T

ToadMan8

Member
Hello all! I just received my tools yesterday, so I set about on Van's practice kit to learn how to use them. Prior to yesterday, I've had no experience with these tools or this process, so I'm looking for some basic feedback / answers, if you would be so kind.

  1. How much to shave off the rubber thing around the swivel flush rivet set
  2. Why my rivets, especially flush rivets, tend to stand out on the head end (see above?)
  3. How much to countersink underlying pieces (like the angle iron in this case) when putting dimpled sheet metal over it
  4. How much self-etching primer should be used? A mist? An opaque coat? I get the impression this was a bit heavy.

Here's a link to pictures of what we did, and some of our mistakes - http://rvhaslanded.blogspot.com/

Thank you for your help!!
 
[*]How much to shave off the rubber thing around the swivel flush rivet set
Click to expand...
Don't shave any off.
[*]Why my rivets, especially flush rivets, tend to stand out on the head end (see above?)
Click to expand...
Technique? Were you back riveting these?
[*]How much to countersink underlying pieces (like the angle iron in this case) when putting dimpled sheet metal over it
Click to expand...
Use a dimpled piece of scrap as a guide. Countersink so that the scap piece sits flat.

Many of the shop heads in the last picture look over set.
 
ToadMan8 said:
Hello all! I just received my tools yesterday, so I set about on Van's practice kit to learn how to use them. Prior to yesterday, I've had no experience with these tools or this process, so I'm looking for some basic feedback / answers, if you would be so kind.
  1. How much to shave off the rubber thing around the swivel flush rivet set
  2. Why my rivets, especially flush rivets, tend to stand out on the head end (see above?)
  3. How much to countersink underlying pieces (like the angle iron in this case) when putting dimpled sheet metal over it
  4. How much self-etching primer should be used? A mist? An opaque coat? I get the impression this was a bit heavy.
Here's a link to pictures of what we did, and some of our mistakes - http://rvhaslanded.blogspot.com/

Thank you for your help!!
Click to expand...

1. I wouldn't shave off anything.
2. Because you're pushing back on the shop end with your bucking bar. Let your bucking bar do the work. Loosen your pushback a bit. Relax that hand and put your pressure on your gun against the rivet.
3. Give me an example. But cut up a couple of strips of .032 or .020 and dimple it. Put that piece over whatever you're going to rivet a dimpled piece to. If it sits flush, that's how much you countersink -- if you need to countersink -- that underlying piece.
4. That looks like the Sherwin Williams wash primer, which is a pain in the neck to shoot. Can be very thin and doesn't need much of a coat. But if you keep using it, you'll confess to crimes you didn't commit just to avoid the frustration of getting it just right with the HVLP gun. It works good, though.
 
LettersFromFlyoverCountry said:
1. I wouldn't shave off anything.
2. Because you're pushing back on the shop end with your bucking bar. Let your bucking bar do the work. Loosen your pushback a bit. Relax that hand and put your pressure on your gun against the rivet.
3. Give me an example. But cut up a couple of strips of .032 or .020 and dimple it. Put that piece over whatever you're going to rivet a dimpled piece to. If it sits flush, that's how much you countersink -- if you need to countersink -- that underlying piece.
4. That looks like the Sherwin Williams wash primer, which is a pain in the neck to shoot. Can be very thin and doesn't need much of a coat. But if you keep using it, you'll confess to crimes you didn't commit just to avoid the frustration of getting it just right with the HVLP gun. It works good, though.
Click to expand...

1. OK
2. This seems to help, thank you!
3. We figured the answer was "just enough that the dimpled piece sits flat against it", but we wanted to hear someone with experience say it ;)
4. It's the Dupli-Color self-etching primer, which, interestingly, is produced by Sherwin Williams. I will try a lighter coat, thanks!
 
cln1owner said:
Don't shave any off.

Technique? Were you back riveting these?

Many of the shop heads in the last picture look over set.
Click to expand...

I was doing it normally, gun on the head, bucking bar on the shop end / tail. I do have a set of gages. We drove them until the shop end's diameter barely fit in the gage. It was hard to judge depth of the dimpled ones because the gage "legs" would stand on the sides of the dimple slope instead of flat against the piece. I see that the Avery description says the use of the gage is "Each gauge measures MINIMUM height and MINIMUM diameter of shop heads AFTER setting." With that in mind, I will go re-measure them.

Perhaps the rivets were not long enough for the holes; I will attempt to ascertain that as well. I selected the rivets because the practice kit plans told me to use specific rivets in specific holes, unlike the actual plane where I understand you use your own judgement to determine rivet length.

Thanks again!
 
Rivet gauge

A rivet gauge is fine and will work well
However, it is sized to the mean of the actual
Spec. Best tip on riveting I ever got from another
Builder: table 3. In the military spec on vans fact page:
http://vansaircraft.com/public/Specs.htm
Write down the spec. Of the 3/32 and 1/8" shop head
Spec on your workbench. Go to harbor freight and get
A 1,000 inch gauge. Don't get the digital one the analog
Works best. Note in the spec. No max diam. Of shop head only
Min. Get a gage that gives the height out of the material
Of an undriven rivet. If you use the proper length rivet
The shop head diam and driven height will be fine.
The important part of all this is accurate mil spec
On the shop head. Rivet guides of shop head height and
Diam. Do not address the range you are allowed and can be confusing
When your new. Ie. you may think you over drove a rivet
Because it does not fit in the gage but in fact as long as the shop driven
Height measures in then you are ok. Happy to help if you need it
Call if you need to. 401-862-5577. Al
 
I should've pointed out the SportAir RV assembly workshops that are held around the country (at least I still think they are). Those are tremendous confidence builder for the new builder.

I was working on something a month or so ago -- on the 3,000th hour of the build -- and I was STILL hearing Ken Scott's voice as I was doing it.

and just to explain the technique thing...you're not actually trying to SQUEEZE a rivet when you use a gun and bucking bar --- not like when you squeeze it with a pair of hand squeezers. You're trying to let the bucking bar pound a shop head. It's not brute force. It's creating a "Newton's Cradle."

Having said that, i'm sure my engineering pals will post that it's not. But it is. :*) :*)
 
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Hints for Homebuilders videos on EAA...

... grab some beers and a notepad and watch em.
 
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