rockwoodrv9

rockwoodrv9

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I would like to fly into Air Venture this year but as a 350 hour pilot, I do not want to be in a cluster **** for my arrival. I dont care what day I come in or time - just a low traffic day. I would love to be there for the Stein dinner on the 25th, but that is not necessary. I can only spend two nights so that limits me also. Maybe Im better landing somewhere else and taking a shuttle.

Historically, what are the best days and times to get in without the heavy traffic? Thanks.
 
Early is definitely better, but people know that trick already. There will be traffic circling waiting to come into the airport at 6am! Having a second person that can help look for other planes is nice. If they are a pilot they can help with workload. Read the approach procedures carefully and have it memorized. if you aren't familiar with the area get out Google Maps and see what things look like. Pilots can easily get confused when they see a line of airplanes and follow the wrong routes. They separate ultralights, airshow planes, etc. Have the approach procedures memorized so you can focus on flying and enjoying the experience.

Where I see a lot of people make mistakes is landing. It can put a lot of pressure on the pilot the last few seconds of the flight when they see 2 other planes landing on the same runway. They don't want to hit the other guy so they land too slow or I see the opposite guy that forgets about everyone else and lands too fast. Land normal. Ignore the other planes unless they are going to hit you! Be very cautious of the people standing off the runway guiding you into parking after you land. Many of them are not pilots. I have seen them taxi people into holes and ditches. Every year there are numerous prop strikes. If you are going to park with RV's or another group, make sure and have a printed sign with large letters that you can hold up showing them where you need to park. Keep in mind that even though they are directing you to go somewhere doesn't mean you have to follow them blindly. Keep a close eye on what you are taxing over and around. Ground operations is more risky than flight operations.

Flying into KOSH during the airshow is an event that you will remember and talk to others about forever. There is nothing like it in the world. Don't let it worry you. Just read the procedures and you will be fine. Thousands of aircraft land safely every year.
 
Just to reiterate what Phiip said, the mornings are usually less hectic. But I'd avoid the mornings the day after any major weather event in the Osh area that closed VFR arrivals as there's a good chance the arrival will be a royal cluster as 2 day's worth of traffic converge trying to get in.

Practice maintaining heading and altitude at 90KTS and short field landings. The landing pattern at Osh is not standard -- you will start descending from the downwind and the base will be tight and close-in to the assigned dot on the runway. There's a bunch of YouTube videos that show the whole arrival to landing sequence. Also read and have a copy of the NOTAM with you and print out your preferred parking/camping area signs (ie HBP, HBC, etc.).
 
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Great advice so far. Also, have a Plan B. If you get there and arrivals are a total cluster@#$! for whatever reason (e.g. runway closures) just break it off, land somewhere else, refuel, and wait it out. My personal minimum is “no circling of any lake.” I refuse to fly a holding pattern with dozens of strangers AT THE SAME ALTITUDE. :ROFLMAO:
 
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plehrke said:
Be between Ripon and Fisk at 7am on Wednesday or Thursday. Pray for no smoke from Canadian wildfires this year.
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This year, 2024, there is a NOTICE change of NO FISK arrivals before 8 AM on Thursday 07-25-2024. (one day only)


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Dugaru said:
Great advice so far. Also, have a Plan B. If you get there and arrivals are a total cluster@#$! for whatever reason (e.g. runway closures) just break it off, land somewhere else, refuel, and wait it out. My personal minimum is “no circling of any lake.” I refuse to fly a holding pattern with dozens of strangers. :ROFLMAO:
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Totally Agree 100%!!!! In fact, I only fly in IFR these days to skip all the VFR shenanigans altogether.
 
RV6_flyer said:
This year, 2024, there is a NOTICE change of NO FISK arrivals before 8 AM on Thursday 07-25-2024. (one day only)
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Well that's interesting, but methinks I know the reason why; last year on Thursday morning I was sitting at home with my coffee watching the ADSB tracker page... and it was an absolute sh!tshow on the ground due to the "shift change". All the Thurs morning departures trying to get out while the early arrivals were streaming in... from my comfy chair in Texas it looked like gridlock on deck at OSH. Maybe this restriction will smooth that out.
 
Auburntsts said:
Totally Agree 100%!!!! In fact, I only fly in IFR these days to skip all the VFR shenanigans altogether.
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That works unless they are also taking VFR arrivals and they cut you loose at 1 mile final and tell you to work it out! 😵‍💫
 
MED said:
That works unless they are also taking VFR arrivals and they cut you loose at 1 mile final and tell you to work it out! 😵‍💫
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Huh? I've flown in IFR the past 5 years, and flown the RNAV 27 approach all 5 times under VFR Wx conditions and was sequenced with the VFR traffic. The only difference from any other approach I've ever flown is being told to land on a specific dot vs just simply cleared land. I've never ever been cut loose on short final and told to figure it out.
 
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Last year my very low-time friend and wife and their recently completed RV12 arrived around 6pm on the Friday before the show. They reported light traffic and were parked just 1 row east of us in HBC (about 8 rows east of the pavilion).
 
If you can only stay two nights, then arriving early (before the show) on Thursday or Friday like many of us do won’t do you any good if you actually want to see the show, visit vendors, etc. I’d suggest a Tuesday arrival - things often calm down by then, and you’ll still get to see many homebuilders. The experimental crowd starts bailing out on Wednesdayit seems…..
 
Auburntsts said:
Huh? I've flown in IFR the past 5 years, and flown the RNAV 27 approach all 5 times under VFR Wx conditions and was sequenced with the VFR traffic. The only difference from any other approach I've ever flown is being told to land on a specific dot vs just simply cleared land. I've never ever been cut loose on short final and told to figure it out.
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Sounds like IFR arrivals have been good to you. Cut loose on short final to 27 with VFR arrivals on 27 (right base) and 18 (left base with some overshoots) makes for an exciting mix! It only takes once to be memorable. Might be why EAA recommends using the VFR arrival if conditions allow. YMMV, obviously. 🙄
 
jbDC9 said:
Well that's interesting, but methinks I know the reason why; last year on Thursday morning I was sitting at home with my coffee watching the ADSB tracker page... and it was an absolute sh!tshow on the ground due to the "shift change". All the Thurs morning departures trying to get out while the early arrivals were streaming in... from my comfy chair in Texas it looked like gridlock on deck at OSH. Maybe this restriction will smooth that out.
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Last year Thursday morning was heinous. A :poop: show does not even begin to describe it. For us Vintage volunteers working the airport ground traffic, it was a frustrating major challenge. It was a nightmare none of us ever wanted to see and hopefully will never be repeated. There were several contributors: the Wednesday Night airshow; a lot of pilots plan on leaving Thursday anyway. So to hopefully avoid that this year, there will be NO ARRIVALS from Fisk before 8 am and possibly later depending on the ground traffic. So: plan for that. If you don't care for circling Green Lake, wait until later in the morning but also be aware there will be a lot of people who will be waiting until later in the morning..........🤷‍♂️

Bottom line: read the NOTAM; print out ALL of the arrival maps (and departure map for later) and have them on your knee board so you will know where you will be going depending on what runways are in use; have all the frequencies you will need written down in BIG bold type somewhere; watch the EAA videos about what arriving there looks like; practice lower, tight turns base to final at home, with an instructor if you are not familiar enough with your airplane to do that yourself. Practice at home landing somewhere other than 'on the numbers' as you will have a colored DOT to land on at OSH. You will NOT be the only one on the runway, but the controllers will usually have plenty of spacing between the people ahead and behind you. If you hear 'expedite your exit from the runway, into the grass' that means someone is hot on your tail and you need to clear the LZ (landing zone) NOW!! Do as you have been instructed; do not wait for a taxiway intersection to come up as that might be too far for you to go. The grass on the West side of 18/36 is very well maintained. Don't hit a runway light!! Don't freak out. Just be aware of everything going on around you. Land like you always do. Having a fellow pilot along is helpful but not necessary. Your navigator needs to help you watch for traffic and anything else they think you need to be aware of. The volunteers in Vintage are very experienced and very well trained and will not taxi you into a hole as mentioned in a previous post. Nearly ALL of the incidents we see on our end are pilots not following the ground crews' instructions!! Pay attention!

Have your destination card printed in BIG BOLD LETTERS as to where you are going. HBC (homebuilt camping) or HBP (homebuilt parking, if you are not camping with your airplane) for most of us here. A hand-written sign in pencil done on a piece of notebook paper is NOT adequate!!! Print it out at home!

By conventions end, 13.000 airplanes (seriously) will have successfully landed and departed OSH safely. You will be among that crowd and will have been to OSH for your first amazing adventure. Enjoy the ride!!

I'll probably think of more later......😊
 
Steve said:
Last year my very low-time friend and wife and their recently completed RV12 arrived around 6pm on the Friday before the show. They reported light traffic and were parked just 1 row east of us in HBC (about 8 rows east of the pavilion).
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We’ve had great luck arriving the Friday before. Of course, when weather delays us, the backup the next day can be quite invigorating.
 
plehrke said:
Be between Ripon and Fisk at 7am on Wednesday or Thursday. Pray for no smoke from Canadian wildfires this year.
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I think Philip nailed it (except you now need to be an hour later on Thurday)

Last year I did the Friday before which worked out fine, but in previous years I've arrived early afternoon on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

Its MUCH less hectic later in the week as this crowd tends to be there for the 1st few days and most everybody stays until the Wednesday night fireworks (which repeat on Saturday night). That means by Tuesday (weather dependent) many of the planes have already arrived, which means the arrival is much calmer.

Before ADSB you didn't really know what you were going to get until you arrived, but now you can always take a look and decide to wait a few hours. The situation will change as the day progresses.

Derek
 
If you have any doubts about your ability to handle the Oshkosh arrival, go to Fond du Lac before the tower opens and ride the bus to Oshkosh. Last two times I did that I was the only airplane moving at Fondy.
 
Thanks for the responses here, phone calls, and emails! I am lucky I am only about a 2.5 hour flight from home so I can adjust for weather. My son who was an AH 64 pilot will be coming with me to help spot.

I said two nights but weather makes a difference for me and if I need to stay longer that’s fine. I don’t really care for the air show itself, just coming to meet people I only know from flying and the forums.

I have watched about every video made about the arrival and flown it in flight sim and 3d on ForeFlight several times. I am confident I can do the slow flight and landings but the videos show people being cut off all the time . I’m sure if will work out but if it gets freaky, I’m outa there!

Thanks
 
rockwoodrv9 said:
I’m sure if will work out but if it gets freaky, I’m outa there!
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Good attitude, Rocky. To twist the old flight instructors adage of, "Plan for a go around, and decide to land instead if everything looks right". Plan for a diversion and decide to land instead if everything looks right.
Appleton (KATW) has always had several buses a day to KOSH.
 
koupster said:
Good attitude, Rocky. To twist the old flight instructors adage of, "Plan for a go around, and decide to land instead if everything looks right". Plan for a diversion and decide to land instead if everything looks right.
Appleton (KATW) has always had several buses a day to KOSH.
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I have bailed to Appleton 3 times over the last 25 years and glad I did. I am driving this year.
 
Remember you are the PIC of your aircraft. Don’t let tower or anyone else rush you into a poor situation or decision. Also remember that things can happen after landing if you relax too soon. Pay attention to your marshaller but pay more attention to where they’re taking you. More than one person has been taxied into an unmarked obstruction or hole.
 
Included in the notam are signs for parking and departure. Homebuilt parking or homebuilt camping etc. Study the airport layout ahead of time. Look at the dots and where you will want to exit the runway for each dot. 36 L&R will be the active most of the time. They try to avoid 18 landings because of the proximity to runway 27.
If you should need to go around on 36 a right turn is required well before 27.
 
The dots are already in place on 36L. I find it helpful to look at a satellite view of the airport to scope out the relationship of the dots to desired exit point from runway. Homebuilt camping is straight west from the numbers of 18R.
On the arrival when they ask for a wing wag give them a good wag. If the tower is busy there should be no reason to transmit. The tower controllers will be talking nonstop.
 
For a diversion, Fond du Lac in recent years has not been that busy. Hartford, Portage and Baraboo are all good options if weather is a factor.
 
Tankerpilot75 said:
Don’t let tower or anyone else rush you into a poor situation or decision.
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This x 1000. Oshkosh is the only time I have ever heard ATC telling pilots how to fly (“tighten up that turn,” “add power,” etc.). Pay NO attention to such instructions. Fly the final portion of the approach the way YOU feel is appropriate, be ready to go around, and then absolutely go around if you can’t land safely. They’ll work you back in.
 
Dugaru said:
This x 1000. Oshkosh is the only time I have ever heard ATC telling pilots how to fly (“tighten up that turn,” “add power,” etc.). Pay NO attention to such instructions. Fly the final portion of the approach the way YOU feel is appropriate, be ready to go around, and then absolutely go around if you can’t land safely. They’ll work you back in.
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While you as PIC have the final say on how you fly, disregarding suggestions from ATC, who are literally watching thousands of aircraft, is not good advice.

That would be comparable to a second pilot telling you that you are a dot below the glide slope, and you as the pic ignoring it. Bad plan.

As Pic, you need to process ALL available input and correct accordingly.

Absolutely go around if it doesn’t come together.

That said, it is crucial to realize that there is a full spectrum of experience levels and “personalities” mixed together when arriving at oshkosh. That in itself is a threat. Be careful out there.
 
rocketman1988 said:
That would be comparable to a second pilot telling you that you are a dot below the glide slope, and you as the pic ignoring it. Bad plan.
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Not sure it’s comparable at all. Even if all the ATC folks at OSH are pilots (are they?) they don’t necessarily know your plane, or really anything about your state of flight.

You make a fair point though, it does depend on the advice. “You’re too low” is one thing. I’d pay some attention to that, obviously, even if it came from a nonpilot on the ground. “Tighten your turn” (which I heard ATC tell a landing pilot at OSH) seems very, very different.
 
OSH rewards pilots who are flexible and comfortable doing whatever is reasonably possible. Same at S&F. You don't need to be Steve Canyon. You just need to practice. Practice makes perfect.

Think about it. When is the last time you flew a tight right hand pattern as a continuous 180 curve from a close downwind? I can't give you an exact number, but if the wind is from the west, something like 50% of the arrivals will be expected to do it, and hit a specified spot.

When is the last time you flew a left hand descending base/final to the middle of a wide runway? That's the deal with 18R. Can't line up upon it from afar (that's 27's turf), and width can skew your perspective. Find an appropriate place and shoot a few, power off from the perch to a spot in the middle.

To the OP's question, almost any time after a good arrival day, exception being Sunday, which always has a lot of traffic. If the weather was bad yesterday, today is not a good morning to arrive.
 
What I will say is to input both routes from Ripken into your gps/foreflt. The last 2 yrs I didn’t track the east route correctly coming into Rwy36. Last yr I was about too far south on the base leg into 36. The guy ahead of me was kicked out of the pattern at Ripken and told to circle back around and I didn’t have the guy ahead of him in sight. I never saw the microwave tower. Hopefully this yr I’ll finally get to see it
 
FireMedic_2009 said:
What I will say is to input both routes from Ripken into your gps/foreflt. The last 2 yrs I didn’t track the east route correctly coming into Rwy36. Last yr I was about too far south on the base leg into 36. The guy ahead of me was kicked out of the pattern at Ripken and told to circle back around and I didn’t have the guy ahead of him in sight. I never saw the microwave tower. Hopefully this yr I’ll finally get to see it
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This is extremely dangerous to go too far South of Fisk Ave. for 36. When they turn you you should be over Fisk Ave. headed 090. You don’t need a GPS to fly this leg.

If you go too far South, the tower WILL NOT SEE YOU and they WILL TURN other planes in front of you on final that are following the NOTAM and their directions.

Example starting at 17:42, this is a Zenith factory guy that blows off his passenger correcting him and then continues to put themselves in danger while then chastising an RV that was doing the right thing.

 
Brantel said:
This is extremely dangerous to go too far South of Fisk Ave. for 36. When they turn you you should be over Fisk Ave. headed 090. You don’t need a GPS to fly this leg.

If you go too far South, the tower WILL NOT SEE YOU and they WILL TURN other planes in front of you on final that are following the NOTAM and their directions.
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all I know is, I turned east when they told me to. Whether the plane north of me was a little north of where he should have been I have no idea. But the Tower didn’t see it as a problem or they would’ve kicked me out of the pattern.

The guy that was kicked out of the pattern in front of me wasn’t keeping up and veering off course and unfortunately I didn’t have the view of the person in front of him so I could’ve have been a little off course by the time I got to Fisk
 
We tried to fly in last year first thing Sunday morning. Haze, tons of traffic, and my nervousness trying to do it for the first time caused me to bug out somewhere near fisk. I was following the rules maintaining spacing and had planes passing me on both sides. Couldn't take any more, bugged out and landed at an airport a bit North. I met 4 other RV's there and we flew in as a flight of 5. Walt Aronow was the pilot of our lead aircraft and he got us in. I won't try Sunday morning again especially if there was bad weather Saturday. I did notice there didn't seem to be many planes landing Sunday evening after 6PM. I took note of that!
 
FireMedic_2009 said:
What I will say is to input both routes from Ripken into your gps/foreflt. The last 2 yrs I didn’t track the east route correctly coming into Rwy36. Last yr I was about too far south on the base leg into 36. The guy ahead of me was kicked out of the pattern at Ripken and told to circle back around and I didn’t have the guy ahead of him in sight. I never saw the microwave tower. Hopefully this yr I’ll finally get to see it
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I had a good discussion last year after Airventure with an FAA representative who helps the planning/coordination of traffic flow into/out of EAA Airventure. He called me after I left a few comments/suggestions concerning the VFR arrival into OSH - specifically about how it was essentially unchanged over 40 years, while traffic had significantly increased.

Anyway...we talked about many of the challenges faced there. In regards to the FISK arrival, one of the problems the FAA and EAA had identified was that pilots were programming their GPS systems with the VFR waypoints provided in the NOTAM, and then flying a direct path between them. The FAA representative mentioned that those waypoints are for reference and are not meant create a flight plan to be flown in a straight line(s). The correct path was the geographic route described in the NOTAM. He mentioned that one of the keys to the safe VFR flow into OSH was identifying and carefully following that aircraft in front. GPS direct between the waypoints is counter to what they are trying to achieve. FWIW.

David
 
Thanks. Hopefully I’ll see the microwave/cell tower this year. The guy in front of me last year was flying too slow and all over the place. He should have been at the lower altitude
 
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