Departure?

Wonder when it will depart...would love to get some photos of it....especially since I was in Florida watching it LIVE when it launched!
 
Looking out the window.

I'm looking out my office window at the shuttle right now. It's about 300 yards away. Pretty cool.
 
There are several different potential plans for the departure tomorrow (including NOT departing tomorrow), so I hate to steer anyone into believing that if they go out there at a certain time, that they'll see it go. This should be familiar to every RV'ator - when the trip depends on VFR weather, you have to stay flexible, and roll with the weather!

Any time between sunrise and noon is possible....
 
Way back when

A long, long time ago I came home from work and my Dad said the Shuttle is at Denver's Stapleton Airport and that I had to go and see it. He threw me the keys to his 240Z and off I went to see Enterprise parked atop a 747. What an awesome site to see. I will never forget that night.
 
Anyone in DFW for 11 DEC 2008 morning

I heard that the Space Shuttle is making a stop in the DFW area.

"The aircraft is scheduled to stay overnight at the Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base in Fort Worth and then leave Thursday at sunrise."

Now I'm way down here in Killeen, so won't be able to see this...but may be of interest to anyone in DFW area. Don't know of the feasibility (or any TFRs), but could provide an interesting and once in a life time air-to-air photo shoots.

I'm just jealous it didn't land down here at GRK!!

-Greg
 
I just heard "1100am at the earliest" on the 6am news. Winds from the north today, so park north of 820 somewhere. if you want to (maybe) see it fly over..

b,
d
 
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Space Shuttle: Non-RV, but kinda related (Paul Dye)

Its a stretch, but its kinda related to a fellow RV'er. :D The 747 carrying the shuttle landed in Ft Worth yesterday, and is departing this morning for barksdale AFB. I was going to post this in the Texas Forum, but figured some of you LA guys might want to sneek a peek of it coming in... Here it is siting at KNFW, and here is the flight plan...

shuttle.jpg


http://flightaware.com/live/flight/NASA911/history/20081211/1710Z/KNFW/KBAD
 
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Just out of curiosity... why are they making so many stops?? The 747 can fly non-stop to china! Does the shuttle induce so much drag that it has to stop every 2 - 3 hours to refuel? :confused:
 
Just out of curiosity... why are they making so many stops?? The 747 can fly non-stop to china! Does the shuttle induce so much drag that it has to stop every 2 - 3 hours to refuel? :confused:
I believe their reason was weather.
 
It just flew over...

Just went over my house, and on a perfectly clear day! I had the binoc's out and forgot I have a telephoto lens for the camera....sorry, didn't get a pic but it sure was a cool sight.

BTW, the FlightAware software is WAY behind. Even doing a constant refresh, it was way behind on showing where the shuttle/transport 747 really were. You can see the local freeways on their map and while it still showed them north of Fort Worth, I had already seen then go over me way-way to the south of what the image showed. If you are watching for it, keep this in mind. If it is tracking your way, it will be over you long before the image/tracking shows it to be.
 
A well-known RV Spy on a hill near Carswell reported liftoff at 1106 local time.

The combo has to make so many stops because a 747's fuel consumption at low altitudes with a heavy payload is astronomical! Ferry flights are limited to low altitudes to prevent freezing in dormant Shuttle systems.

The route today is to give the folks here at JSC a chance to see an Orbiter again (been a very long time since it's last appearance), and they'll stop at Barksdale to wait for the weather to clear to the east. Hopefully, home to KSC tomorrow.

Paul
 
My guess is yes

Just out of curiosity... why are they making so many stops?? The 747 can fly non-stop to china! Does the shuttle induce so much drag that it has to stop every 2 - 3 hours to refuel? :confused:

I think the drag and weight are the issues. The shuttle is about 250k which is about the max cargo weight for a 747. Then you put a whole other aircraft on top of it. That is a lot of drag. If you notice they only fly 310 knots at 15,000 msl. Looks like a weight and drag issue. Where is our NASA rep to answer this?
 
We just had a good fly-by here in Houston - a bright sunny day with a 747/Orbiter doing a low pass - that made for a pretty nice lunch hour!

Now on it's way to lovely Bossier City, Louisiana....

Paul
 
We just had a good fly-by here in Houston - a bright sunny day with a 747/Orbiter doing a low pass - that made for a pretty nice lunch hour!

Now on it's way to lovely Bossier City, Louisiana....

Paul

Paul, how does the shuttle affect the W&B? I would assume it is pretty heavy in the aft end... do they counterbalance the plane somehow? Or will it handle it with no problems? (just being nosy)
 
Shuttle Escort

You will see at least one MDC C-17 from Travis AB, flying in advance of the shuttle to explore the best routings. It is being flown by a friend of mine. Needless to say, he was pretty jazzed to have the opportunity to fly this mission.
My buddy does not have any GA experience, but we have a date towards the end of the month to give him an RV grin. Hopefully, we will have a new RV'er sometime in the near future.
 
Shuttle Pictures...way to go, Doug!

Great series of photos, Oh High Commander! :p
I have sent your link to some of my fellow worker-bees here at NASA.
Don
P.S. It makes the heart of this humble civil servant glad to see so many people lined up beside the highway to watch the Shuttle Ferry Flight. There won't be many more opportunities to see Endeavour, Atlantis or Discovery, so I encourage everyone reading this to go see in person a launch, a landing or this ferry flight. This MAY be the last ferry flight from EAFB to KSC.
Right now there is really YUCKY weather in the Southeast. Some schools here in north Alabama are already closing. (Not sure that it's gonna be that bad.) So stay tuned for the flight from Barksdale AFB to KSC...tomorrow, weather permitting.
 
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Paul (or anyone in the know):

What happens if the shuttle launch aborts and they land in Europe. Can the 747/shuttle combo make the trans-Atlantic flight (doesn't appear to be the case) or would they put it on a ship?
 
Shuttle Ground Turnaround for Transatlantic Abort

Paul (or anyone in the know):

What happens if the shuttle launch aborts and they land in Europe. Can the 747/shuttle combo make the trans-Atlantic flight (doesn't appear to be the case) or would they put it on a ship?

Jamie, That's a very good question. In fact it's so easy to answer, I'm gonna let my chauffer in the back of the room answer that one. His name is Paul Dye. Paul, come up to the microphone and answer that question, please.

(Y'all have heard that Jerry Clower joke, haven't you?) [ A quick search reveals Clower was not the only person to tell a version of this story. Check the Snopes site here. ]

Seriously, I looked on this page, but I didn't find the answer. I'm sure Paul can answer it, though.
 
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Jaime / Don,

Well, I'm no chauffer for Jerry Clower (or for Professor Dye either), but Yes, the 747/Shuttle combo can be ferried back from Europe after a Trans-atlantic Abort Landing (TAL), but the ferry operations are MUCH more difficult to accomplish.

Basically, the distances between possible refueling stops dictate that the Orbiter's weight be reduced. (presummably to permit more fuel weight to be loaded onto the aircraft) Depending on the payload for that particular mission, the amount of time & effort to get the orbiter's weight down can be considerable. You may have to remove things like the primary payload, the 3 main engines, crew-seats, wheel brakes, tires, all unused consummables, such as propellants, etc. etc. Basically, the recovery crew from here at Kennedy can plan to spend at least a month or two at the overseas landing site prepping the Shuttle for return.

This flight had a landing weight of around 221,980 lbs. Some of that weight got removed at EDW AFB (i.e. flight-crew equipment, mid-deck lockers . . . astronauts) However, some weight was added back for the ferry flight, such as the large tail-cone assembly & some ballast. Not sure what the final ferry weight turned out to be, but the large pressurized logistics module is still in the payload bay.

One reference I found says:

"Certain weight reductions (to orbiter weight of 217,000 pounds) may be required for a ferry flight from Spain or France; this is particularly true if an attempt is made to avoid the northern route through Scotland, Iceland, Greenland, and Canada during certain winter months when extremes of weather and very short daylight periods occur."

There are some really smart folks who work mass-properties & do the weight & CG calculations for each ferry flight configuration. They would tell us how extreme the weight reductions would need to be in order to make a trans-atlantic ferry possible.

Maybe we'll see Endeavour here at KSC late tomorrow!
BTW, I love that Jerry Clower joke
 
There it is folks...straight from Jerry Clower's chauffer. Thanks, Les.

Paul did send me a PM (he's in meetings today) that a "Slow Boat from Europe" is also a possibility.

One thing that has impressed me during my years at NASA is the incredible amount of "what if?" planning, also called "contingency planning" that goes on for Shuttle operations.

I'm glad y'all are interested in the Shuttle program. Take the time to tell your Congressmen and Senators what it means to you.

Don
 
Haaah - Marcel!

Great info and great pictures Doug! There are some reasonably high IQs amongst the NASA folks in the RV community.:cool: Always enjoy these posts!
 
What is next after the shuttle? And is it true we have a wait of 5 years for the next U.S. transport to the ISS? WTH??
 
Constellation Program

What is next after the shuttle? And is it true we have a wait of 5 years for the next U.S. transport to the ISS? WTH??

After the shuttle program ends (2010), we plan to continue space exploration with the Constellation Program. I'm not sure of the exact timing, but 5 years sounds close. In the meantime, plans call for our astronauts to travel between earth and the International Space Station on Russian hardware. For those of us who remember seeing Sputnik go across the night sky, all we can say is, "This world is a-changing!"

Back to the Constellation program, there are two vehicles presently being designed. Humans will ride on the Crew Launch Vehicle and Cargo will be transported on the Cargo Launch Vehicle. (You don't have to be a Rocket Scientist to come up with these names!!!) The launch vehicles are named the Ares I and the Ares V (Ares "one" and Ares "Five"). The video linked above shows how the Orion crew capsule will dock with the Ares V and travel on to the moon. Pretty exciting stuff. This link tells about the naming of the launch vehicles. I think they should have been named "Aries" instead of "Ares," but they didn't ask me. If you want to know why, just Google the two names and see what you discover! Oh well, onward and upward!
Don out!
 
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There it is folks...straight from Jerry Clower's chauffer. Thanks, Les.

I'm glad y'all are interested in the Shuttle program. Take the time to tell your Congressmen and Senators what it means to you.

Don

Not only that............ We just like short wing aircraft........:)
 
Jaime / Don,

Well, I'm no chauffer for Jerry Clower (or for Professor Dye either)...

Hey, I never argue with the KSC guys when it comes to vehicle processing - they're the world's best!

If we ever put one down in Hawaii, they're gonna have to take it apart and MAIL it back!

We just fly 'em, power 'em down, and walk away....the way God intended Flight ops people to act....:rolleyes:

Paul
 
Doug, outstanding photos! Thanks for sharing.

Those that are not amazed by the accomplishments of those involved with the shuttle don't get it.
 
RV hold short for departing traffic, caution WAKE TURBULANCE! :D

Nice pictures! Wish I could've been there.
 
Nice of them to fly over JSC. I'm crossing my fingers and toes that they fly over MSFC in northern Alabama too.
 
Endeavour arrives at home port

Gear down, Flaps down & on Final for KSC RNWY-33

Duncil%20SCA1%2012-12-08.JPG

Photo credit: Duncil

The last of the crummy weather cleared out mid-morning. 747 & Orbiter arrived in the area around 2:45 EST; made one low pass down the runway w/ the gear up, then once around the pattern for a full stop. What a great place to work!
 
I missed it....

We just had a good fly-by here in Houston - a bright sunny day with a 747/Orbiter doing a low pass - that made for a pretty nice lunch hour!

Now on it's way to lovely Bossier City, Louisiana....

Paul


....but it was doing the Houston flyover the same time I was talking to Houston Approach arriving at Sugarland.

Lot's of talk (mainly numbers, it was hard to follow) on the radio.

We also heard it on ABQ center the day before...

An inflight sighting would have been nice....:)