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Christopher Murphy

Well Known Member
I love looking at all the fancy doo dads everyone is putting into their RVs nowadays. EFIS displays with a 1000 features to look at. Stereo MP3,CD/DVD players. Digital autopilots that hook up to anything. Tracking devices, Sat. recievers with wx displays. Wow!

Let me ask you, are you the guy that keeps flying at me at the same altitude inspite of my turning on the smoke system, zig zagging, flashing the wings, turning on the landing lights... but just keeps on motoring unflinchingly dead on into a close encounter? Do you ever look outside of your airplane? I can't believe how many times this has happened.

Maybe its time to start looking outside instead of fooling with all of that cool stuff you have in your airplane. My airplane is not hard to see its Viper Yellow for crying out loud. Look ahead more than 15 inches and you might see whats in front of you.

Something to think about.... hoping to start a discussion

Chris M.
 
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The only time I concentrate on the panel is when I am in the clouds - i personally prefer visual traffic recognition from a good scan (in VFR conditions) to a TCAS....since not all the traffic out there is going to show up on the fancy gizmo.

Yes, there are definitely folks out there that spend too much time with their eyes inside, but it is not the fault of the airplane or the equipment - it is the fault of the pilot who isn't prioritizing their time.

Paul
 
I have had this happen to me also!

Chris,
I have had the same experience in the past, although I was not in an RV nor was the offending aircraft an RV.

I too had a close encounter (almost of the third kind) with a Bonanza driver. I was flying to the NW at 4500' heading back from a fly-in. A friend was ahead of me approx. 2 miles at the same altitude. It was a VFR day with some high wispy clouds. My aircraft had a cruise speed of about 70 MPH. Needless to say I was moving along at a leisurely and steady pace. Just enjoying the experience of flying.

Everything was going along just peachy until my friend came on over the radio.

"Steve, heads up!! You have traffic at your 12 O' Clock!!

My aircraft had great visibility and I was strictly VFR, meaning I was looking out the window, but I was unable to see this fast moving Bonanza until my friend came over the radio.

The Bonanza was dead ahead of me at my altitude, heading in the exact opposite direction from my heading. Did I mention I was at 4500' heading NW (300 degree heading)?

From the time my friend notified me over the radio until the Bonanza was upon me was about 10 seconds max! I had just enough time to look straight ahead, notice the blazingly fast closing speed the dot in front of me was coming at me, and instinctively shove the stick forward as fast as I could. I dove below the path of the Bonanza as he screamed just 20 or 30 feet over the top of me!

That plane never altered its course once, not before he came upon me, not while he flew over the top of me, and not afterward as he continued on past me on the same heading and at the same altitude. It was as if he never even new I existed.

In the meantime, I was diving my high drag, slow flying light airplane in an attempt to save my life in a drastic emergency maneuver my plane was not designed to accomplish. My airplane cruised at 70 MPH and had a Vne of 100 MPH. I can now tell anyone who asks how long it takes to increase 30 MPH in an emergency maneuver. Now, I was not counting the seconds nor was I staring at the AI but I knew instantly I had reached the Vne for my little airplane. Every square inch of that airplane was complaining about it by vibrating, shaking, and had I been able to hear, most likely screaming at me to PULL UP!!! I quickly pulled the stick back after clearing this screaming banshee of a Bonanza's path but I had already exceeded the Vne in a split second.

Needless to say, I did a thorough inspection of everything I could examine on my airplane upon landing. Luckily, there was no long term effects of this short excursion beyond the Vne. However, I vowed to never experience that again.

I can only surmise that the Bonanza driver was head down, paying little to no attention to what was going on outside his window. I know that had my friend not piped up over the radio I might not have survived my encounter. Incidentally, he quickly notified me because he also had just that instant come face to face with this same Bonanza. He was able to avoid it more easily without the drastic measures I had to take. I don't know what was going on with that Bonanza driver. I never found out any details about who it was or where the plane came from but I sure would like to find out. I would like to ask him what he was doing traveling almost due East at 4500' without paying attention to what was going on outside his window.

I hope no one here has experienced this type of incident personally, from either perspective. From my perspective it scared the ***** out of me.
 
RVbySDI said:
... Did I mention I was at 4500' heading NW (300 degree heading)?...
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Good to see you are still with us!

This is a pet peeve of mine. People put those fish finders in their airplanes and think they are safe from the outside world. Not only are there a lot of aircraft that don't have electrical systems, thus no transponders (and no way to add an electrical system), but there are a lot of people flying around with their transponder in "stand by" mode.

Remember the East - West cruising altitude rule only applies when above 3000' AGL, not MSL. Not that everyone obeys that rule.
 
A good story Steve. One thing to remember is that even though you (a general "you") may be on the correct altitude for your direction of flight, it doesn't mean other aircraft flying in the opposite direction won't be climbing or descending through your altitude. Not saying this Bonanza guy was climbing or descending, but the direction of flight rule can only protect us so much. I've had three very-near miss encounters, all while flying heads-up VFR (one of them I was even with Miami on VFR flight following). The tough part about seeing and avoiding is the most dangerous threats (collision course) are the least detectable (no apparent movement in your window). Fly safe.
 
Flyfalcons said:
. . . it doesn't mean other aircraft flying in the opposite direction won't be climbing or descending through your altitude. . .
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That is true. I use the east-west altitudes whenever I fly, especially when flying cross country. When I am climbing or descending through the "opposite" altitudes to get to my cruising altitudes I work extra hard to pay attention out the window for traffic. It is a very critical time during the climb that can cause problems if one is not keeping diligent watch.

In this particular instance the Bonanza was not climbing or descending. It was cruising straight and steady at 4500' heading East/SE. It continued on that heading and altitude until I could no longer see it as I turned back to see where it was heading.
 
It's not just people with fishfinders....

I recall clearly back in the early 90's, when the sky was busy with steam guage certified aircraft, me included, I had a similar close call. I'll bet most pilots can recall a similar-type event. It really reinforces with me the importance of pilot attention outside the cockpit. You can count on yourself, (hopefully) but unfortunately the other pilot is most likely a stranger to you. In my case, the opposing aircraft was a low wing cherokee and I was in a cessna. I climbed. He descended. The sun was directly in his eyes and I am certain that played a part, although I'll never know for sure.:eek: Time for staring at your nice glass panel is in the hangar while you learn it thoroughly.
 
N941WR said:
Good to see you are still with us!

This is a pet peeve of mine. People put those fish finders in their airplanes and think they are safe from the outside world. Not only are there a lot of aircraft that don't have electrical systems, thus no transponders (and no way to add an electrical system), but there are a lot of people flying around with their transponder in "stand by" mode.
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And................my unit only responds to interrogations from radar, be it ground radar or from another aircraft equipped with on-board radar. If no interrogation is present, my traffic monitor does nothing. It's sure useful in the airspace around our airport, though.

L.Adamson -- RV6A
 
not about the equipment... totally

Next time you are out flying either locally or on a trip. Just try to notice how much you fool with the equipment vs. looking outside. I think gadgets are nice but these things are a magnet that gets you focused inside the aircraft. If You are IFR under radar control, probably not going to get suprised but VFR look outside. You may not see all the traffic but the more you look out the better chance you have of seeing me doing wing overs with the smoke on in front of you.

good discussion.

CM
 
Geography plays a part also. Some segments of airspace are far more congested than others. When I was in Phase I, I spent a whole lot of time in the same airspace, going round-and-round, back-and-forth, watching my EMS like a hawk AND craning my neck for traffic.

After several hours, I was less nervous about the engine suddenly stopping on me and relaxed a bit. I spent even more time with my head outside the cockpit.

In all that time, I think I saw 2 other planes. Two. Both times, a little voice inside my head said, "Tally ho! Bogie at 10 o'clock low, two miles ..." -- but I ignored it. :D

After 40 hours of concentrated flying and only spying two other planes, I realized that there's just not a whole lot of flying going on around here.

On the other hand, when I finished Phase I and decided to fly up to Oshkosh for lunch, I counted no less than FIVE planes in the airspace SW of Chicago, one of which was at my altitude and heading the opposite direction. I don't think he ever saw me.
 
tally ho

Both times, a little voice inside my head said, "Tally ho! Bogie at 10 o'clock low, two miles ..." -- but I ignored it.

There are times I wish I had a "paint ball" shooter and could just pepper the unwary transgressor.

I have been in the middle of "nowhere" ie southeastern colorado and had airplanes fly right through my bubble and I know they didn't see me. Probably the only two airplanes in a 50mile radius at least.

In my home area the routes btween local airports, north and south along the interstate, the local practice area and the route to it, are all high traffic areas that dictate a good traffic scan.
CM
 
Christopher Murphy said:
There are times I wish I had a "paint ball" shooter and could just pepper the unwary transgressor. <snip> CM
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Now that opens up a whole new realm of sporting possibilities, duzn't it Chris! A little row of airplane stencils with paintball splotches on them on your canopy rail! :D

Kidding aside, great discussion. Good reminder to keep your head on a swivel whether you are the one doing the tweaking of tech gadgets...or the one being targeted by others doing so :eek:.

It's kinda the aviation version of texting while driving...there may be less bogeys or obstacles to hit...but they are coming at you a whole lot faster!

And it applies to airplanes big and small. Had a buddy with another airline tell me a story about a (then) new FO that was cleared for a visual to a different runway than what was plugged into the box. The pilot-flying proceded to go heads-down to re-program the box...till my buddy said, heck, you're on downwind, just fly the airplane.

I'm not bashing airliners or anyone, as we an all can fall prey to the lure of the gadget!

As I got up to speed in my RV (familiarity, scan, etc.) I found I had to keep forcing my eyeballs outside when doing more complex tasks (re-programming the GPS is one, and I've found leaning the mixture after level-off another big one). Breaking those tasks up, and doing a button or two, or a turn of the red-knob or two, then looking around, all clear...then another button...etc, helps. Really basic idea, and I sure didn't invent it, but if you are the only set of eyeballs...gotta get 'em out there! Task prioritization, just like Paul said!

Good thread Chris!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Christopher Murphy said:
I love looking at all the fancy doo dads everyone is putting into their RVs nowadays. EFIS displays with a 1000 features to look at. Stereo MP3,CD/DVD players. Digital autopilots that hook up to anything. Tracking devices, Sat. recievers with wx displays. Wow!
Chris M.
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Chris - as one of the local instructors who does IFR and transition training for flat-panel displays likes to say, "If you're going to watch the TV, please just make sure to look up during the commercials".
 
Ya mean, I plunk down $40K for my panel and I can't look at it?

Seriously, the amount of data given by the PFDs and MFDs can amount to information overload. When I was getting G-1000 certified, the instructors kept repeating to look out the window and fly the **** airplane. This especially true if you don't regularly use the equipment to maintain proficiency. Of late, there have been many articles in the FAA Aviation News magazine on the subject of Technically Advanced Aircraft or TAAs.
 
looking out

Heres one... flying 757 into LGA. 10,000 feet, sw of LGA ,slowed to 180kts flaps out. Getting vectored around probably outside of the 30 mile ring and/or the Class B. Off the right wing is a light twin about our altitude flying parallel same direction as us. We watch him as we are passing and sure enough he makes a left turn right at us. TCAS gives a resolution and we climb to 10.5 and the twin goes about 3 or 400 feet under us. No ATC warning about traffic, the controller was obviously overloaded. I would have loved to hear what was said in that twin especiallly if they got a dose of our wake. I don't know how he couldn't have seen us....but pretty sure he didn't.

CM
 
Geography

N8RV said:
Geography plays a part also. Some segments of airspace are far more congested than others. When I was in Phase I, I spent a whole lot of time in the same airspace,
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I recently spent a couple of months in the SF Bay area flying out of San Carlos. The traffic there was significantly more than I normally have to deal with, with much of the VFR squeezed between Class B above, mountains to the sides, and noise-sensitive citizenry below. The great RV visibility was a big help however, and I rarely looked inside the cockpit for more than an occasional glance.

Where I find the cockpit distractions to be more significant is out in the wild blue nowhere, where you don't expect to see much traffic. I don't have a glass panel, but just fiddling with the 396 can be surprisingly distracting. Lets see, wonder what the weather is in New Hampshire right now... Oops, forgot to look outside! Having the autopilot engaged only makes things worse because you don't have to pay as much attention to flying.
 
The autopilot to me, is a great help...

...to keep me looking outside and not worrying about altitude or heading holds.

Engine leaning can be done one turn at a time, with looks outside while temps stabilize,

Best,
 
Maybe I need a better scan pattern, but I've lost track of a couple of airplanes for a bit in the traffic pattern while looking for other traffic. They were turning final while we were about midfield on the downwind so it seemed prudent to look for anyone else since we wouldn't be in conflict. I was surprised that it took several seconds to re-find that airplane that I thought I knew where to look.

Maybe yellow would be easier to spot versus white, but I think they're still hard to spot.
 
I got my private license out of Torrance airport (TOA) not far from LAX. Most of my flying was in that local area with plenty of traffic as you might expect. I seem to remember being ~#12+ in line for landing at Long Beach on a number of occations. I have been put on extended downwind for so long that when I turned back I couldn't see the airport anymore (even being in slow-flight).

Later I went to college at an aviation university in the high plains in Arizona. Although a beautiful place to fly, in may ways I felt it wasn't the best area to train future commercial pilots. With most of my flying experience in heavy traffic areas I was used to having to maintain constant vigilance for other aircraft. Learning the 'radios' with SoCal Approach was also a blessing, I was never radio nervous after that.

Out in Arizona, I would go on many C/C flights and see one or two other aircraft in a three-hour period. I have made it from Prescott, AZ to the hand-off at Palm Springs, CA without so much as a peep for me on flight following.

I think learning or spending time in heavily trafficked areas has a definite advantage in helping to prevent 'heads down' activities.
 
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