Don't waste your Money!

Have it. Wish I did not have it. for simple installs(nav com/transponder/audio panel) it is OK. If you are using EFIS or AP or several different items, its a nightmare! Their support leaves alot to be desired also.

FWIW
 
Fast Stack

I'm very happy with the Faststack system. Ease of installation was as advertised. I did have two miswires, but one call to the tech who did the fab found the glitch. So I would rate the customer support highly. The wiring documentation which comes with each harness shows everything in a format even I can understand. One big advantage of the system is it's ease of upgrade. Just order the harness for your new wizbang and plug it in. I would recommend the product. In reguards to Hard Knox's experience, my system is in the basic catagory... so FWIW..no matter where you go...there you are!
 
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Hmmmm...

Looked at it at OSH. VERY slick, but expensive.

Essentially, they are making modular the task of connecting avioinics by pre-fabbing the connections between known avionics systems on a printed circuit board and providing the cables to connect to the 'box'.

I think its a great way to go as long as you can get the connections you want and can afford it. The price of the cabling indicates the amazingly high cost of the tooling neecessary to fab the cables and the relatively low quantities involved. Not a rip-off. There is a BIG difference in the quality of crimps between the garden-variety crimpers and those expressly designed for the pins/sockets that are used.

And a BIG price difference, too. In general, if you are serious about your crimps and your crimp tool price does not have at least 2 zeros after it, its probably not too good. I have several dedicated crimp/IDC tools in the shop that cost thousands :D .. Unfortunatly, none of them are applicable to airplanes. :mad: There really are guys who spend their entire careers figuring out how metal crimps against precision tooling to make a gas-tight connection.. rather than just crushing onto wires and that makes tooling costs high..

So, invest in tooling or go turn-key??

Personally, I HATE wires, connections and everything associated with them. In 30+years of electronics engineering, its the damned wires and connections that cause the most problems. (And DON'T get me started about grounding..) But I digress..

If you want to roll your own harnesses, there is nothing hard about it. Learn to solder and buy the crimp-tools that the connector manufacturer specifies. Accept no substitutes. Avoid RadioShack.

Check the YellowPages for 'ELECTRONIC CABLE MANUFACTURERS'. Ask them if they are tooled for your particular connector or a substitute. Draw what you want and get a quote. If they are plugged in, they can save you some money. If not, buy what you can from Approach.

In short, regardless of how you proceed, you MUST keep in mind that wiring and cabling can be a beating or a blessing. Many, many, MANY problems (I key the mic and get another 10" of MP!!) problems can be traced to bad basic connections. I cannot count the times that an otherwise well-engineered circuit/system FAILED due to lousy connections. I lothe them......

Hope this helps,
John
 
Clarification for the record

I had to return my hub two times due to design/manufacturing errors on the board. Once it was swapped, once it was "repaired". I had to return or swap cables several times due to manufacturing errors. I was told the problem was that I did not buy all of my cables at the same time. I purchased them over a period of 4 months, as I needed them. Currently everything works, but we had to run several wires from plug to plug to correct other "limitations". My panel consist of the following: SL-30, SL-60, SL-70, PAV 80, PMA7000B, MX-20, DUAL GRT EFIS and TT Digiflight II GSVS(EIEIO).

Like I said before, I you have a navcom, transponder and audio panel, it will save you time, but I will not do it again.
 
Well, my check just went out in the mail yesterday. We'll have: Dynon D180, Dynon D100, Pma8000B, Garmin 327, Garmin SL30, Air gizmo dock with Garmin 296 to later upgrade, and a trutrak digiflight II VSG. Hope we have better luck than Robby.
 
Approach Systems Pro G

I have the Pro G hub. It was quite easy to install. The important aspect of the hub is knowing what your avionics is capable of doing. I ran into a couple of issues not knowing exactly what I needed. As an example, I needed a couple of unswitched audio outputs that were not part of the audio panel harness. Also my transponder (Garmin 330S) has the capability to do DA calculations but needs an OAT probe. I did not know this, hence it was not wired for it.

I found the service excellent. I would however say that Approach should do more of a counselling session with the prospective buyer to determine exactly what they need.

As far as savings, I found the overall convenience worth the extra cost, which was only a few hundred over what the cost of the harnesses would be anyway.
 
Approach Faststack

I am in the process of installing an Approach Faststack Hub and cables to interconnect three GRTs, an 8000, an SL30, a GNS530, and an 327. The install is going smoothly, but then I had the benifit of watching several neighbors on the airpark go through this process. One thing I have learned is that when Approach knows your configeration, they do a block diagram and will share it with you. This block diagram provides you the opportunity to ensure the "optional" things are specified for your order. Like cable lengths, like cabling out unswitched audio outputs, like unique jumpers in hub for your configuration, like GRT serial port assignments are what you expect, and the list goes on. If you talked with them at Oshkosh or Sun & Fun, you probably talked to Tim Hass, General Manager Approach Fast Stack, tel(218)237-7825, e-mail [email protected]. As I was ready to place my order, Tim had the production engineer call me to discuss my block diagram and ensure I got what I wanted.

Tom Lewis
RV7a
 
donahuedc said:
Well, my check just went out in the mail yesterday. We'll have: Dynon D180, Dynon D100, Pma8000B, Garmin 327, Garmin SL30, Air gizmo dock with Garmin 296 to later upgrade, and a trutrak digiflight II VSG. Hope we have better luck than Robby.
Click to expand...

I don't in any way mean this as a flame to anyone, but the above is a perfect example of what you should and could easily do yourself. Here's essentially what you're paying for:

Dynon D180 & D100....prefab cables are available directly from Dynon...and not too expensive. You hook up one power, one ground each, run the ONE wire to the Txpdr and route the wire to your remote mag...plug in the engine sensor harness which you have to do anyway and you're done there.

Garmin 327 - Power Wire, Ground Wire and a whopping total of ONE wire to your Dynon (which comes with the pre-made dynon harness).

Garmin 296/396 - Cable available from Sporty's for a few bucks...includes the ONE wire you need to hook to your pre-fab TruTrak harness which already has that wire on it anyway.

Now, the only thing with much wiring at all is the PMA & SL-30. If you bought these avionics new this should already be done for you, but if not here's the scoop.

Total of FOUR wires from the SL-30 to the PMA (plus the Power & Ground on the radio) and the SL-30 counts for about 7-8 wires. (even if you hook up the nav via RS-232, that's only TWO more wires - just use a twisted pair or something...).

From the PMA you'll have 4 leads (2 headset & 2 mic leads). 2 PTT leads and then any inputs that you'd have to hook up anyway (like aux music, etc..).

That's it! In totality you should have about $370 in the prefab harnesses, another $50 in your own wire & jacks and a few hours of work and you'd be done.

Not slamming the approach stuff at all...normally I find their work top notch and yes we've occasionally used it when a customer requires it. Plus, they are now another "MinnesOta" company so they can't be all bad :)

Just my 2 cents, but some of this wiring stuff isn't really as bad as people might lead you to believe. Yes you need decent tooling, but it doesn't need to cost thousands of $$'s. Sure, in my shop we have a lot of high end tooling, but before I had the avionics shop I built 2 RV's without spending a ton on tooling. Just be carefull, follow the instructions and you'll be fine.

Lastly, if you buy your avionics right - they should be mostly pre-wired for you anyway.

Cheers,
Stein.

RV6 Flyin
RV7 Waitin on finish kit - and money for engine/avionics!
 
Faststack installed

I have a Approach Faststack hub with cables for three GRT screens, 530,
SL30, 327, TT autopilot, and PS8000. Early last week I had wiring installed
to check out the radio stack. I powered up and the radio stack checked out okay. The faststack hub worked for me.

Then on Wed afternoon, the box from GRT arrived. I installed the AHRS and
cable to DUs and powered up the GRT stuff on Thursday afternoon and it
looks GREAT!!! The faststack hub made this process a painless experience.

After some pointers from a neighbor on how to find the setup screens and how to get the AHRS talking to each box, and getting the inter display communication setup, things started working great. On Friday I hooked the EIS up and got it talking to the rest of the displays. The demos GRT has posted were great for showing off the system to friends. I am excited about how the GRT system looks in my panel.

Tom Lewis
Granbury, Tx
 
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