Rick_A

Well Known Member
Approach overlay on 296, 396, 496

I received an interesting email today from True Flight, the maker of the Flight Cheetah.

They have a product that will give geo-referenced approach overlay on the 296, 396, 496. It looks pretty interesting. The email contained a promo code of "009" for $50 off the regular price of $199 good until the 15th.

When you load the approach on the x96 you have to select which approached to load, which is the biggest negative that I see (besides the fact that it doesn't support my 696).

Here's the link with more info: http://www.aviationsafety.com/garminoverlay.html

I hope this post doesn't violate any posting rules since True Flight is not an advertiser on VAF (but they would be if they were smart).
 
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Hmmm

This is the kind of thing that really interests me, for the gadget value, if nothing else. So I go to the website and am completely turned off.

NONE, of the 50 or so questions that I have are answered. They don't tell me how it integrates with the Garmin menu system, or how many approaches can be loaded, or how it looks on a Garmin or anything else, but they are prepared to take my money.

If someone gets this, I would really like to hear their take on it. Until then, forget it!
 
If you watch the video, you can see what they're doing. Their software basically allows you to load approach waypoints from their database into the Garmin. They never actually show a screen shot of the Garmin, and he doesn't go into any detail on the menus, but I would imagine each approach you load would appear as a route that could be activated.

Paige
 
I agree, the video suggest that they are just loading a bunch of waypoints and routes made up of those waypoints.

Problem is they never show you an actual approach????? What kind of marketing is that?
 
I don't get it

My '496 already has approaches built in (waypoints) and selectable approaches for each airport. What it does not have is any graphical representation of the approach, minimums, missed approach specifications, etc.
 
The built in approaches only go from the FAF to the MAP.... This seems to add all the others.

In the video seems to suggest that that they send the minimums and stuff as well but I have no idea how this would work...
 
From True Flight

Here is an email exchange between me and TF: Their reply, followed by my questions to them. Also, it appears to me that the approach is geo-referenced, and shows "track up" at all times during the approach.

[FONT=&quot]Hi Pete,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Currently you select one approach at a time, but it should be easy enough for our programmer to make a change so you can select several at a time. We will look into that.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Your Garmin will hold 50 routes. Each approach would be one route, and each missed approach would be one route. How many approaches you can store would be a limitation of the Garmin unit and not our software as we make all 13,000 approaches available to you. You can add and delete approaches, just like you can add and delete routes on your Garmin now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If you have any additional questions, please let me know.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Happy Flying![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Carol Roehner[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]True Flight Inc.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]866-44.3-3342[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]www.aviationsafety.com[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]From:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Pete Hunt
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Approaches for Garmin GPS[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]I have a couple of questions about the track-up approaches for the Garmin 2/3/496 GPS:

Your video showed selecting one approach at a time for download to the Garmin. Is there a way to download a large number of approaches at once?

Will a Garmin 396 need additional memory in order to hold a large number of approaches?

Thanks,

Pete Hunt
San Diego[/FONT]
 
I'm still totally confused by this after watching their video. It doesn't appear to me that they show "Geo-referenced approach plates" at all - they show the route to fly for the approach. Not sure how they give you vertical information. I don't see that they are giving you any graphics that the Garmin doesn't have built in.

To me, a "Geo-referenced approach plate" is an actual approach plate with the airplane's actual position shown in real time.

Paul
 
I am with Paul. This is nothing more than a fancy way to enter user waypoints and then create a route out of them.

This would look on screen just like any other route that you might manually enter.

I bet there is no vertical minimums/info being actually displayed on the Garmin.
 
AFS

After seeing Rob's post today showing real geo-referenced approach plates, it clear that this offering from TF is not even in the same league.

That AFS system is awesome.
 
I think the titlte of this thread "Approach plates on......" as opposed to what is being offered is causing a bit of confusion.


I believe those who have figured out it is an inputting of approach waypoints into the flightplan section have it figured correctly.

My suspicion is that some Truemap subscribers wanted an easy way to input current approach waypoints into their Garmin x96 without having to pay the heavy duty Garmin update price. Many current truemap users get a full set of US approach plates every 28 days from truemap that display as approach plate (many georeferenced) on their Flight Cheetah FL 190, 210, 150.

Since they are already paying Truemap for the updates it is nice to input the current approach waypoints, for those few approaches you fly regularly, on your Garmin that was last updated 3-4 years ago.

Having them in your Garmin then allows you to follow the approach on the Garmin while the flight cheetah has the approach plate up. A simple click on the Cheetah puts you back into moving map where the display does show segment altitudes.

The main Truemap website does not show this as a product and I think it was just developed as an added service at the request of some subscribers.

I do not think it's intent is to put approach plates on Garmin x96s.
 
I talked to Carol at Trueflight yesterday and here is what I got.

Below is a photo from their website of an "approach overlay" on a flight cheetah.

It is the approach waypoints, including the missed approach programmed into the flightplan. Also note in the lower left (white arrow) the min altitude for that approach segment is indicated.

1mapproach_Small_002.jpg


This is what you are transferring to the X96 an approach overlay that on your Garmin screen will show the approach waypoints and noted along the segments will be the min altitude for that segment. Because of the way Garmin handles flight plans the approach and the missed approach will use up 2 of your alloted flight plan storage units.

Below is a screen shot of this on a X96 the segment altitude is indicated along the route segment (near a fix) as an altitude (less two zeroes).
ie: 6800' is noted as 68.

600gen.jpg


garmin%20chart.png


I imagine the added vertical info will be helpful to those who use their X96 during an approach.
 
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A few days ago we began to test market a new product on an extremely limited basis. This was roughly one week before the planned official announcement to the public. Because of this, by its very nature the information was incomplete, which is why we listed a phone number and e-mail address to cover any questions.

Since we initially posted the page it has been updated several times and will continue to be updated. The main thing that is not on the webpage now is its use in actual flight. Unfortunately the weather has not been very good recently to get this footage shot. I do expect though that this footage will be completed and on the webpage later this week. We do currently have a screen shot, but it is in the Garmin simulation mode which does not really show the approach properly.

I would like to clarify a few things I read below:

1. You load our software on your laptop computer.
2. The software automatically logs online and stores all approaches as well as approach charts.
3. Next, you turn on and plug-in your data cable on your Garmin and select the approaches that you want sent to your Garmin.
4. Next hit the print button and you will have hard copies of all the approaches you selected.
5. While in flight, go into your routes and you will see there are routes with the name of the approach (STK23 GPS) and select the approach.
6. When you are flying the approach in map mode you will see every segment of your approach with the name and distance of the waypoint you are flying to, as well as your altitude. The only altitude we do not include is your minimum as it varies from one category of aircraft to the other.
7. We do not use geo-referenced plates, these approach plates are for printing only. There are two reasons we do not. The first is that the Garmin would be physically incapable of handling it file size wise. The second reason is actually much more important. Placing the approach on the main screen in track up is much more intuitive and easier to fly than having to fly North up during an approach. This is why any IFR certified GPS will show it to you on the screen the same way we display it. You can still put the approach in North up mode on your Garmin, however you will see it is more awkward.


In reference to the True Flight offering not being in the same league as the AFS system, it?s important to remember that this offering for the Garmin display is not the same as the Flight Cheetah display which does a lot more. We obviously did not have the luxury of designing the Garmin handhelds. If we had designed it, we would have made it much more upgradable with additional storage space to allow for inexpensive upgrades. Because the focus on the Garmin handhelds has always been to not have them upgradable so you need to buy a new one every couple years we have to deal with the limitations of the Garmin handheld design. Having said that we are still able to make a pretty significant improvement on its capabilities from an off-the-shelf Garmin. I?m not faulting Garmin by introducing products that cannot be upgraded. They have obviously made a lot of money off of this business model. I do strongly feel that you should be able to upgrade the capabilities of a display without having to buy new display every time, and if we can add an important approach capability on your 3-4 year-old Garmin all the better.

Till now Jeppesen has had a monopoly when it comes to database updates if you have a Garmin. This is the first product to compete directly with Jeppesen. Notice Jeppesen doesn?t even allow approach data on any handheld GPS. For that you need to buy a certified display and pay top dollar to keep your approach data current. If your certified GPS fails and you have an emergency, with this new product you can still easily fly the full IFR approach of the Garmin.

Happy Flying,
Rob Kalberer
True Flight
 
Till now Jeppesen has had a monopoly when it comes to database updates if you have a Garmin. This is the first product to compete directly with Jeppesen. Notice Jeppesen doesn?t even allow approach data on any handheld GPS. For that you need to buy a certified display and pay top dollar to keep your approach data current. If your certified GPS fails and you have an emergency, with this new product you can still easily fly the full IFR approach of the Garmin.

Happy Flying,
Rob Kalberer
True Flight

Hi Rob,

Are you saying that True Flight intends to offer full Garmin database subscriptions to compete directly with Jeppesen (in addition to the approach info)?

This would be fantastic news for Garmin owners!
 
Hi Rob,

Are you saying that True Flight intends to offer full Garmin database subscriptions to compete directly with Jeppesen (in addition to the approach info)?

This would be fantastic news for Garmin owners!



We kind of want to take this one step at a time, but it is fair to say there will be more new things coming down the pike for Garmin owners that you can upgrade to.
Happy flying,
Rob Kalberer
True Flight Inc.