[Ironflight]

Let?s face it ? all ?light? planes that achieve significant performance are built pretty light. Because of that, there aren?t any that I know of that are so robust that you can abuse every part of them without consequence. RV?s are the same ? there are parts that we worry about when letting people get in or out, or simply wander around the airplane.

I thought of this the other day as I was giving a short ride to an old A&P/IA friend, and heard him thumping his way into the back seat. I could just imagine the back seat fiberglass developing a crack, or a dent in the floor from a heavy boot heel. I worry about the forward corners of the canopy skirt when I see folks that are a little less than graceful getting in to the back seat ? a snag on loose clothing, and that could easily get cracked.

I?m not obsessive about the condition of the airplane ? I recognize that scratches in paint are inevitable, and exhaust is going to stain the belly, no matter how hard I clean it?but I like to keep it ?nice?, and more importantly, unbroken.

I don?t remember a thread on this topic before ? the delicate parts of the RV. I?ve mentioned my fear of the canopy skirt being a problem on the -8. I get nervous when I see the big, wide tip-up canopy on the -6 swaying in the wind. What do you consider to be the ?delicate parts? in your RV? A shared database might be useful?.

Paul

 

[Kyle Boatright]

Let?s face it ? all ?light? planes that achieve significant performance are built pretty light. Because of that, there aren?t any that I know of that are so robust that you can abuse every part of them without consequence. RV?s are the same ? there are parts that we worry about when letting people get in or out, or simply wander around the airplane.

I thought of this the other day as I was giving a short ride to an old A&P/IA friend, and heard him thumping his way into the back seat. I could just imagine the back seat fiberglass developing a crack, or a dent in the floor from a heavy boot heel. I worry about the forward corners of the canopy skirt when I see folks that are a little less than graceful getting in to the back seat ? a snag on loose clothing, and that could easily get cracked.

I?m not obsessive about the condition of the airplane ? I recognize that scratches in paint are inevitable, and exhaust is going to stain the belly, no matter how hard I clean it?but I like to keep it ?nice?, and more importantly, unbroken.

I don?t remember a thread on this topic before ? the delicate parts of the RV. I?ve mentioned my fear of the canopy skirt being a problem on the -8. I get nervous when I see the big, wide tip-up canopy on the -6 swaying in the wind. What do you consider to be the ?delicate parts? in your RV? A shared database might be useful?.

Paul

The windscreen and canopy. Also the flap and wing beside the wing walk. All of those places are subject to the careless grab or foot placement of a passenger (no matter how well you briefed the passenger).

Scares me to death - particularly the folks who naturally grab the canopy or windscreen despite a briefing 10 seconds previously on *not* touching those areas.

 

[apkp777]

Just my installation but my key! I put my "traditional" ignition switch on the lower LH side of the panel and I am pretty sure someday someone will catch the key with their foot or knee and snap it off in the ignition. I have to take the key out before I let anyone in or out. At some point I will forget and ugghhh....

 

[RV8R999]

Funny cause that windscreen fairing that overlaps the canopy scares the heck out of me and I'm the one I worry about most! I have promised myself to always take my time getting in and out of my newly flying -8. The thought of having to redo any of that glass work makes me ill.

Something that bugs me is how awkward it is to let the canopy slide all the way aft while I'm still sitting the plane. I have a stop at the midway point but it is very difficult getting out of the plane in this position.

How do you guys manage letting the canopy slide all the way aft without just letting it go?

Ken

 

[tmillican]

Just my installation but my key! I put my "traditional" ignition switch on the lower LH side of the panel and I am pretty sure someday someone will catch the key with their foot or knee and snap it off in the ignition. I have to take the key out before I let anyone in or out. At some point I will forget and ugghhh....

I actually did bust off the bottom knob of my Dynon HS 34, probably with a foot while getting in or out of the airplane. Thankfully, Dynon fixed it under warranty (even though this was clearly no fault of theirs).

 

[Bavafa]

Beside the most obvious ones (canopy, flap/wing) my other fear is the instrument panel. I have a tip up and some folks just lean on the top part of the instrument panel as they want to get in and out. I have a label on top of it that says "Not a handle" and still they use it as one.

 

[Ironflight]

Funny cause that windscreen fairing that overlaps the canopy scares the heck out of me and I'm the one I worry about most! I have promised myself to always take my time getting in and out of my newly flying -8. The thought of having to redo any of that glass work makes me ill.

Something that bugs me is how awkward it is to let the canopy slide all the way aft while I'm still sitting the plane. I have a stop at the midway point but it is very difficult getting out of the plane in this position.

How do you guys manage letting the canopy slide all the way aft without just letting it go?

Ken

Maybe you need to move your mid-canopy latch farther aft Ken - I have no trouble getting in and out with it halfway, and yes, it scares me to hear it slide all the way back! (BTW - I have two 2" pieces of fuel hose stuck in the side roller tracks to act as "soft stops" for the rollers, so it doesn't bang on the aft bulkhead.)

 

[Snowflake]

My tip-up does worry me, as I occasionally get the corners of the fairings caught on the roll-bar if i'm lowering it in the wind. Thankfully I wasn't the first person to do this, the roll bar bears the scratches to prove it. I never leave mine unattended with the canopy up. The gas shocks may hold just fine, but the risk if it fell is just a little more than I can bear to think about.

The flaps are indeed another area of concern... A fellow RV'er tried to raise flaps after someone had leaned on them while peering in the cockpit. Leaning allowed part of the overlap to pop free, and then raising them caused exactly the damage you'd expect it to without me going into cringe-worthy detail. A good solution is leaving them one notch up from all the way down when parked at a fly-in. Or all the way up.

 

[kevinh]

I worry about the arm rests in my RV-7, they can catch a belt as the occupant is standing and bend.

 

[RV8R999]

Great idea Paul thanks!

 

[DeltaRomeo]

snip... What do you consider to be the “delicate parts” in your RV? A shared database might be useful….

Paul

In the last panel, I had one fuel gauge with a little 'left/right' switch under it to select the tank I wanted to view. Two seperate times passengers caught their foot on it getting into/out of the plane and snapped it off.

With the new panel, there are no switches down low over on the passenger side. Lesson learned!

 

[Greg Arehart]

Rob,

I put a delrin "guide" on the bottom of my roll bar to help keep the tipup aligned as it goes down. Basically a piece of wedge-shaped delrin that fits between the canopy frame and the latches that aligns the canopy as it closes so that it cannot get twisted and the fairing break. Got the idea from a post on here somewhere a couple years ago.

greg

 

[N8RV]

I reinforced the windscreen fairing with carbon fiber when laying up the glass, so I'm not worried about somebody grabbing it and hearing a crack. Plus, I installed handles in the roll bar to assist in ingress/egress (should be STANDARD on all RV-8s!)

My biggest concern is the little knobs on my radios that stick out just far enough that, if I'm careless, will catch a pant leg or shoe. I'm positive that I'm gonna snap one off one of these days...

As for the canopy crashing back, I tried the tubing idea -- but they fell out. So, I put in a couple of screws to keep the canopy from going all the way back, but that made a very disturbing BANG when the canopy was allowed to rumble back on its own. So, I put a rubber spacer on the screw and tightened a nut over it, expanding the rubber so that it stuck out farther than the nut. Voila'! Now, when the canopy escapes the mid-position latch and slides all the way back, it just makes a quiet >thump< and no worries.

Well, except that I then need to loosen my shoulder harness to reach back and grab the canopy frame ...

 

[rv7boy]

Just wondering...

I think it was February of '07 when I met Paul and he gave me a ride in the Val. Umm, I sure hope I didn't grab sump'n in the wrong place. I tried to be real aware of where my feet, rump and hands went. I hope I didn't break anything.

This really is a good thread. I've flown in several RV's as passenger and I always try to be respectful of other folks' handiwork. As passengers, and especially as passengers who are RV enthusiasts, we should be very careful of what RV part we touch and where we touch it.

 

[fl-mike]

Delicate?? Can we include the nosegear?
#1 - windscreen faring. On mine I just tell folks not to grab anything red. That seems to work pretty well.
#2 - ignition key. Mine is also situated to catch a pant leg if you're not careful. Luckily most of my flying is in shorts.

 

[airguy]

Delicate?? Can we include the nosegear?
#1 - windscreen faring. On mine I just tell folks not to grab anything red. That seems to work pretty well.

Hmmmm, that's a pretty good idea. I'm close to the point of painting some interior parts, I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Jim F]

Deacon Jim

I tried to make my plane as user-friendly as possible.....
I put two grab handles on the roll bar (actually my wife's suggestion...) and a center stepping block with "Step Here" on it between the seats and just aft of the fuel selector. I have a center arm rest that is both a compartment and robust enough to lean on.

I also always leave the flaps down when people are going to be getting in and out. This helps protect them.

My greatest worry is the mixture control. If it is in the out (Ilde cut-off) position, it is easy to snag on a cuff as someone gets down in. I try to remember to push it in before a passenger loads.

I have mounted my passenger side stick with a snap button arrangement so that the stick is both secure, and easy to remove. Most of the passengers I have taken for rides have no interest in "driving" (I ask...) and the stick just gets in their way. My wife also prefers to have it out for long cross countries.

After giving a dozen or more rides (including 80+ yr olds) I have learned to shepherd a non-pilot rider from the ground to the headphones. No one so far has criticized me for over-coaching them... after all, it is my airplane!

 

[Mike S]

I do not think this is a problem in other models, but in the 10, the seat belt buckle can hang over the door sill, and beat the fuse up.

 

[hendrik]

Not on an RV, but ...

It always makes me scream when I see people lifting the canopy of a glider by grabbing the small cut-out window in the plexiglas -- just the most delicate part of the most expensive part on the whole airplane! The worst thing is, I've seen lots and lots of pilots doing this.

 

[RV10Man]

I tried to make my plane as user-friendly as possible.....
I put two grab handles on the roll bar (actually my wife's suggestion...) and a center stepping block with "Step Here" on it between the seats and just aft of the fuel selector. I have a center arm rest that is both a compartment and robust enough to lean on.

I also always leave the flaps down when people are going to be getting in and out. This helps protect them.

My greatest worry is the mixture control. If it is in the out (Ilde cut-off) position, it is easy to snag on a cuff as someone gets down in. I try to remember to push it in before a passenger loads.

I have mounted my passenger side stick with a snap button arrangement so that the stick is both secure, and easy to remove. Most of the passengers I have taken for rides have no interest in "driving" (I ask...) and the stick just gets in their way. My wife also prefers to have it out for long cross countries.

After giving a dozen or more rides (including 80+ yr olds) I have learned to shepherd a non-pilot rider from the ground to the headphones. No one so far has criticized me for over-coaching them... after all, it is my airplane!

This is the way we do it. Coach them all the way from the first step to placing the headset on them (even the seasoned pilots). Heck, I do the same thing when giving rides in the 150.

Marshall Alexander

 

[ccarter]

Fingers touching LCD screens!

In addition to all of the above:


I've not seen one go bad from this in quite a while but das-fingin-pokin on the LCD screens drives me nuts. I have a cloth to remove the finger print marks but it is possible to damage those LCDs by pressing on them while they're energized.

 

[videobobk]

The 9 is quite a bit different when it comes to the flaps. I worry more about the trailing edge of the wing, the top skin right behind the rear spar. Since on the 9 it is not well supported when the flaps are down, I always leave my flaps up on the ground. I figure worse case I will have to repair (or replace) a flap, not have to fix a dent in the top of the wing. It has worked so far...

Bob Kelly

 

[Kevin Horton]

As for the canopy crashing back, I tried the tubing idea -- but they fell out.

Try larger diameter tubing. You can get quite large tubing inside the canopy rail if you use a screwdriver to push on the inside edge of the tubing to help get it through the slot.

 

[n5lp]

It is interesting how unbelievably strong and incredibly delicate our airplanes are. I often mention to people that at 6 gs just my body weight in the seat is more than the whole airplane, engine and all, is at 1 g. They can also take a lot of abuse in some ways. When my airplane was pretty new and I had just shut down at a fly-in a large kid ran at full speed and launched himself, landing on the horizontal stabilizer. I expected damage and didn't find any. This is the same fly-in where a cheer leading team, with their coach, opened a slider 6A and got inside, standing on the seats and sitting on the front of the slider canopy for photos. Wonder what they would have done if I had just leaned on one of their cars with one hand? The owner of the airplane, who arrived during the operation, was incredibly forbearing.

...A fellow RV'er tried to raise flaps after someone had leaned on them while peering in the cockpit. Leaning allowed part of the overlap to pop free, and then raising them caused exactly the damage you'd expect it to without me going into cringe-worthy detail. A good solution is leaving them one notch up from all the way down when parked at a fly-in. Or all the way up.

This is similar to how the worst damage was done to my airplane. Damage that is essentially unrepairable without rebuilding part of the wing.

What amazes me is what seemingly intelligent and thoughtful people will do, even fellow pilots. I always brief about the dis-embarkation to face forward and step backward off the wing while holding on to the rollbar and/or side deck. About seven times these instructions have been ignored and of those times there was damage about four times. People decide to just jump off which often causes their clothes to snag a sheet metal edge and bend it. That edge is probably my fault, but it isn't a problem with simple instruction following.

 

[nucleus]

It is amazing how people will completely disregard

your instructions. I used to just instruct prior to the passenger embarking, but real life experience have caused additional protocols to be put into place: I have taken to verbally reminding and repeating the disembarking instructions prior to opening the canopy after landing; as well as getting out first and walking around the tail of the aircraft to observe and correct the exiting passenger.



Hans

 

[plehrke]

Damage prone areas I have expereinced:

PTT switch on top of stick - snag with foot or pants on ingress
rudder and rudder stops - I use gust locks whenever the plane is outside. I even have a simple one to use when re-fueling
aft edge of canopy seal (on roll bar) - need to watch out for closing the canopy with the handle postioned forward
prop when removing the lower cowl - you can catch a hinge eye (one that runs down the sides) on the prop
Nose gear - full stall landing with stick in lap (and nose wheel off the ground) until turn off the runway

I always talk passengers through ingress and egress with me assisting outside the plane. I worry but so far everyone has done it as I have instructed. It sounds that I have been lucky based on other's posts.

 

[Ironflight]

RV-8 Canopy Latch Hook

I just remembered what is probably one of the things I worry about most - the canopy latch hook is right there for the passenger to snag getting in or out - which is why I generally have them board from the right! Mine has been snagged a couple of times (yup, I've done it myself as well), and it gets bent inboard or outboard. If it got well and truly hooked, you could probably do considerable canopy frame damage.

I get nervous just thinking' about it!

 

[KatieB]

For the clutz's out there...

I have always been a long-legged clutz and never once felt graceful until the day I learned how to 3-point a Taylorcraft on grass at age 23. People can hold my hand & tell me instructions all day long, but sometimes a foot gets placed outside the walk area, pants get snagged on something, whatever. I usually resist invitations to sit in other people's airplanes because of it!

That said... Glad to be building a -3!! No passengers, no worries except for my own clutzy butt. (The boyfriend's 8 will be another story... )

 

[Snowflake]

I put a delrin "guide" on the bottom of my roll bar to help keep the tipup aligned as it goes down. Basically a piece of wedge-shaped delrin that fits between the canopy frame and the latches that aligns the canopy as it closes so that it cannot get twisted and the fairing break. Got the idea from a post on here somewhere a couple years ago.

Mine actually came with two guides installed, they were aluminum angle brackets that bolted to the roll bar and had UHMW tape on the insides. They mounted along the outside edge of the rollbar, the posts that stick down and go through the holes in the fuselage for locking went *inside* the guides. I was forever catching either the post on the guide, or the canopy skirt on the guide, depending on how straight I was lowering the canopy. One way, you just lift up again. The other, it binds, and you have to pull down, push up on the other side, and hope you haven't just made it worse while trying to fix it.

I've made a set of delrin sliders to go along the inside of the rollbar instead, as suggested in a post on here (probably the one you're referring to). They're in my hangar waiting for me to get around to installing them.

I do find I have less trouble closing now that the metal guides are removed. Canopy seems to lower easily into place, sometimes it's just a little hard to find the hole for the posts to drop through. But a quick shake left and right usually gets it. Maybe I don't really need the guides at all.