[flickroll]

I'm wiring up my -8 for a Dynon autopilot. In the Bonanza that I recently owned the AP was powered through the avionics master. I'm not sure I like that and am thinking about powering it through the main power buss. What have others done? Pros/cons of either way?

Thanks

Jim Shannon
RV-8 N52VV
Charlottesville, VA

 

[N941WR]

Jim,

I don't know if one connection location is any better than any other, as long as you include a way to drop power to it. This goes for any autopilot, not just the Dynon.

In my plane, it is wired to the avionics buss.

 

[DickDe]

AP wiring

Jim...

I wired my auto pilot through the avionics master which controls the avionics buss. Why? Because all the electronics which are sensitive to voltage spikes (usually during engine start up or shut down) are controlled by the avionics switch which is turned on after the engine is running smoothly, meaning a stable voltage, and I shut them off before pulling the idle cutoff when voltage spikes could again be present. I don't know if the new generation electronics are that sensitive to spikes but that is my reason for an avionics master. It eliminates the need to shut each radio of individually and my TruTrak AP is also digital so I wired it to the avionics buss.

Dick DeCramer
N500DD flying
RV8 wings complete
Northfield, MN

 

[flickroll]

Agree with the thought for a QUICK way to un-power the AP. There will be a dedicated CB for it, and I may also use a SPDT on-off switch. Although I never have experienced a dysfunctional AP, you sure do need a quick way to get rid of it, just in case. I did experience a run away trim in the Bonanza once. Not a fun experience, and in the -8 I'm using a Safety-Trim trim controller which should minimize the chances of that happening in the -8.

Jim Shannon

 

[mannanj]

Autopilot Power.

I'm not so sure there should be a dedicated power switch for the Tru-Trak Autopilot systems. They have an auto disconnect terminal in their DB-25 connector that you can put on your controll stick or any other place that's handy to instantly disconnect the auto pilot. This feature is built in, and has worked perfectly every time I have used iit n on my RV-8 over the last 240+ hours. I even have a switch placed so that my back seater can disable the autopilot shoud I become incapacitated.

There is something to be said for a seperate power switch though. Most solid state auto pilots need to be stationary for boot up. There are times when you might want to start the engine and be taxiing to the runway before you wait for the auto pilot to boot up.

If you're in this big of a hurry like that though, you might be like me and miss something on the before taxi, or the before takeoff checklist!

There's one thing good about homebuilding----------CHOICES!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RatMan]

I'm wiring up my -8 for a Dynon autopilot. In the Bonanza that I recently owned the AP was powered through the avionics master. I'm not sure I like that and am thinking about powering it through the main power buss. What have others done? Pros/cons of either way?

Well, the EFIS that controls the autopilot can be (should be) wired to the main (master) bus so I don't really see anything wrong with getting the power for the servos from the sameplace. The installation procedure is well documented in the lasted install manual from Dynon. Don't know which EFIS you'll be going with but here's one for a D180. Page 8-3 will pretty much answer your questions.

 

[Jamie]

FWIW, my my autopilot is connected to my main buss, and I have no switch or CB on it (just an ATO-type fuse). It is not on my essential buss. If something with the AP fubars, I'll just switch over to my e-buss.

BTW: I upgrade my firmware and flew with the Dynon autopilot last night for the first time.

First impressions: It's very smooth in the roll axis, but I can't get it to track a GPS waypoint. It will fly a GPS course, just not a waypoint. Weird. This is with my Garmin 496. I looked on-line and there is a firmware update available for the 496 and I've already upgraded it but have not had a chance to try again.

I couldn't quite get the pitch axis dialed in last night. It was wandering +- 100 feet...kind of made me seasick. I tried adjusting the sensitivity but it didn't seem to help. I'm sure it's just a setting tweak and I didn't have a lot of time to play with it.

I elected to not install the AP74 because I wanted to see how the Dynon AP actually performed first. After playing with the AP for a bit I think that I will probably install the AP74.

 

[Brantel]

Jamie,

Make sure the GPS is set to "Normal" under the advanced serial settings. In "Fast" mode, it leaves out some of the GPS labels that the Dynon might need.

 

[mburch]

Make sure the GPS is set to "Normal" under the advanced serial settings. In "Fast" mode, it leaves out some of the GPS labels that the Dynon might need.

Well, I don't know about that... when the GPS is set to "Fast" NMEA output mode, none of the NMEA sentences that are omitted are really important for navigation. I could be wrong though.

mcb

 

[Brantel]

Well, I don't know about that... when the GPS is set to "Fast" NMEA output mode, none of the NMEA sentences that are omitted are really important for navigation. I could be wrong though.

mcb

Not sure which ones are left out when set to fast but all of Dynon's FAQ's, literature and responses to problems on their forum state that it needs to be in NORMAL and not FAST mode.

The manual for the 496 sez that a "minimum number of sentences are sent when set to fast at a 1 second interval" who knows what minimum includes? It is possible that the 1 second interval is to fast for the Dynon to parse the data????

 

[Webb]

Your Call

I'm wiring up my -8 for a Dynon autopilot. In the Bonanza that I recently owned the AP was powered through the avionics master. I'm not sure I like that and am thinking about powering it through the main power buss. What have others done? Pros/cons of either way?

Thanks

Jim Shannon
RV-8 N52VV
Charlottesville, VA

Regardless of which buss - put a circuit breaker on it. You need to be able to shut it down. If on the master buss, a switch breaker so you don't have to worry about spikes. On the avionics, a pull breaker since you can leave it on.

Not sure if there are really any major pros or cons. Major difference (IMO) is you can leave it on if you put it on the avionics. If on the master, then you should shut it off before shut down.

Mine is on the avionics buss - one less switch to flip.

 

[Jamie]

Make sure the GPS is set to "Normal" under the advanced serial settings. In "Fast" mode, it leaves out some of the GPS labels that the Dynon might need.

You know -- it's the funniest thing. I went home last night, pulled out my 496 and after looking for the advanced serial settings started thinking..."this Brantel fellow doesn't know what the h. e. double hockey sticks he's talking about. There's no advanced serial settings on the 496."

Anyway..after overcoming my inherent maleness I pulled out the 496 manual and sure enough, hitting the 'menu' button on the interfaces tab will show advanced nmea settings. Too funny. I'll give it a try.

I'm really a gadget geek. I'm an embedded software engineer by day so I know my way around electronics pretty well. I have to say though that I have really been lazy with learning all of the ins and outs of the 496. Sitting on the couch with it last night there really are lots of ways to customize it to your own liking. I would recommend anyone do that with their GPS, just take it home and explore every menu item, every option. There may be something there that you'll like.

In particular, one of the things I found was that you can display the course offset. This is a nice feature because it displays how far off course you are. My Trio autopilot would display this and it was neat to see how accurately it could fly the airplane on course. It will be interesting now that I can display this field on my 496 to see how accurately the Dynon AP can fly a course.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[Brantel]

"this Brantel fellow doesn't know what the h. e. double hockey sticks he's talking about. There's no advanced serial settings on the 496." .

About 50% of the time I don't, yes as you can see it is there after you hit menu while in that screen.

Not sure it is going to help you or not but it is worth a try and Dynon recommends it so it must have some significance, I think the default is "Fast". I took a look at a freinds new unit and it was set to FAST and most of the optional sentences were turned off.

If I ever get time to play, I think I will record some data streams out of the unit to see what sentences get left out when in fast mode. The one thing that I do know is that the update rate is once a second in FAST and once every two seconds in NORMAL. It is possible that once a second is too fast if you have too many sentences in the data packet and some of them get dropped or missed. In my day job I do allot of automation programming and integration where we use RS232, RS485 etc along with ASCII to make stuff communicate with each other.

 

[RatMan]

Regardless of which buss - put a circuit breaker on it. You need to be able to shut it down. If on the master buss, a switch breaker so you don't have to worry about spikes. On the avionics, a pull breaker since you can leave it on.

Not sure if there are really any major pros or cons. Major difference (IMO) is you can leave it on if you put it on the avionics. If on the master, then you should shut it off before shut down.

Mine is on the avionics buss - one less switch to flip.

Hey Webb, I'm assuming you don't have a Dynon. If I'm correct read on...

On the Dynon it's a bit different. The "autopilot" is part of the EFIS and Dynon says put the EFIS (or at least the D180) on the master bus i.e. boot it up before starting the engine. I don't even have a switch for the Dynon, it comes up when the master is turned on. Supposedly, it's OK as they have built it to handle engine starts. The only real issue at that point is the power to the servos. Dynon says use a "switch/breaker" and I would interpret this to mean a breaker if a fuse isn't used. Dynon really has thought out how home-builders do things as they don't force the use of breakers, a fused / switched circuit will do just as well.

Point being, you don't really need to think about turning the autopilot off unless their is a problem, otherwise just fly the plane and when you shutdown the Dynon will tell you it went to battery power and will turn itself off in 30 seconds just in case you forget to. If there is a problem you don"t really "turn off the autopilot" just kill the power to the servos.

Dynon hasn't got all the answers (yet) but what they do have is really nice!

 

[flickroll]

Point being, you don't really need to think about turning the autopilot off unless their is a problem, otherwise just fly the plane and ...

You REALLY need to have a way to shed the AP, and leave everything else on, especially if you have a full Dynon system. If your Dynon AP goes bonkers, do you really want to turn off all of your Dynon stuff just to get rid of the AP? A dedicated AP circuit breaker (for servos and the AP74) will do just fine.

Jim Shannon
RV-8 N52VV
Charlottesville, VA

 

[Webb]

No Dynon

Hey Webb, I'm assuming you don't have a Dynon. If I'm correct read on...

On the Dynon it's a bit different. The "autopilot" is part of the EFIS and Dynon says put the EFIS (or at least the D180) on the master bus i.e. boot it up before starting the engine. I don't even have a switch for the Dynon, it comes up when the master is turned on. Supposedly, it's OK as they have built it to handle engine starts. The only real issue at that point is the power to the servos. Dynon says use a "switch/breaker" and I would interpret this to mean a breaker if a fuse isn't used. Dynon really has thought out how home-builders do things as they don't force the use of breakers, a fused / switched circuit will do just as well.

Point being, you don't really need to think about turning the autopilot off unless their is a problem, otherwise just fly the plane and when you shutdown the Dynon will tell you it went to battery power and will turn itself off in 30 seconds just in case you forget to. If there is a problem you don"t really "turn off the autopilot" just kill the power to the servos.

Dynon hasn't got all the answers (yet) but what they do have is really nice!

You are correct - I have a Trutrak AP. I still think regardless of the brand, you need to be able to shut down an AP. As they say - just in case.

 

[RatMan]

You REALLY need to have a way to shed the AP, and leave everything else on, especially if you have a full Dynon system. If your Dynon AP goes bonkers, do you really want to turn off all of your Dynon stuff just to get rid of the AP? A dedicated AP circuit breaker (for servos and the AP74) will do just fine.

Jim Shannon
RV-8 N52VV
Charlottesville, VA

Jim,

I don't see a reason to cut power to the expansion module (AP74). I don't recall that in the install manual either, but other than that, I agree with you.

You understand the AP74 isn't the AP right?

 

[rvmills]

I've been watching this thread as I wire up my AP-74 and AP servos. Had some discussions with Dynon, and here is some of what I've gleaned. I didn't ask which buss to wire the EFIS or AP-74 or servos to, so I'll put out my thoughts and ask if they seem OK to the group.

On which buss to connect the power for EFIS and AP (servos and AP-74 in my Dynon example) to:

First on the EFIS power, and I'd like to ask for a sanity check on this: My D-100 and D-10A are wired to the Avionics Buss via dedicated 3 amp (sized as recommended) pullable CBs. CBs are just my pref, as I fly them at work and I like the troubleshooting capability; and I put it on the Avionics Buss because I just wanted all the avionics to come on with the Avionics Master switch (just my pref, as I know the Dynons will not suffer from engine start spikes).

John (Ratman), I saw your post stating that the EFIS that controls the AP should be wired to the Main Buss. I looked through the D-180 and D-100 install guides and just couldn't find that called out (not pickin' a nit with ya, just want to make sure I don't dork it up!). I don't have a Dynon EMS, so it seems that both EFIS's being on the Avionics Buss is OK (I'm assuming...uh-oh...that one might want a D-180 on the Main Buss so you'd get engine readings on engine start, but since I only have the 100 and the 10, that I'm OK...sound OK to the group?)

Second on the AP-74 and servo power: The diagrams on 8-3 (of the Dynon Install Manual) show the AP-74 power going to the Avionics Buss, and the servo(s) power going to "Aircraft Power". I asked Dynon if I could power the AP-74 and both servos through one breaker, and they said yes, as long as it was sized correctly. So I'm wiring them through a 5 amp pullable breaker (1.3 amp for each SV-32 servo, and 2 amps for the AP-74). This is also wired to the Avionics Buss (as I don't need the AP-74 or servos on before I turn on the Av Master). Seems OK, in that if the AP goes bonkers on me I can pull one breaker and kill the servos and the AP-74. I know that the AP-74 is just the "communicator" that is sending the EFIS-commanded (D-100 in my case) inputs to the servos, so if pulling that AP breaker didn't do the trick, I could also pull the D-100 breaker to stop all DSAB commands to the servos...but that shouldn't be required, since the servos should die when the AP breaker is pulled.

I just figured that having separate circuits (CB's) for the EFIS's and the AP would allow killing the AP function while sparing the EFIS's for normal flight. And John, along the lines of your last post, my thought and reasoning for powering the AP-74 through the AP CB was primarily to kill it if it shorts and starts smokin'.

So does all this sound "sound"? Is there any other reason that the EFIS's "should" be wired to the Main Buss, or does it appear that I'm OK?

Thanks much, and hope that hashing this all out here helps others wire theirs up nice and slick!

Cheers,
Bob

 

[flickroll]

Jim,

I don't see a reason to cut power to the expansion module (AP74). I don't recall that in the install manual either, but other than that, I agree with you.

Agree. But you need a way to disconnect power in a jiffy from the servos if you need to. A pull CB will do fine.

Jim

 

[RatMan]

Hi Bob,

John (Ratman), I saw your post stating that the EFIS that controls the AP should be wired to the Main Buss. I looked through the D-180 and D-100 install guides and just couldn't find that called out (not pickin' a nit with ya, just want to make sure I don't dork it up!). I don't have a Dynon EMS, so it seems that both EFIS's being on the Avionics Buss is OK (I'm assuming...uh-oh...that one might want a D-180 on the Main Buss so you'd get engine readings on engine start, but since I only have the 100 and the 10, that I'm OK...sound OK to the group?)

I don't fill like you're nit picking at all. The question of putting the D180 on the master power bus is addressed in the Dynon wiki and has been discussed several times in their forums. It's also eluded to in the install manual but in terms of the alert when losing power from the master power bus. I put it on the master power bus because of the EMS, had it been just an EFIS I too would have considered the avionics bus as an option as traditionally, that's where it is expected to be. You are correct in thinking I want the EMS powered during engine start so it's on the master power bus.

Second on the AP-74 and servo power: The diagrams on 8-3 (of the Dynon Install Manual) show the AP-74 power going to the Avionics Buss, and the servo(s) power going to "Aircraft Power". I asked Dynon if I could power the AP-74 and both servos through one breaker, and they said yes, as long as it was sized correctly. So I'm wiring them through a 5 amp pullable breaker (1.3 amp for each SV-32 servo, and 2 amps for the AP-74). This is also wired to the Avionics Buss (as I don't need the AP-74 or servos on before I turn on the Av Master). Seems OK, in that if the AP goes bonkers on me I can pull one breaker and kill the servos and the AP-74. I know that the AP-74 is just the "communicator" that is sending the EFIS-commanded (D-100 in my case) inputs to the servos, so if pulling that AP breaker didn't do the trick, I could also pull the D-100 breaker to stop all DSAB commands to the servos...but that shouldn't be required, since the servos should die when the AP breaker is pulled.

I just figured that having separate circuits (CB's) for the EFIS's and the AP would allow killing the AP function while sparing the EFIS's for normal flight. And John, along the lines of your last post, my thought and reasoning for powering the AP-74 through the AP CB was primarily to kill it if it shorts and starts smokin'.

Cheers,
Bob

I see your logic in using the same breaker, saves space and saves a few bucks. It also satisfies the need to have a switch for powering the servos and circuit protection for the wires going to the servos. It also serves as circuit protection for the wires going to the AP74. (Although I'm not sold on combining circuits into one breaker, but that's just me.) However, the two aren't really related. The AP74 isn't a communicator between the AP and the servos. The servos are controlled by the EFIS, the AP74 just gives you the convenience of buttons and knobs to control menu items that already exist in the EFIS. (Kinda like using a remote to turn on a TV, you don't need it but it's really nice to have.) If they were wired separately, I don't think turning off power to the AP74 would have an effect on the autopilot, I'm pretty sure it would happily fly the plane without it. At least I hope I'm correct in that.

Don't get me wrong Bob, I don't see anything wrong with the way you are installing yours, I would have done the same thing with the same equipment. What I was trying to point out with my earlier post was how Dynon is different than other autopilots. The original post that started this thread was about a Dynon AP and for those that don't have a Dynon don't realize the difference. You can't turn the AP on and off with a switch as you would with other brands, you have to turn the servos on and off. The AP is in the EFIS, when you buy an EFIS from them you get the AP with it, you just have to add the servos to get the functionality. Add an AP74 expansion module to get dedicated buttons and knobs for the AP function in the EFIS.

 

[rvmills]

John,

Concur with you on all points. The Dynon AP appears to use a different technology to communicate with the servos via DSAB, and I agree with you that if the AP-74 fails or has power removed separately from the servos, the EFIS will likely continue to send commands to the servos via DSAB (like you, that's my understanding anyway). I agree that its a good idea to be able to shed the servos quickly should a spurious AP input occur and the AP disconnect button (for me it's on the sticks) fails to turn off the AP. Important safety consideration, IMHO.

On the EMS buss selection, let me bounce another Q off you, if I may. I hadn't seen the wiki before, but will check it out. I currenty use a VM-1000 for engine instruments, but am considering a future upgrade to an EMS-120 or EMS-10, which would replace the VM on the right side. The goal would be to be able to display the engine instruments on either the right or left side (via DSAB for the left side). I figure I'd need to wire the EMS (on the right panel) to the main buss, and I guess if I want the gauges on the left to display during start on the D-10A I currently have on the left panel, I'd have to re-wire it's power to the main buss as well. Sound correct to you?

Thanks again for the feedback!!

Cheers,
Bob

 

[RatMan]

John,

Concur with you on all points. The Dynon AP appears to use a different technology to communicate with the servos via DSAB, and I agree with you that if the AP-74 fails or has power removed separately from the servos, the EFIS will likely continue to send commands to the servos via DSAB (like you, that's my understanding anyway). I agree that its a good idea to be able to shed the servos quickly should a spurious AP input occur and the AP disconnect button (for me it's on the sticks) fails to turn off the AP. Important safety consideration, IMHO.

On the EMS buss selection, let me bounce another Q off you, if I may. I hadn't seen the wiki before, but will check it out. I currenty use a VM-1000 for engine instruments, but am considering a future upgrade to an EMS-120 or EMS-10, which would replace the VM on the right side. The goal would be to be able to display the engine instruments on either the right or left side (via DSAB for the left side). I figure I'd need to wire the EMS (on the right panel) to the main buss, and I guess if I want the gauges on the left to display during start on the D-10A I currently have on the left panel, I'd have to re-wire it's power to the main buss as well. Sound correct to you?

Thanks again for the feedback!!

Cheers,
Bob

Yes, you would either have to wire it to the master power bus OR us the internal battery to power it up (I think the D10A has a backup battery) till you flip the avionics switch. If it were I and I had all the other wiring to do anyway, I would just go ahead and change it then.

 

[Bill Dicus]

AP power

The Tru Trak in my -8 has: a) CB which can be manually pulled, b) Rocker switch on panel - off until after engine start, c) button on stick which gives pwr on, pwr off and control wheel steering. May be overkill but seems reasonable. Will see how it works next year I hope. Bill

 

[rvator51]

If I ever get time to play, I think I will record some data streams out of the unit to see what sentences get left out when in fast mode.

Hi Brian,

I already did this.

In the "Fast" mode, the Garmin outputs the following sentences:
GPRMC
GPRMB
GPRMH
as well as a series of proprietary garmin sentences then repeats.

In the 'Normal" mode, the Garmin outputs the following sentences:
GPRMC
GPRMB
GPGGA
GPGLL
GPBOD
GPBWC
GPVTG
GPXTE
GPRMH
GPAPB
then the proprietary garmin sentences and repeats.

The Dynon AP needs the following sentences to work with a GPS:
GPRMB
GPRMC
GPGGA
GPBOD or GPAPB

See http://wiki.dynonavionics.com/GPS_Serial_Compatibility_and_Configuration_Settings

So the fast mode needs a couple more sentences before the Dynon AP can use it.

NERD ALERT!!
Heres the fast mode data stream:

$GPRMC,,V,,,,,,,281108,11.9,E,N*03
$GPRMB,V,,,,KFFZ,3327.6450,N,11143.7029,W,,,,V,N*34
$PGRMZ,,f,1*29
$PGRMH,V,,,,,,,*16
$PMRRC041KDVT<>
$PMRRC0512ND5:
$PMRRC0517KT6<
$PMRRC0511IP60
$PMRRC0510F@4<
$PMRRC0510H846
$PMRRC0519HL63

Heres the normal mode data stream"
$GPRMC,,V,,,,,,,281108,11.9,E,N*03
$GPRMB,V,,,,KFFZ,3327.6450,N,11143.7029,W,,,,V,N*34
$GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,,,M,,M,,*66
$GPGLL,,,,,,V,N*64
$GPBOD,,T,,M,KFFZ,*56
$GPBWC,,3327.6450,N,11143.7029,W,,T,,M,,N,KFFZ,N*44
$GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K,N*2C
$GPXTE,V,V,,,N,N*5E
$PGRMH,V,,,,,,,*16
$GPAPB,V,V,,,N,V,V,,,KFFZ,,,,,N*79
$PMRRC041KDVT<>
$PMRRC0512ND5:
$PMRRC0517KT6<
$PMRRC0511IP60
$PMRRC0510F@4<
$PMRRC0510H846
$PMRRC0519HL63
$PMRRC043KFFZ<8
$PMRRC0532F:4:
$PMRRC0534HL60
$PMRRC0530LH5<
$PMRRC0530GL5;
$PMRRC053<JV74
$PMRRC0531I<4>

 

[Scott Hersha]

Dynon Autopilot power

I agree with using a separate circuit breaker/fuse and switch to be able to shut down the servos and leave the EFIS on. One difference worth considering and what I've done (if you have the AP74) is to power the AP74 off the avionics bus. This will allow you to keep all of the DSAB vocal/aural warnings that come through it, which you would loose if you wired it (the AP74) through the same switch as the servos. Dynon recommends using a switched and fused power source for the servos. You will maintain aural warnings with only the EFIS left, but just in basic form.

Scott
FLT DEK180, 2 servos, AP74

BTW.... having trouble updating to 5.0 firmware. EFIS updates, but stops short of updating AP74 and servos, even though they have been recognized. Dynon 'tech support' not much help....

 

[RatMan]

One difference worth considering and what I've done (if you have the AP74) is to power the AP74 off the avionics bus. This will allow you to keep all of the DSAB vocal/aural warnings that come through it, which you would loose if you wired it (the AP74) through the same switch as the servos.

Unless you already have an HS34 giving the voice alerts.

 

[FrankK90989]

BTW.... having trouble updating to 5.0 firmware. EFIS updates, but stops short of updating AP74 and servos, even though they have been recognized. Dynon 'tech support' not much help....[/QUOTE]

Are they already 5.0? Mine came at ver. 5.0

 

[rvmills]

I agree with using a separate circuit breaker/fuse and switch to be able to shut down the servos and leave the EFIS on. One difference worth considering and what I've done (if you have the AP74) is to power the AP74 off the avionics bus. This will allow you to keep all of the DSAB vocal/aural warnings that come through it, which you would loose if you wired it (the AP74) through the same switch as the servos. Dynon recommends using a switched and fused power source for the servos. You will maintain aural warnings with only the EFIS left, but just in basic form.

Scott
FLT DEK180, 2 servos, AP74

BTW.... having trouble updating to 5.0 firmware. EFIS updates, but stops short of updating AP74 and servos, even though they have been recognized. Dynon 'tech support' not much help....

Scott,

If you haven't already found it, the new D-180 install guide talks a bit to each of your discussion points above (it can be found here http://www.dynonavionics.com/downloads/Install_Guides/FlightDEK-D180 Installation Guide.pdf).

On the aural warnings, on the top of page 8-6 it says that you can wire the audio outputs of the EFIS and the AP-74 in parallel to your audio panel/intercom. That way if you lose the AP-74, you can still get EFIS/EMS warnigs via the EFIS's audio output. It also says not to wire the HS-34 (if you have one) audio in parallel to the AP-74...the audio outputs don't play well together.

I know you were talking about powering the servos separately from the AP-74 above, so that if you pulled the breaker/fuse for the servos, you'd still get the AP-74 audio out, but thought I'd mention this alternate means of ensuring you get EFIS/EMS warnings (FWIW ). I've powered my AP-74 and servos through one CB, and my EFIS through another CB, both on the avionics bus (Dynon said that would be OK), but spliced my AP-74 audio out to the existing audio out wire from my EFIS to my GMA 340 to get that parallel audio routing (hope it works! ).

On the 5.0 update, on page 8/13-14 of that D-180 install guide, it talks to that. In the DSAB>Configure menu, take a look at the status of your servos. The way I understand it, if it says "Update Req", you need to run 5.0 for the servos, and if it says "Active", you're good to go. If the update is required on the servos, then you need to run the update again on the D-180/AP Servo selection, which will first tell you the D-180 is already done, and (from what I've read), if you hit cancel, it then moves on to the servos.

Now as a caveat, I have to admit that I should be right where you are, but when I ran 5.0 on my EFIS/AP Servos yesterday, the update failed on my EFIS, and I now have the "blue screen of death" on my D-100...so I can't tell ya from experience that it works as I just described. That'll teach me to try an update on a holiday, when I can't reach tech support on the phone to rescue me!

Good luck, and let me know if (and how) you get it to work, so I can follow your lead (once I get it back from Dynon...if I need to send it in!)

Cheers,
Bob

 

[Scott Hersha]

Dynon Update

On the 5.0 update, on page 8/13-14 of that D-180 install guide, it talks to that. In the DSAB>Configure menu, take a look at the status of your servos. The way I understand it, if it says "Update Req", you need to run 5.0 for the servos, and if it says "Active", you're good to go. If the update is required on the servos, then you need to run the update again on the D-180/AP Servo selection, which will first tell you the D-180 is already done, and (from what I've read), if you hit cancel, it then moves on to the servos.

Bob,
Just as you said, I updated the EFIS to 5.0 and when checking the status of my servos, it says 'update req'. Only problem is, when I tried to update again on the D-180/AP servo selection, it wouldn't work. It said it's already updated, and nothing works (except the EFIS). The Dynon tech rep didn't seem to understand the problem. As of now, everything is opened up for servo access and nothing is working. I don't understand why you have to update servos. They are not computers. They are motors that receive input through the DSAB. As long as the EFIS recognizes the servos (and it does) it seems like it should work. My friend Jon Thocker hasn't been able to get his going either - same problem. I'm not happy with the way Dynon updates their products. Seems to be problematic.

Scott

 

[rvmills]

Bob,
Just as you said, I updated the EFIS to 5.0 and when checking the status of my servos, it says 'update req'. Only problem is, when I tried to update again on the D-180/AP servo selection, it wouldn't work. It said it's already updated, and nothing works (except the EFIS). The Dynon tech rep didn't seem to understand the problem. As of now, everything is opened up for servo access and nothing is working. I don't understand why you have to update servos. They are not computers. They are motors that receive input through the DSAB. As long as the EFIS recognizes the servos (and it does) it seems like it should work. My friend Jon Thocker hasn't been able to get his going either - same problem. I'm not happy with the way Dynon updates their products. Seems to be problematic.

Scott

Scott,

From what I've read, the servos actually do have processors or some sort of "intel". The are said to communicate status back to the Bus Master...thus the need for them to be running 5.0. When you attempt the re-update of the D-180/AP Servos, is there a "cancel" button anywhere? Supposedly if you hit cancel when it says "D-180 already updated", it sequences to the AP servos. However, I can't find where I read that (may have been on the Dynon site or forum...I'll look tomorrow and see if can find it, and post a ref).

Jaime Painter has his up and running, and Bill Repucci is a Beta tester, so maybe they'll see this and post what they know!

I'll be talking to Dynon tech support on Monday, and will ask them as well. Keep pluggin', and good luck!

Cheers,
Bob

 

[Bill Dicus]

Brian: The Tru Trak manual specifically mentions this and says the autopilot should be protected from voltage transients associated with engine start. Worst is the Garmin GTX 330 which says it needs protections from these as well but turns on automatically as soon as power is applied to the bus! Bill

 

[Scott Hersha]

Auto pilot power/programming

Well the Dynon autopilot install isn't going so well. I was on the phone with Mike at Dynon for about an hour today and so far we have been unable to update my components to the 5.0 firmware edition. The EFIS updates, but nothing else. Mike walked me through the program, but it didn't work. The EFIS (FLTDEK 180) recognizes the servos and the AP74, but the Dynon Support program does not. The servos and AP74 has been configured and installed/wired correctly, but the DSAB menu says 'update required', but though Dynon support firmware running on the laptop doesn't 'see' them. I've tried 3 different computers and they all are the same. I think there are others that have experienced this problem. If there are, please let me know if you've figured it out. Jon Thocker was having the same problem and Dynon is sending him a new -180. Maybe that will help.

Scott Hersha
RV8 QB

 

[rvmills]

Scott,

I also spent some time on the phone with Mike and Ian at Dynon, trying to get my D-100 (Bus Master) to redo the failed 5.0 update. Ended up sending the 100 back to them for the fix and a 5.0 install. I was successful in getting the D-10A upgraded to 5.0 (whew), but need to wait till I get the 100 back and do a DSAB configuration before I make a move on updating the servos. If it works, I'll let ya know what I did, step by step.

Since you've talked to them, I figure you've already tried redoing the D-180 firmware update, and then hitting OK when it tells you the 180 is already done, to see if it moves on to the servos. When you do that, do you see that message and an OK button? (Just wonderin', as I hope that goes as advertised when I try it.)

Also...just scheming here...have you considered doing another configuration of everything on the DSAB, and then re-attempting the 5.0 update on the 180 to see if it moves on the servos?

Gotta be frustrating...we'll see next week when I get the 100 back if I run into the same dead end. Back atcha when I give it a go.

Cheers,
Bob

 

[FrankK90989]

If you have time

Things I might try If this happend to me.
Go back to version 4.0 then try again.
Disconnect the AP74 (from DSAB) and try to update just the servos.
Disconnect the servos and try to update just the AP74.
Might isolate a 'problem child'

 

[Scott Hersha]

Auto Pilot Power/programming

I tried everything as you said, but no joy. I get an internal error message now and I'm sure I'll have to send it back. Jon Thocker sent his back, they gave him a new FLT DEK 180, he installed it today, upgraded it and everything works. They must have a bad batch of instruments. I tried contacting Dynon support today, but they didn't return my call. I'm guessing they have their hands full right now, trying to figure out how to introduce an auto-pilot. They probably should have done a little more testing before releasing it. It's either a software problem or a problem with the hardware interfacing with the software. Hope they figure it out. I originally built my plane configured for a Tru-Trak, so I guess I could go back to that if I need to.

Scott

 

[rvmills]

I tried everything as you said, but no joy. I get an internal error message now and I'm sure I'll have to send it back. Jon Thocker sent his back, they gave him a new FLT DEK 180, he installed it today, upgraded it and everything works. They must have a bad batch of instruments. I tried contacting Dynon support today, but they didn't return my call. I'm guessing they have their hands full right now, trying to figure out how to introduce an auto-pilot. They probably should have done a little more testing before releasing it. It's either a software problem or a problem with the hardware interfacing with the software. Hope they figure it out. I originally built my plane configured for a Tru-Trak, so I guess I could go back to that if I need to.

Scott

Scott,

I received my D-100 back from Dynon with a fresh 5.0 upgrade, and installed it today. I was able to update the AP-74 and servos by doing the following:

Did a DSAB configuration, and AP-74 and servos were detected OK.

I then ran the 5.0 update on the D-100 again, and it first asked if I wanted to back it up. I said yes, and it asked what files I wanted to back up, so I left all options checked, and ran the backup.

Next pop-up said that the D-100 had the current firmware, and the update was being aborted. I hit OK, and it moved on to the servos, and the next window asked what files on the servo I wanted to back up. Again, I left all boxes checked and hit OK. It ran through the backup, and then the update (and it appears to do both servos in one step).

Next it moved on to the AP-74, and asked the same backup question. I followed the same process, and the AP-74 was backed up then updated.

You may have already done (or tried) all of this, but my thought is that if you start from a fresh DSAB config, and move through each step (and do the backup then let it run to the update), then perhaps it will work.

If all that has already failed, then perhaps it will need to go back for the 5.0 innoculation, then a do-over of the entire process upon return. I did notice that my returned unit, with 5.0 and factory recal, required me to reconfigure the DSAB, so the fresh, ground floor re-do may be what does the trick.

Hope this works for you, or helps a bit (if nothing more than to say I feel your pain!) Dynon was very helpful, and turned the unit in just a few days, from send to reciept.

Tomorrow it's AP cal and testing (keep your fingers crossed!)

Cheers,
Bob

 

[Scott Hersha]

Auto Pilot Power/programming

I sent my D-180 back to Dynon and it is now on it's way back home to me after the 'innoculation' . Hopefully everything will work now, as in your case.

Scott

 

[Scott Hersha]

Auto Pilot Power/programming

Bob,
Well.... I'm still trying to get this Dynon autopilot unit upgraded and working and the list of things going wrong keeps getting longer.... After sending my FlightDek 180 in and getting it back, I've tried to update the unit/servos/AP74 - all to no avail. The problem now seems to be the ability of the computer to recognize the serial cable. Since I don't have a PC (I have a MAC), I've had to borrow other peoples laptops. So far I've used 4 different laptops, and none of them have worked. This time it was my son-in-law's Dell and after spending 2 hours trying to get things to work and downloading the driver for the cable 3 times, I find out it's a 'Vista' windows OS and the driver at the Dynon website isn't compatible with it (it says so on their website). I not only didn't know it was a Vista, I didn't know what the difference was. It seems as though you have to have a specific computer and specific operating system to get this Dynon to actually work. It would help to be a computer programmer too and have the ability to speak in code... Vista downloads cable drivers automatically - at least that's what is supposed to happen. Of course since it's a Dell and a PC it doesn't always (never in my case) work as advertised. Mike and Eric at Dynon are trying to figure out how to find a cable driver that will work. I've been on the phone all day with them and apparently Eric was fired because when I called him back as requested, they said he doesn't work there anymore... Eric, I understand your frustration!! Of course, if I ever get the cable to work, the upgrade still may not. I keep asking myself why I changed my mind and went with the Dynon autopilot instead of sticking with the TruTrak. I had a TruTrak on my RV-6 and all I had to do was install it, hook up the wires and it just worked - very well in fact. I didn't have to take any computer programming courses, buy a $1500.00 substandard laptop with an outdated operating system, or anything like that. It just worked out of the box like it was supposed to. I've wasted 3 weeks at right near the end of my phase I flight test trying to get an ill concieved product to work.... If you can tell I'm venting, you're very perceptive.... Anybody want to buy a new Dynon Autopilot and AP74 - never used - for obvious reasons.....

Scott

 

[Scott Hersha]

auto Pilot Power/programming

Eric found a cable driver somewhere in cyberspace (he wasn't fired apparently), I installed it and it is loaded on the laptop (yea!!). Tomorrow I'll try again to do the upgrade to the 5.0.0 and see if it works. If any of you are building, don't do as i did and install a D-sub interface panel to do uploads to your Dynon/Garmin units. The cable that Dynon sells is way too short (about a foot) and you need to leave your interface wires from the Dynon unit long to reach outside the front of the panel - unlike mine. I have to hold the laptop right up next to the IP while I'm doing an upgrade because of the short cable and cool, but not very useable interface panel I made.

Scott

 

[49clipper]

49clipper

Here's a possibly dumb question. With my TT ADI II, do I have to power that up prior to takeoff for it to work correctly? Or, can I power up during cruise to use it? With a gps signal not installed yet ( I cannot determine which wire on KLX135A to use), it constantly turns left if I turn it on in flight. I went thru the setup procedure per the manual and set all the parameters like torque, etc. The pitch also varies a lot (like +/_ fiflty feet).

 

[rvmills]

Eric found a cable driver somewhere in cyberspace (he wasn't fired apparently), I installed it and it is loaded on the laptop (yea!!). Tomorrow I'll try again to do the upgrade to the 5.0.0 and see if it works. If any of you are building, don't do as i did and install a D-sub interface panel to do uploads to your Dynon/Garmin units. The cable that Dynon sells is way too short (about a foot) and you need to leave your interface wires from the Dynon unit long to reach outside the front of the panel - unlike mine. I have to hold the laptop right up next to the IP while I'm doing an upgrade because of the short cable and cool, but not very useable interface panel I made.

Scott

Scott,

Well, I'm thinking you have the patience of Job! It'll pay off, brudda! Some thoughts...

For the cable length issue, you might try putting a cardboard box on the floor between your legs to rest the computer on while you do the update...might keep your arms from getting tired...or keep you from throwing the computer overboard if it gets finicky during the update!

Once you have the driver installed, and the USB to Serial Cable is found by the computer and installed (that should happen automatically when you plug it in the USB port) you will be ready to plug the serial end into the EFIS, but...

Before you plug the cable to the EFIS, do a configuration on the DSAB, and make sure it is seeing all of your Dynon items (it'll be 4 items if you have an EFIS, two servos, and an AP-74, more if you have other Dynon items DSAB'd, less if you do not have an AP-74).

Once you configure your DSAB and your serial cable is hooked up to the Dynon, if the DS program still doesn't find the EFIS, take a look at the comm ports that the DS program is searching through (that number cycles at the bottom of the update window). Then go into your computer's Device Manager, open up the comm ports section, and look for which comm port the USB to Serial cable is using. If it is not one of the ones the DS program is cycling through it won't find the EFIS. This happened to me, as my USB port was Comm 29, and the DS program was only searching Comm 1 to Comm 14. I highlighted Comm 29 and renamed it Comm 2, as that was an unused port. Once I did that, the program found the EFIS.

When you are running the update, make sure your computer is plugged into a power outlet, and make sure you are running on ship's power (not just the EFIS's back up battery).

Once the program finds the EFIS, check which firmware update you have on the EFIS...it should be 5.0 after the service at the factory. Then do a firmware update to 5.0 on the D-180/AP selection, even if the EFIS is already 5.0. It will ask if you want to back up the current firmware, so say yes. It will then give you a list of files to back up, so leave them all checked, and hit OK. It will start the backup, and then will pop up a window that says you already have the current firmware. Hit OK, and it will cycle to either the AP-74 or one of the servos. It will again ask if you want to back it up, and I again left all the options checked and hit OK. It did the update, and then moved to the next item and did the same process for each Dynon item. In an earlier post, I mentioned that I thought the update program did both servos together. I was wrong on that, and found out my DSAB was not seeing my pitch servo. After testing all my connections and wires, and putting my pitch servo quick disconnect back together, I did another DSAB config, and it found the pitch servo. Long story short, each item needs to be updated individually, and my earlier statement about the servos updating toghether was incorrect.

Once you have all items on 5.0, you should be ready to go on to servo calibration and test, per the install manual.

If you have any glitches, and can't get Dynon on the phone over the holiday, feel free to give me a call anytime (775) 544-3511. I won't claim to be a tech rep, but maybe I can help you muddle through it!

If you already had all of this wired down, apologies for the long diatribe, but if it helps, all the better!

Good luck...you'll get it...and it'll be a nice XMAS present!

Merry Christmas!

Cheers,
Bob

 

[RatMan]

Worst is the Garmin GTX 330 which says it needs protections from these as well but turns on automatically as soon as power is applied to the bus! Bill

Bill,

If you don't want the 330 powered up when the bus power is applied, go through the settings and turn that option off. Pretty straight forward if you have the installation manual.

 

[Scott Hersha]

Auto Pilot Power/programming

Bob,
Thanks for the great info and help. After getting the -180 back from Dynon, I configured the servos and AP74 as you suggested. Then, for the last few days, I've had access to my son-in-laws Dell laptop, so I have been able to try the updates. I went through the configuration again when I had the computer hooked up just to be sure. When I selected check firmware version, the EFIS screen turned Yellow, which I think means it is communicating with the laptop, and it started searching through comm ports. After doing this for a couple minutes I got the error message saying the FlightDek-180 can't find instrument on any serial port. I tried plugging in to all four USB ports (at least twice) and went through the whole process several times and it just couldn't find it. It's new news to me that there are so many comm port (29 you say?). I thought there were 4. I did see it say in the search comm 7 once, and that didn't make sense to me. At any rate, it didn't work and the screen stayed Yellow the whole time. It said not to power down if the update didn't take - call Dynon istead, but I would have to leave it on for a couple days waiting for someone at Dynon to come in to work (today is Christmas). Lesson to self: don't even try to update outside the normal business hours of Dynon Avionics. I had to power it down and of course when I powered back up, everything seems to be working - not the autopilot of course. If you are required to get inside your computer and re-program your comm ports, why wouldn't Dynon tell you that???? In my humble and totally frustrated opinion, Dynon's update method is entirely unacceptable. I'm almost done with my phase I - even though I've flown very little the last 3 weeks because of this Dynon fiasco - so I'm just going to forget about it for now, finish the flight test and take it to the paint shop next Wednesday. While it's down for paint, I'll either remove the servos and AP74 and send them back to Dynon for a refund, or they'll come up with some majical way of making this collection of useless parts work before then. I know the TruTrak works right out of the box, and it works well. The reports I've gotten from a couple lucky Dynon autopilot operators that somehow got theirs to work is that it doesn't work that well anyway - won't hold altitude within 100 feet, heading wanders +- 10 degrees. I wonder what the beta testers found. What kind of performance have you gotten from your autopilot? I was a big Dynon fan before all this.... I'm not anymore.

Scott

 

[rvmills]

Changing the comm port

Scott,

I feel your pain brudda...tried to do my first update over the Thanksgiving holiday, and saw very much what you are seeing (yellow screen, no connection between the computer and EFIS, etc.) I know it's frustrating, and it would be nice if the update were simpler, but once it works, it's pretty slick...we just gotta get ya there!

And the AP itself has worked pretty well. Still some tweaking to do, but it does hold a heading, a NAV track and altitude pretty well. Still a little hunting, but maybe a few degrees in HDG, and 10 feet or so in ALT...I'm still playing with the sensitivity to make it feel as smooth as possible. The one area I've not played with enough is changing altitude. On the last flight, when I changed the altitude selection from cruise to pattern altitude (in an effort to set up a 500 fpm descent to the pattern) it chased the VSI...down to 800+ up to almost level, back down. More sensitivity training required...and probably some manual trim technique learning on my part as well. I still have to work on it, as I've only done 4 flights with it (3 short, and one with any real time on a track at altitude) so I'm pretty hopeful so far.

On the comm ports, I was also surprised that I had a comm 29, and I was surprised at the number of comm ports listed in the Device Manager. I muddled through to changing it to comm 2, and that's when it finally worked. Just tried to replicate that process so I could explain it, but it wouldn't work at home (I left the cable at the hangar). I'm heading out to the hangar tomorrow, and will see if I can re-do it with it all plugged in out there. If you'd like, give me a call at (775) 544-3511, say at 1200 PST if that works, and we can play "blind leading the blind" and see if we can get yours to work.

If we don't hook up, I'll post or shoot you a PM with whatever ideas I can muster to help out.

Cheers,
Bob

 

[flickroll]

Well I guess I am a lucky one. Lucky that I had a Dell laptop with a serial port that's running XP and lucky that the firmware update process has been a breeze. The Dynon software finds the devices on comm1. Yes I wish they were using USB but the process they have seems to be working OK for me. My plane is still not flying so I can't report on AP performance but so far everything is A-OK.

Jim Shannon
RV-8 N52VV
Charlottesville, VA

 

[Scott Hersha]

Autopilot Power/Installation

Eureka!!!! It works. I went out and bought a new (small) laptop - a netbook. It has Window XP. I bouught a 6 foot USB-serial interface cable from Radio Shack, downloaded the firmware, installed the cable driver, and it actually worked. I checked my wiring first, but was sure I had it right - I did. As soon as I hooked everything up and started the process, I knew I had it right. The only thing I can figure is that the Dynon cable (the little stubby one) was the problem. The autopilot is configured and ground tested and tomorrow I'll flight test it. I can't wait....

Scott

 

[rvmills]

Eureka!!!! It works. I went out and bought a new (small) laptop - a netbook. It has Window XP. I bouught a 6 foot USB-serial interface cable from Radio Shack, downloaded the firmware, installed the cable driver, and it actually worked. I checked my wiring first, but was sure I had it right - I did. As soon as I hooked everything up and started the process, I knew I had it right. The only thing I can figure is that the Dynon cable (the little stubby one) was the problem. The autopilot is configured and ground tested and tomorrow I'll flight test it. I can't wait....

Scott

Woo Hoo!! Good stuff Scott! I think you get the perseverence award on this one!

Nice talking with your today and doinkin' with our GPS's over the phone to find that Advanced NMEA menu!

Looking forward to hearing about your flight tests, and seeing pix when you have your 8 painted!

Way to go!

Cheers,
Bob