[RVatrixEmily]

Hi, My dad and I are building an RV9A and we're wondering what the best position and landing lights are to use. What have you had the best luck with? Any info on LEDs?
Thank you.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

I'm working on the idea of LED recognition lights in the "new style" W-715-1 wingtips along with LED nav lights. My LED parts should be waiting at home thanks to UPS.

Basically, I'm thinking of installing 2x white Luxeon III LEDs on the flat portion of the light cutout with a 15 or 25 deg lens on one or both. These will powered by one 750mA LED driver per wingtip. The lights will have a wig-wag and a progressive switch for OFF-TAXI-WIGWAG operation on a single switch. Current draw will be < 2A with both wingtips on.

LED nav lights will be mounted to both the inboard and forward facing sections of the cutout. Most likely 3x Lux I with a single current driver per wingtip. Current draw will be 0.5A per side.

 

[Low Pass]

For landing lights I use four MR-16 halogen lamps - two in each wing. Outer pairs angled in & down, inner pair directly ahead. 300 watts total. Cheap and very bright.

 

[apatti]

For landing lights I use four MR-16 halogen lamps - two in each wing. Outer pairs angled in & down, inner pair directly ahead. 300 watts total. Cheap and very bright.

Bryan,
Do you have any pictures/descriptions of your installation process?

Thanks,

 

[petehowell]

LEDs for RV-9A

Here are the lights I made:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=85060&postcount=6

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Here are the lights I made:

Pete, these are very similar to what I am designing. I am planning on installing on LED taxi lights in place of where you have the MR16s and use the Duckworks landing light, which has very good feedback.

By "higher output LEDs" you mean Luxeon IIIs?

 

[petehowell]

Luxeon III

Hi Doug,

Yep, 4 Luxeon IIIs on each side. I used a simple current limiting resistor for the circuit - not elegant but sized for a bit of overvoltage. Very bright results.

During a dusk intercept by an RV-6 the other pilot mentioned the colored nav lights gave him the first glimpse of me.

 

[Robert M]

I'm not real creative when it comes to electrical things, I just went with the Whelen light kit sold by Van's.

 

[N130WN]

For landing lights I use four MR-16 halogen lamps - two in each wing. Outer pairs angled in & down, inner pair directly ahead. 300 watts total. Cheap and very bright.

This sounds like the four-bulb kit Van's sells. Is it? It's hard for me to imagine those little bulbs put out enough juice, but it sounds like you are happy with them. Thx.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

This sounds like the four-bulb kit Van's sells. Is it? It's hard for me to imagine those little bulbs put out enough juice, but it sounds like you are happy with them. Thx.

The Van's setup is a nice idea. The biggest downsides that I see are a circular pattern instead of a rectangular beam and 300W is really a lot of power - about 20A with everything going. This is the main attraction of the LEDs for recognition lights for me - low current draw. Never having to change bulbs is nice too. If you have a 40A alternator and have all lights on, strobes, avionics, etc, you could be drawing more current than the alternator is putting out - it makes full output at a high engine RPM - and can drain the battery during approach.

However, the MR16 style certainly are simple and you could always use lower wattage bulbs.

 

[N130WN]

This is the main attraction of the LEDs for recognition lights for me - low current draw. Never having to change bulbs is nice too.

Not landing/taxi or position lights, but recognition lights? Can you point me to an example of the LED recognition lights?

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Not landing/taxi or position lights, but recognition lights? Can you point me to an example of the LED recognition lights?

Well, I am hoping to use a wide enough beam pattern that the same LEDs will serve both purposes. It might be two emitters, one with a lens, one without. I'm not sure at this point.

As for who is using them, Cirrus is now has LED recognition lights standard on the "G3" models.

 

[Low Pass]

This sounds like the four-bulb kit Van's sells. Is it? It's hard for me to imagine those little bulbs put out enough juice, but it sounds like you are happy with them. Thx.

They put out a tremendous amount of light. 300 watts in (75W X 4) and a 30-degree cone of bright white light. Make sure you get the sealed lens MR16s.

The purpose was for my previous home base of a rural grass strip with minimal lighting. But they work wonderfully for anti-collision in and around the Houston airspace. Only trick was finding the MR16 socket with wire leads. Found them at an Internet lighting supplier.

Apatti - I don't have any pictures here. Will see if I can get some to you. It's all basically a home-brew arrangement. If I was doing it on a new installation, I'd install them with separate landing and taxi light switches as well as wig-wag.

 

[westwinds]

Doug, I like your idea of using LEDs for recognition lights due to low current draw. I would like to do the same thing as you but want to put the LEDs on both faces of the wingtip cutouts. That way you would get lights that could face both forward and to the side for more coverage. I want to be able to momentarily flash them, to alternate them, or to leave them on all the time. Tony

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Doug, I like your idea of using LEDs for recognition lights due to low current draw. I would like to do the same thing as you but want to put the LEDs on both faces of the wingtip cutouts. That way you would get lights that could face both forward and to the side for more coverage. I want to be able to momentarily flash them, to alternate them, or to leave them on all the time. Tony

Yep - that's exactly what I'm thinking. Wire a wig-wag and a "progressive" switch where the positions are OFF-ON-WIGWAG.

As for aiming them, IIRC, the forward facing surface is aligned 20 deg "aft" of the wing spar. A typical Lambertian Lux emitter has a very wide beam (120 deg at 1/2 brightness). If you put a "bare" star (no optics) on the forward facing surface, it will have coverage from 45 fore of the spar to 20 deg aft of the spar - limited by the shape of the light cutout. I would bet that would be plenty, but I intend to try some taxi tests in the CT. Putting another emitter on the side-facing surface wouldn't really help with the overall coverage angle, but would throw more light off the wingtip.

I'm actually thinking of keeping one emitter bare and putting a 40 deg or 10 x 40 deg square beam lens on the other. This would provide both flood light for turning as well as a getting some "throw" down the taxiway. It will take me a while to get this configuration together and do some testing.

 

[mgomez]

Luxeon thermal issues?

What heatsink did you folks use on the Luxeons?

Did anybody do the math to verify it complies with the FAR luminance and coverage requirements, or are we relying on the "FARs don't apply to homebuilts" rule?

Thanks, this is a great thread.

Martin

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

What heatsink did you folks use on the Luxeons?

Did anybody do the math to verify it complies with the FAR luminance and coverage requirements, or are we relying on the "FARs don't apply to homebuilts" rule?

Thanks, this is a great thread.

Martin

I was planning on just using the aluminum that forms the inside of the light cutout. This should work fine since it's connected to the skin and/or ribs (sorry, I don't have my plans with me on the road).

There have been calculations showing that you are fine with 3x Lux I for each red and green. Two Lux III at 750mA would be more than plenty.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

UPDATE: LED Recognition Lights

Ok, so I got the Lux IIIs in, solder 'em up to the driver and stuck it to some aluminum bar for a heat sink. Hardly uses any current, warms the bar a little after ~20 minutes, very compact. The driver generates almost no heat.

My impression so far is that the 25 deg lens should work best for taxi and recognition lights. This will throw some light down close to the airplane while also providing some distance for both taxi and recognition purposes. The lens can be epoxied onto the star itself, making for a single piece to mount.

Next up will be some taxi tests and video. Not sure when this will happen, but certainly not until Jellybean gets back from his annual.

 

[Mel]

What heatsink did you folks use on the Luxeons?

Did anybody do the math to verify it complies with the FAR luminance and coverage requirements, or are we relying on the "FARs don't apply to homebuilts" rule?

Thanks, this is a great thread.

Martin

FAR 91.205 DOES apply to your amateur-built for night and IFR operations. It says so in your operating limitations.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Whelen now has 12v NAV lights.

Whelen now has 12v NAV lights.

 

[mburch]

Whelen now has 12v NAV lights.

Hey George - The Whelen rep at SnF told me they'd have them "soon"... I just looked on whelen.com but didn't see 12V LED anything. Maybe they just haven't updated it yet. Got a link?

mcb

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Whelen is supposed to have 14V LED NAV lights sometime. However, I'd expect that they will charge a pretty penny for them. I'd guess that BYO will cost you 3-4 hours and save $400. There are lots of examples of people who have done a nice job on them.

 

[apatti]

FAR 91.205 DOES apply to your amateur-built for night and IFR operations. It says so in your operating limitations.

Mel,
What would a DAR (i.e. you) do if you inspect an aircraft with a homebrew LED nav/position light setup? Ask for test documentation showing it meets FAR? Eyeball it?

What would the FAA do if during a ramp check they noticed the homebrew setup?

Thanks,

 

[westwinds]

Hi Doug, It sounds like you are making some forward strides on your recognition lights. I plan to use the Creativeair LED nav lights which are arranged in a circular pattern. I would like to fill in the center hole with the Luxeon leds you talk of for the recognition lights. Can you tell me where to get them and the drivers. I am not an electrical eng. Is it a simple wire up job? Tony

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Hi Doug, It sounds like you are making some forward strides on your recognition lights. I plan to use the Creativeair LED nav lights which are arranged in a circular pattern. I would like to fill in the center hole with the Luxeon leds you talk of for the recognition lights. Can you tell me where to get them and the drivers. I am not an electrical eng. Is it a simple wire up job? Tony

Lots of places to get Luxeons and drivers. I've used LED Supply, but there are certainly others.

As for using a Lux for a recognition light to go in the center, I'd recommend a Luxeon III star with a white Lambertian emitter. Drive it at 700mA or 1000mA using a driver (I've been using a power puck) or a resistor. Try the "L2" optic holder with either the 15 deg or 2 x 20 deg lens (get several and try them out - they're cheap). An alternative would be a Lux I driven at 350mA and a small driver like the BuckToot, but I don't think this will be bright enough.

Installation tips:
* You need to heatsink the star to something metal. A small blob of PC CPU type thermal paste will provide better heat transfer. Anchor it down with small screws or just use a thermal epoxy instead of the paste and screws.
* Get your smallest soldering iron tip out for the soldering. Keep the time the iron is on the pad to a minimum or you'll burn out the emitter. Best to heat sink it to something while you're doing the soldering.
* You'll need some type of epoxy to mount the optic holder to the star. The lens will snap into place and will be hard to get out (that's the idea!).

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Yep just go word

Hey George - The Whelen rep at SnF told me they'd have them "soon"... I just looked on whelen.com but didn't see 12V LED anything. Maybe they just haven't updated it yet. Got a link?

mcb

I was on their mail list, HOT off the presses. They are out. Give them a call. I agree they will likely cost a big bunch of money. I am interested in how they did it and what LED's they used. They have the same look as standard NAV light tear-drop they have always had for decades. I just mentioned it for a data point. I think some of the homegrown ones, no offense, are not really that good from coverage and power standpoint. On the other hand its a NAV light not a wing spar.

 

[hevansrv7a]

Take a Look at mine..

Hi, My dad and I are building an RV9A and we're wondering what the best position and landing lights are to use. What have you had the best luck with? Any info on LEDs?
Thank you.

You may want to consider a solution sold by Bill VonDane. Link is on my website.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Update: LED Strobes

NOVA, makers of the popular "XPAK" power supplies and tubes, has released a "LED Strobe" called the N500 "hide-a-led" for $90 per head. They fit into a standard 1" strobe head cut-out.

This looks to be 4x Lux III emitters (or equivalent) in a 2 x 2 grid. The right and left "columns" appear to be slightly offset by about 20 deg to increase the coverage angle. They have a driver / flasher logic box in line with the power cord. You can wire it to produce single / double / super-disco flashes, just like the Nova power packs. Note that they fire in a forward direction only, so the strobes would need to be mounted from the back of the lighting recess (firing "sideways") or from the bottom or top of the recess.

Nova claims "500+ lumens" for the white version. The FAA standard for strobes is 400 candela (cd). Using a handy converter and assuming each head needs to cover an angle of 120 deg (for each right, left and tail), you come up with needing 1,250 lumens.

So, at first glance, while interesting, these do not appear to meet FAA specs for strobes. Too bad, because they are cheap at $90/head, with no power supply, have no high voltage runs = less RFI and mount in standard strobe tube location. Heat dissipation could be an issue, but we will have to see.In addition, you would still need a tail strobe.

Some more progress to moving aviation towards 20th century lighting technology (now that we're in the 21st century )

TODR

PS - Whelen has announced a 71055 LED red beacon to replace tail-mounted units. This appears to use 12x led and claims to draw 1.2A @ 14V = about 17W. It might be possible to use a smaller number of LED.

 

[westwinds]

Doug, Thanks for the info on LED supply, I might just have to experiment a little bit with this. Tony

 

[mgomez]

What about this Hide-a-LED?

There's an 1100 lumen strobe built on LEDs that Nova makes, the X1100:

http://www.strobesnmore.com/product_info.php?products_id=730

It looks to be a bit more spherical in its coverage. I bought one to evaluate on our UAVs (at work) and it seems to be mighty bright. I have not done a quantitative test, though.

Anybody know more about this product?