Russ McCutcheon

Russ McCutcheon

Well Known Member
I have asked and searched and only Rocket Bob would say he thought ethanol free 92 will work fine in my 8.7 to 1 compression ratio IO-360-A1A, straight mags, 20 degrees timing advance. Well AV gas just hit $5.60 a gallon while I can get pure 92 car gas for $4.15, that?s a huge savings. Now I am testing the waters, adding the 92 to the right tank and keeping the 100LL in the left tank, only 5 gallons added so far, ran great at reduced power cruse climb and cruse, I didn?t expect any trouble with this mix but I will be testing up to full power on straight 92 as I go, I?ll keep you all posted.
 
Been running straight 91 octane car gas in my 8.5-1 IO-540 for 5 years now, over 600 hours. ;)
 
Russ McCutcheon said:
I have asked and searched and only Rocket Bob would say he thought ethanol free 92 will work fine in my 8.7 to 1 compression ratio IO-360-A1A, straight mags, 20 degrees timing advance. Well AV gas just hit $5.60 a gallon while I can get pure 92 car gas for $4.15, that?s a huge savings. Now I am testing the waters, adding the 92 to the right tank and keeping the 100LL in the left tank, only 5 gallons added so far, ran great at reduced power cruse climb and cruse, I didn?t expect any trouble with this mix but I will be testing up to full power on straight 92 as I go, I?ll keep you all posted.
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Russ, how many 95F days do you get up there? Vapor lock is my concern with non-ethanol mogas. My airplane will occasionally have vapor lock problems in the summer when I land, shut down, and restart after a few minutes. I figure it would be much worse with mogas.

On the other hand, two of my airport neighbors run mogas almost exclusively and never complain about vapor lock.
 
pkill said:
Hello Russ,

Section 2 and Table B2 of Lycoming Service Instruction 1070 Q talks about auto fuel in the IO360-A?


http://www.lycoming.com/support/publications/service-instructions/pdfs/SI1070Q.pdf


Hope this helps,
pk
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Best I can see is the IO-360-A is only listed for 100/130 or 100LL, I don't see the IO-360-A listed in table B2 only the O-360-A which is not the same engine and has an 8.5 CR. This is why I have asked if anyone is running MOGAS in this engine and no one has said they where or I missed it, I don't know if Rocket Bob said he was or just said it would work. The lack of proof that it will work is why I haven't done it already but now with the price of AV gas what it is, it's time to find out for myself what can be done.
 
Kyle Boatright said:
Russ, how many 95F days do you get up there? Vapor lock is my concern with non-ethanol mogas. My airplane will occasionally have vapor lock problems in the summer when I land, shut down, and restart after a few minutes. I figure it would be much worse with mogas.

On the other hand, two of my airport neighbors run mogas almost exclusively and never complain about vapor lock.
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It's not to hot in the NW but I have a stock fuel system so for now and probably in the future I will have 100LL in the left tank, but today I made only two take offs and ran on 100LL for about 2 minuets total out of an hours flying. At some point if the 92 proves to be able to handle full power running I may have to install electric fuel pumps at the wing roots and remove the mechanical pump, this would eliminate vapor lock issues.
 
Russ McCutcheon said:
It's not to hot in the NW but I have a stock fuel system so for now and probably in the future I will have 100LL in the left tank, but today I made only two take offs and ran on 100LL for about 2 minuets total out of an hours flying. At some point if the 92 proves to be able to handle full power running I may have to install electric fuel pumps at the wing roots and remove the mechanical pump, this would eliminate vapor lock issues.
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I think my issues may be related to the under-cowl gascolator, which is a huge heat sink.

BTW, if octane is your big fear, a little 100LL mixed with your mogas will boost the mix's octane a disproportionate amount. I've been googling around for data, but no joy, as of yet...
 
Kyle Boatright said:
I think my issues may be related to the under-cowl gascolator, which is a huge heat sink.
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.... and there is (one of) the main culprit(s), with the other being the fuel pump itself, bolted to the biggest heater in the airplane.

Get rid of the items that heat your fuel, and you'll get rid of the vapor lock problems. There is a good reason the automotive world quit putting engine-driven fuel pumps on vehicles 3 decades ago.
 
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The time has come....

Last week I did something I've never done to my RV-6 (O-320, 160 hp, carb) in thirteen years of flying--put car gas in the tanks. We are on the cusp of $7 avgas ($6.50 locally) and that will really hurt my feelings. :mad:

I am running a blend of 93 octane non-contaminated auto gas and 100LL. At this point it is about 30% car gas but I will be increasing the ratio. Presently I can buy 15 gal of car gas for the price of 10 gal of 100LL. The savings will accumulate rapidly. Handling the car gas will be somewhat inconvenient, however.

I fear this is the path we will now be following for those of us who don't have an unlimited fuel budget. Best we gather as much info as possible on running our Lycs on car gas. I suspect it will be a smooth transition but old habits sometimes die hard. :)
 
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Sam Buchanan said:
<snip>
I fear this is the path we will now be following for those of us who don't have an unlimited fuel budget. Best we gather as much info as possible on running our Lycs on car gas. I suspect it will be a smooth transition but old habits sometimes die hard. :)
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My hangar mate, Larry, and I have both been running 91 octane in the right tanks (O-360-A1A). Larry has been running this for several hundred hours now with no apparent problems. We are going to be making transport trailer as soon as it warms up a little.
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Last week I did something I've never done to my RV-6 (O-320, 160 hp, carb) in thirteen years of flying--put car gas in the tanks. We are on the cusp of $7 avgas ($6.50 locally) and that will really hurt my feelings. :mad:

I am running a blend of 93 octane non-contaminated auto gas and 100LL. At this point it is about 30% car gas but I will be increasing the ratio. Presently I can buy 15 gal of car gas for the price of 10 gal of 100LL. The savings will accumulate rapidly. Handling the car gas will be somewhat inconvenient, however.

I fear this is the path we will now be following for those of us who don't have an unlimited fuel budget. Best we gather as much info as possible on running our Lycs on car gas. I suspect it will be a smooth transition but old habits sometimes die hard. :)
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Ya, at the prices I'm paying now when the engine is at TBO in another 1000 hours I will have saved enough to pay for the O/H,,, $13,000 over the next 1000 hours, the engine will probably go beyond TBO saving even more. Just a minute, am I saving money or spending money, lets not look to deep:eek:
 
Many Mogas users

Many of us are using mogas but the voice of disapproval is always stronger than that of support.
I suppose $ 7.- avgas will bring a new crop of flyers interested in using mogas.
It will take very little modification to make your airplane vapor lock proof and
you are off to enjoy cleaner burning mogas with less lead fouling on your plugs and other parts of the engine.
My engine is an Aero Sport IO-540 8:1 CR, Airflow performance injection
and one electronic ignition. I have tested 91 octane E10 for over a year and found no issues with either vapor lock or detonation.
I keep track of every gallon that I burn and so far I have burned 600 Gallons of 91 Octane.
 
newtech said:
My hangar mate, Larry, and I have both been running 91 octane in the right tanks (O-360-A1A). Larry has been running this for several hundred hours now with no apparent problems. We are going to be making transport trailer as soon as it warms up a little.
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Yep, 5-gal cans are not the long-term solution. I will also be looking at building some sort of fuel hauler this summer. The tricky part is preventing the difference in fuel price from being absorbed by the cost of building the fuel transporter. Still pondering.

Hope we don't lose the non-contaminated car gas.......
 
Fuel transport wagon

Picture005.jpg
 
For this exact reason I'm getting my new ECI engine built up with 7.2:1 pistons...Being a -340S I should still get 160HP too! :D
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Yep, 5-gal cans are not the long-term solution. I will also be looking at building some sort of fuel hauler this summer. The tricky part is preventing the difference in fuel price from being absorbed by the cost of building the fuel transporter. Still pondering.

Hope we don't lose the non-contaminated car gas.......
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Sam, Just figure a way to pump fuel from your car/truck fuel tank. Another way is to use a junk yard diesel saddle tank. You can find them rectangular and they hold about 50 gallons. And they are a legal DOT tank.

Empty, you can lift it into the back of a pickup. Use a 12 v pump from Northern Hydraulics. I found a pump that runs on vacuum from my truck motor. It has a spin on fuel filter and an inline fuel meter.
 
Ad me to the list of converts. I run 100% 91 octane mogas in my IO-360 with standard compression and have no problems. On a very hot day I occasionally need to run the boost pump during a long slow climb. Otherwise I enjoy saving over a buck a gallon. Been doing this for over 1000 hours. At 8.5 gallons/hour that's a savings of $8500.:D

There are more and more FBO's carrying mogas. Here's a locator map.
 
Fueling yourself

Note: Be careful of local airport rules on fueling your own aircraft. Some airports in my local area including a local flyin community have rules against this practice.
 
Personal fuel transport can be a challenge but there are advantages to the 5 gallon "can" method. First, it scales nicely. You can buy one of two cans to start. I'm up to 6 cans now.

The "transfer" solution can be pretty inexpensive as well. I took four old casters and some scrap materials from around my shop and built a rolling cart. It hold 4 gas containers at a time. In the center is one of the hand operated rotary Vane pumps. I think I paid $35-$40 for it new.

Somewhere on VAF is a picture of my cart.

It takes me less than 10 minutes to fill the airplane from "almost empty". Anytime I'll be headed near a station with zero-e, I just grab any empty gas containers. Making a special run costs money, you know :cool:
 
i am definitely on board for regular car gas mix with 100LL and MMO added. the delta now is about $2. that is a big savings. doing this for over 3,000 hours and 2 engines. i use two methods for testing for ethanol. fly more, save more. ;)

img0898aw.jpg
 
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I noticed the prices some of you are paying for AVGAS, Its worth noting that checking airnav or other sources can save a lot of money. In the CLT area fuel varies from 5:09 to 7 dollars a gallon. Hickory is at 5:09 and Rowan County at 5:23. Several others are in those ranges. Yesterday filled up in Georgia for 4.99 a gallon.

George
 
Turbo

Why are you so worried about the ethanol demon?
I know a number of pilots in this state who regularly use mogas and the only kind available is the one with ethanol E10.
One of my friends is using this stuff in his 10:1 CR Franklin and another I know uses low grade 87 octane in his carbureted O-360 neither having made any modifications to the fuel system.

Just an observation: Using mogas seems to be driven by the price of avgas rather than the suitability of the fuel system.
FWIW some of my friends have made no modifications to the standard fuel system and successfully use mogas without problems.
 
Avgas prices

Hi Guys
Everything is relative in life, for us Canadians or anyone leaving outside the US, $7.00/ gal will be a heck of a deal these days...

Last time I check fuel at the airport I refuel most of the time was $2.00 / liter or $8.00 / US Gal..I paid as much as $2.30 / liter last summer and it ain't cheaper now...

I will definetely use Mogas again next flying season..

Just my $0.02 so you don't feel so bad;)

Cheers

Bruno
 
sailvi767 said:
I noticed the prices some of you are paying for AVGAS, Its worth noting that checking airnav or other sources can save a lot of money. In the CLT area fuel varies from 5:09 to 7 dollars a gallon. Hickory is at 5:09 and Rowan County at 5:23. Several others are in those ranges. Yesterday filled up in Georgia for 4.99 a gallon.

George
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Watch what happens to the price next time they buy a load of fuel. :eek:

One of our local airports went from $4.75 to $5.65 last week. "My" airport went from $5.65 to $6.50. Airnav is a great tool but be prepared for sticker shock when the prices are updated in the next few weeks.
 
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N427EF said:
Why are you so worried about the ethanol demon?
I know a number of pilots in this state who regularly use mogas and the only kind available is the one with ethanol E10.
One of my friends is using this stuff in his 10:1 CR Franklin and another I know uses low grade 87 octane in his carbureted O-360 neither having made any modifications to the fuel system.

i didnt know i was so worried about ethanol. i have been using it for years. probably more than most here. it is just lately that i have been testing to see if any and how much ethanol is in the sunoco regular i have been using. :)
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Turbo

Reading your post again, I understand now.
I knew you were one of the long time users of mogas.
You are just testing to see what you are burning but you are ok with ethanol
or a mix of avgas/mogas what have you.
 
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