[JonJay]

On a recent trip to the Midwest, I observed the following during during the 14 hour adventure:

Landing on the runway in use. As I slowed to pull off onto the taxiway, my windscreen filled up with a Bonanza smoking his brakes in front of me. I called and asked “Bonanza at xx are you on frequency”. Him - “yes”. Me “‘what is going on?” Him “‘I was on the wrong frequency.” He was taking off in the opposite direction, communicating and listening on the wrong frequency at what I assume is his home field. I was short final. Never saw him. I pulled into the self serve and he disappeared. I told my wife he must have just gone back to his hangar to fix the brakes. She said he went back there to clean his shorts.

At another uncontrolled airport I hear what I assumed to be a seasoned pilot call out another airplane. Him “ xxx it’s really dangerous to do a midfield downwind entry when you have multiple airplanes in the pattern, I almost hit you.” Other guy “ I didn’t get a noticication. If you had ADSB I would have seen you” Him ….silence……
At my home field a few miles out. Him “entering right downwind for runaway one”. Runway one is left traffic. Me …..silence.
Also, me “xx 2 miles out will make straight in traffic permitting. Me a bit later “xx on short final. Other pilot “ xx taxing across active runway”. Me “ xx going around”. Me “‘xx you pulled right out in front of me”. Other Pilot “‘we’re fine, I made two radio calls”. (Neither included have x on short final”.

Be careful out there. I think the collective pilot population is getting dumber…..

 

[Scott Hersha]

I see crazy stuff like that at our uncontrolled airport all the time. We have an ILS approach to one of our runways, and I frequently hear XXX five mile final, ILS 29, straight in approach..……. The pattern is full……. he’s not in the pattern at 5 miles out, yet he/she continues. If it’s a corporate jet, I’ll extend my downwind, but it’s usually some slow GA airplane and it causes problems.

 

[rocketman1988]

I see crazy stuff like that at our uncontrolled airport all the time. We have an ILS approach to one of our runways, and I frequently hear XXX five mile final, ILS 29, straight in approach..……. The pattern is full……. he’s not in the pattern at 5 miles out, yet he/she continues. If it’s a corporate jet, I’ll extend my downwind, but it’s usually some slow GA airplane and it causes problems.

That makes me chuckle... "the pattern is full". No such thing at a public airport. Everyone has the right to enter the pattern and land regardless of the number of aircraft in the pattern. Now if the guy is doing a straight in, well that's a different story. He needs to work into the pattern just like everyone else.

 

[akschu]

The one that frustrates me the most is the ads-b comment, the others are just dumb people being dumb.

If I was the seasoned pilot I would have reported the guy that doesn’t seem to care about looking out the window. Someone not flying VFR in VFR airspace is super dangerous and the attitude that he makes the rules is doubly so.

 

[hgerhardt]

Most of the locals at KSZP (Santa Paula) don't even bother to turn on their transponders, so ADSB-in is useless in that scenario.

 

[Desert Rat]

That makes me chuckle... "the pattern is full". No such thing at a public airport. Everyone has the right to enter the pattern and land regardless of the number of aircraft in the pattern. Now if the guy is doing a straight in, well that's a different story. He needs to work into the pattern just like everyone else.

No such thing at a non-towered airport maybe. But I've been on the receiving end of "Stay clear of the class D, it will be about 15 minutes."

The first time I heard that I was working as a CFII at KDVT. I'm guessing there were at least 8 airplanes in the pattern for each of the parallels. I say that because I've been there numerous times where I got worked in as one of 7 and they had no problem throwing out the welcome mat for that.

 

[ChiefPilot]

Yeah, some people suck. A number of folks at our field (KSGS) have a story or two of dealing with a local flight school and their shenanigans. I was told, for example, that the aircraft that cut me off while I was on short final had the right of way because they were doing a "simulated emergency approach" and that because it was a simulated emergency, they had right of way over everything else.

 

[Paul 5r4]

I had an event at my home field a while back. I was sitting at the departure end of runway 18 doing my run up. A gyrocopter landed on 18, (full stop), as I sat there doing my runup and disappeared over the small hump that in the center of our field. I know they had to have seen me! After completed my run up a minute or so later, I looked for the copter and did not see him. Thought he'd be taxing back to his hanger. After making my radio call, I took off. When I was about 500 feet, the copter contacted me and said they had to abort their takeoff because of me! They had turned around and were departing 36! I could tell in his voice he was perturbed at me. I kept my thoughts to myself but I was furious inside. How stupid to do what they did IMO. Knowing full well I was at the other end then turn around and roll in the opposite direction. Bottom line is this... No matter who did what, we'd all been just as dead! Yep, there are some dumb folks out there!

 

[JonJay]

One of my hangar neighbors explained his theory.
30 years ago, when I learned to fly, the amount of knowledge was relatively small. They focused on pilotage, from a paper chart, situational awareness, collision avoidance, communications, emergency management, and we even did stalls and spin recovery.
Today, the amount of required knowledge is much larger. Navigation is from a screen. Pilotage is pushing a button and flying a magenta line on a screen. Collision avoidance is a radio and another screen. Yet, 40 hours is still the mark.
I just don’t think “eyes out head on a swivel” is being taught.
I notice even in my own flying that I can easily get complacent and spend too much time with my eyes in my screens.

 

[Aden Rich]

Jon,
I've had very similar experiences. Pilots are losing the "gentlemenship" that I've seen in the days of old. We used to really be watching out for one another and actually putting some efforts into making the airport a safer place. Now it's all starring at the ADSB and watching their Garmin 10 million flat screen.
Let's get some class back into aviation and be on our best behavior when we head out the airport. It used to be a place where we could go to dissolve the world away and get some flying in and some pleasure back into our daily lives. Now it seems that the "rush rush rush" of the world is at our small town airports......
We even have it at our small airpark with people who want to think they are air traffic controllers and radio monitors and also airport managers/taxi directors. If we all put our best foot forward, all this other stuff should go away.

 

[Dugaru]

Be careful out there. I think the collective pilot population is getting dumber…..

Possibly. I mean, there definitely are people doing stupid pilot tricks out there.

On the other hand, we also have a problem with short tempers. And if what I see on the highways is any guide, it's quite possible that the short-temper problem is increasing at least as fast as any dumb pilot problem.

In my experience pilots tend to be very, very prickly about pattern etiquette. Sometimes it's understandable, but often it's an overreaction. Also, I've noticed that a lot of pilots tend to have highly variable, but quite dogmatic, views about pattern etiquette that don't necessarily correspond to regulatory requirements. "Often in error, but never in doubt."

We need to double down on getting along together. We're all capable of boneheaded moves. I remember landing at an unfamiliar uncontrolled airport, making my radio calls, head on a swivel, etc. Felt like Ernest Gann as I flared. Turned out I was on the wrong frequency. Doh!! Bonanza driver who had his head on a swivel saw me, held short, and just smiled and waved. As one ought to do at an uncontrolled field, where radios aren't even required.

At least it's better than driving. Imagine what you'd hear on the road if everyone on the highway was on a CTAF.

 

[Paul 5r4]

Oh, I just remember another non-gentlemanly experience I had a few years ago. I was behind a 172 with an instructor and student. They were sitting there when I began my taxi out. Anyway. I completed my run up and waited another couple minutes... they still didn't move! There was a run up area just across the runway. I finally got on the radio and ask if they could pull forward to that run up area so I could depart. Their in a very firm tone response, "You can just be patient!!!" I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Counting the time it took me to taxi out and complete my run up, I figured they had been sitting there now I at least 7 minutes and who knows how long they had been there before I began my taxi out. It was at least another minute before they took off! What a Jack.....ss.

 

[LawrenceJames]

Seems unreasonable to expect perfection in anything involving GA. These are not professional pilots. Low time people make mistakes and those getting trained are getting distracted in 5 different ways. If people expect perfection then those are the ones that will get whacked when somebody breaks a rule. I've gone the wrong way, transmitted on the wrong frequency and done other stupid stuff but I am a good pilot.

Frustrating as it might be, it happens and your job is to work around it safely and anticipate more nonsense. Also, I find it helpful when posting someone else's fault to include one of your own to balance the energy. Has anyone else ever taxied the wrong way or xmit on wrong freq by accident?

Paul
Well known but not here

 

[JonJay]

Possibly. I mean, there definitely are people doing stupid pilot tricks out there.

On the other hand, we also have a problem with short tempers. And if what I see on the highways is any guide, it's quite possible that the short-temper problem is increasing at least as fast as any dumb pilot problem.

In my experience pilots tend to be very, very prickly about pattern etiquette. Sometimes it's understandable, but often it's an overreaction. Also, I've noticed that a lot of pilots tend to have highly variable, but quite dogmatic, views about pattern etiquette that don't necessarily correspond to regulatory requirements. "Often in error, but never in doubt."

We need to double down on getting along together. We're all capable of boneheaded moves. I remember landing at an unfamiliar uncontrolled airport, making my radio calls, head on a swivel, etc. Felt like Ernest Gann as I flared. Turned out I was on the wrong frequency. Doh!! Bonanza driver who had his head on a swivel saw me, held short, and just smiled and waved. As one ought to do at an uncontrolled field, where radios aren't even required.

At least it's better than driving. Imagine what you'd hear on the road if everyone on the highway was on a CTAF.

Excellent post. I’m guilty. Put together a few other factors like fatigue from a long day, or perhaps you’re cool after the first incident, but after the third you might be getting a bit grumpy.
Check yourself.

 

[wawrzynskivp]

Yeah, some people suck. A number of folks at our field (KSGS) have a story or two of dealing with a local flight school and their shenanigans. I was told, for example, that the aircraft that cut me off while I was on short final had the right of way because they were doing a "simulated emergency approach" and that because it was a simulated emergency, they had right of way over everything else.

That certainly touches one of my bugaboos: If ever we speak to 'right of way' and aren't accurately quoting FAR 91.113 then we are misspeaking. "Right of way" is law, policy, preference, priority are all different terms. If we are operating and don't know the right of way rules cold, then I offer we are dangerous.

Example: After being #3 and now #1 on final in an established pattern on a single runway at a non-towered field I made the final call and saw another aircraft roll onto the opposite approach end and heard him make his takeoff call. Honestly the best words failed me, so in plain language I asked him if he saw the aircraft on final in the opposite direction and he said he did and started his roll. I became #3 in the established pattern direction again.

I think 91.113 is well thought out and well written. We must check our assumptions and possible bad habits at the door and read it for what it actually says. For example it gives the right of way to an airplane on final to land over something like a balloon that is not on final. The knee jerkers will fume at that but what that functionally does is foot stomp the importance to stay well clear of runway approach paths if you are not using them, something even the pilots of aircraft of limited maneuverability can ensure.

 

[Jerry Fischer]

The one that frustrates me the most is the ads-b comment, the others are just dumb people being dumb.

If I was the seasoned pilot I would have reported the guy that doesn’t seem to care about looking out the window. Someone not flying VFR in VFR airspace is super dangerous and the attitude that he makes the rules is doubly so.

And here I thought: "SEE & AVOID" was rule #1 for all PIC's. If you assume all pilots follow published proceedures ( non radioed A/C for instance) you are subject to surprises you don't need or want.

 

[Amadeus]

At least it's better than driving. Imagine what you'd hear on the road if everyone on the highway was on a CTAF.

No need to imagine as it would be just a constant squeal, squelch, squawk (whatever the correct term is for when more than one person is transmitting at the same time).

 

[JonJay]

Seems unreasonable to expect perfection in anything involving GA. These are not professional pilots. Low time people make mistakes and those getting trained are getting distracted in 5 different ways. If people expect perfection then those are the ones that will get whacked when somebody breaks a rule. I've gone the wrong way, transmitted on the wrong frequency and done other stupid stuff but I am a good pilot.

Frustrating as it might be, it happens and your job is to work around it safely and anticipate more nonsense. Also, I find it helpful when posting someone else's fault to include one of your own to balance the energy. Has anyone else ever taxied the wrong way or xmit on wrong freq by accident?

Paul
Well known but not here

Ya. If you haven’t done at least one or all of the above, you haven’t been flying.
However, I thought it was an unusually high number of “issues” over just a few flights.

 

[Dugaru]

Excellent post. I’m guilty. Put together a few other factors like fatigue from a long day, or perhaps you’re cool after the first incident, but after the third you might be getting a bit grumpy.
Check yourself.

Oh I’m DEFINITELY guilty. My brain needs to do a better job of distinguishing “that guy almost killed me!” from “meh, he didn’t see me and I had to go around.”

 

[JonJay]

Oh I’m DEFINITELY guilty. My brain needs to do a better job of distinguishing “that guy almost killed me!” from “meh, he didn’t see me and I had to go around.”

It’s hard to keep your cool when someone accidently tries to kill you. But, it wasn’t on purpose, or out of arrogance, it was just a mistake. I will credit the Bonanza pilot who chose to respond and tell me he was on the wrong frequency. He could have easily just kept quiet but he owned it. I respect that.

 

[Ironflight]

Hey folks, in the role of moderator for Doug’s rules, unless this becomes RV specific really quick (and not just “I was flying my RV at the time”), this is just going to spiral out of control pretty fast with complaints about every OTHER type and size of aircraft and pilot. More appropriate for general pilot forums- but some good thoughts…and be careful out there because anyone that has never done something stupid with an airplane (accidentally of course) has never actually been off the ground.