride, I hear a voice over the intercom "Hey Jim-bo", hows about we pull the power back a bit." Looking down, at the airspeed it was showing something insane like 350-400 as we crossed over the GM proving grounds. Whoo-hooo!

OK, the RV wont' that but it sure puts the same grin on your face! :D
 
Old memories

Hey Buck,
I just read your pirep of the 38 and what a rush of great memories it brought back. Thanks for writing it. It's hard to believe so many years has passed so quickly since we all took that dollar ride through the sound barrier.
I revisited Willie last year and found my old base house. What a change. Then I looked in the mirror. What a change.
At least we don't need a start cart for our RV's.
 
Night flying

I used to watch those over the Superstitions and knew we were night flying..
Beautiful to watch, and fun to do...
 
"Steve" - T38N

Ironflight,

If your friend is ex-NASA shuttle pilot, Steve Nagel, please tell him that I and Tom Fisher say "hello". Last time I saw Steve, he was flying a Mooney (besides the shuttle trainer and the 38).

Regards,
 
Oh Baby

Solo on the wing as a student. Reese goes WX recall for the usual springtime storms. The IP in lead says "go route and stay with me". To this day, I have NEVER had that much fun in an airplane. Puffies, a sweet jet, no IP watching my every move from behind...

To bad I ended up as a T-37 FAIP:(


Joe
 
Glass, what glass?

The only glass that might have mattered to me back in my UPT days was sitting on the bar at the O'Club with a cold beer in it. :D

The 38 was a 900 mph supersonic jet that could climb like a homesick angel. I remember 300 knot traffic patterns, AB closed pull-ups to downwind, 90% RPM in the final turn, and 200 knot final approaches. But I always knew the 38 had a thousand-plus ways to eat dirt.

I liked the Tweet too - that little jet could turn like a gnat under a light bulb. Really fun, tough, honest airplane. It saved my bacon more than once while doing IP duty at Vance AFB.
 
Still a kid at heart wishing I could be a fighter pilot.

Hey you guys that trained at Vance.
I grew up wanting to be an airforce pilot but bad vision would not allow it. I did catch a glimpse of your world about 10 years ago. Vance AFB used to hold an open house once in awhile and general aviation pilots could fill out waiver forms and land their airplane at the AFB. There were safety talks and simulator rides. I lucked out and caught a T-38 walk around tour and scored a ride in the sim. All I can say is even being warned, I banged my helmet on the canopy during a full deflection aileron roll. The first one I lucked out and stopped the roll in almost the right place. The instructor was impressed but my next two or three were not as good! The sim was amazing to me at the time. I remember we flew down the Las Vegas strip with lightning flashing in the background IIRC. Way cool!
The altitude required to complete a loop was amazing. I still have fond memories of that sim ride so I can only imagine what the real deal is like. I remember the instructor saying something like, if you can land the T-38 well, you can land any fighter in the U.S.A.F. inventory. Is that true? BTW, I think I only crashed twice out of four or five landing attempts. Probably a good thing the Air Force wouldn't take me. I really enjoyed Buck's T-38 write up! I live about 85 miles west of the AFB and during the walk around tour the guide told us the trainees head over toward my hometown on one of their final flights and that is where they are allowed to first go supersonic. True? Also, I thought he said the 38 needed to be in a shallow dive to break the barrier. Is that right?

Still a kid at heart wishing I could be a fighter pilot.
 
Caveman said:
if you can land the T-38 well, you can land any fighter in the U.S.A.F. inventory. Is that true?
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That's definitely true. The T-38 really does a good job of teaching aimpoint/glidepath control and airspeed/AOA control. It's an airplane that doesn't tolerate a bit of sloppiness. Every plane I flew after that was a piece of cake.
CAVEMAN said:
I thought he said the 38 needed to be in a shallow dive to break the barrier. Is that right?
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On student training sorties, we always established a slight descent to make the transition to transsonic, not necessarily because it was absolutely required, but just to expedite things. In afterburner, the fuel gauges move downward with remarkable speed, and every second counts. With five or six more items on the mission profile left to accomplish after the supersonic run, time is of the essence. We'd spend about two minutes at 1.10-1.15 Mach, then move on to the next item. Just long enough to see Elvis. :D The "Boom Ride," as we called it, was often only about 55 minutes long, as opposed to 1:20 for a normal flight.
 
Not to forget the PERFECT "cheaters" loop you could do just by running the trim all the way back.

F-4 flew just like it except heavier, and you had to "unload" just a little in anticipation of the slats or they would ruin your day with a momentary over-g.
 
Thanks Buck!

Brings back many happy memories of the summer of '69 at Laredo!

John
Seeking aerobatic LSA (for what should be obvious reasons!)
 
Starlifters!

Well, then there's that too! Those are happy memories of Charlietown South, and places North, South, East and West, through the early 70s.:)


John
 
After UPT, a few months at Randolph then back to Del Rio for 3 more years, I managed to acquire about 1000 hrs in the T-38.

It was a wonderful airplane to fly. And in many ways a easy airplane to fly. For acro all you had to do is point the nose and that's where it was going to go. The biggest challenge for me was mastering no-flap landings from the back seat.

IIRC, the airplane was designed to prepare pilots for the Century series fighters, hence the thin, low-aspect ratio wings and the accompanying flying characteristics.

I had a student that had a programmable calculator (advanced stuff in the early 80's) and he programmed it to solve the point-bearing-distance (PBD)-to-PBD nav problem. Instead of using the "pencil method" he just punched the current PBD in and the calculator puked out the heading. It was no-wind of course, but it worked pretty well.

So that student gets the credit for the first "glass cockpit" T-38.;)
 
1flyer said:
I've done things in C-141's that fighter pilots can only dream of.:rolleyes:
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Hehe - funny, but I NEVER dreamed of doing ANYTHING in a C-XXX....

Lawndarts cool - what a great idea to build a disposable jet! Which is a good thing, 'cause they never checked 6...

Uh-oh, here comes the guy with the thread-locker...

:D
 
Starlizards Forever!

In between those two, eat your box lunch, take a nap in the hay loft, and cook and eat your dinner. And we won't go into AirEvac missions. ;)

Steve
7th, 708th, 710th MAS, KSUU
 
Ah Yes, the Air Evac. Nice scenery.

Personally, the 3 weeks in Christchurch for Deep Freeze in '95, '96 and '98 were my favorites.:cool:


Joe
86 MAS/20 ALS/20 AS KSUU
728 AS KTCM
 
I used to fly a lot of Air Evac's. I thought Air Crew partied hardy but those AE crews really knew how to do it right.
 
Not your daddy's T-38!

In about 15 minutes I step for my LAST T-38 Emergency Procedures Evaluation followed by my LAST T-38C Instrument Qualification Checkride...fancy talk for Air Force checkride. Having started out 19 years ago in the mighty T-38A and amassing 2,000 hours in this jet since then (many fighter sorties in between) it is truly the 'easiest' jet out there. When I transitioned last year to the glass cockpit T-38C with INS, GPS, VOR and VHF radio, I didn't quite recognize my old digs but after a few sorties wouldn't want to switch back to the 'steam gages' but do miss the simplicity of a three 1/2 minute start to taxi! As the flight test guy here I often fly this jet supersonic but now with the 'C' model getting more than 1.09 Mach hardly ever happens but still, the ride is wonderful. At 47 years old, as I contemplate the life without the Talon, I hope as I hang up the flight suit soon my RV and YAK flying keep my mind from wishing for younger days...but today, I ride the White Rocket!
 
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