Rick6a

Rick6a

Well Known Member
As a member of the AOPA for over two decades, I have always opted to include the optional legal services plan with my annual membership dues. In this time of economic downturn, I am reviewing all discretionary spending, including this item. From what I understand, the additional $29 provides 1/2 hour legal consultation in the event I find myself requiring the services of a lawyer presumably familiar with aviation issues.

I am a private pilot based inside a 30 mile Mode C ring and routinely operate under Class B airspace. Accidentally "busting" that airspace is never far from my mind. However in practice I operate out of uncontrolled airports approximately 80% of the time. Given my circumstances, I am curious how other pilots, particularly non-professional pilots percieve as real value this optional AOPA "benefit." Is the additional cost really worth it?
 
It is insurance.....

$29.00 times 20 years = $580.00. At this point you could afford more than 1/2 hour of a real good lawyers time.

Rick just behave yourself and save the money.:p

Kent
 
Rick, I'm not a lawyer, avaition or otherwise, but my impression of the way law is practiced is that lawyers are usually unable to give a yes or no answer to almost any inquiry. There are usually too many uncertainties about any given sitiuation and the lawyer naturally wants to avoid saying anything that might create liability for him later or create problems for you now. Save your money. I've never had a lawyer charge anything for the two or three times I've personally walked into their office and asked a question. If you really need help it's going to be a lot more than a half hour anyway.
 
I believe in it, and yes I had to use it. I guess the question should be, do I need any kind of insurance. You could save a bunch more money and not insure your airplane also.
 
allbee said:
I believe in it, and yes I had to use it. I guess the question should be, do I need any kind of insurance. You could save a bunch more money and not insure your airplane also.
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Insurance, statistically (i.e. on average, in the long run), is more favorable to the insurer than the insured. That's why insurance companies, which are for-profit entities, are in business. So why should anyone buy any insurance at all? Good question. Here's the answer. Buying insurance is only sensible as a means of hedging against an event which is improbable, but is financially devastating if it does occur. For many of us, the loss of a ~$100K airplane for example would be a financially devastating event, and so sensibly we might consider buying insurance against such an event. On the other hand, an event where you'd have to spend say $300 for half an hour of a lawyer's time would indeed be unpleasant, but certainly not financially devastating. Therefore, buying insurance against that sort of event doesn't make so much sense. Statistically, you'd be better off taking that $29 a year and putting it in a jar, and you can label that jar "aviation legal services fund".
 
Just slightly off topic, but

Rick6a said:
I am a private pilot based inside a 30 mile Mode C ring and routinely operate under Class B airspace. Accidentally "busting" that airspace is never far from my mind. However in practice I operate out of uncontrolled airports approximately 80% of the time.
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Under your circumstances, I would keep a NASA safety form handy. If you accidentally bust the Class B airspace and cause no problems a properly filed NASA safety form will protect you from being cited.
 
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Read the AOPA policy on line at....

Rick
I think you'll feel better about the $29 investment after you read the policy which is at: http://www.aopa.org/info/certified/lsp_certificate.pdf

BTW, the 1/2 hour is for "stuff" not covered in the policy which appears to cover everything but forgetting to pay you bar bill.

The $29 is worth it if they only do half of what they've listed.
 
Not Quite....

Mel said:
Under your circumstances, I would keep a NASA safety form handy. If you accidentally bust the Class B airspace and cause no problems a properly filed NASA safety form will protect you from being cited.
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The ASRS Form (aka "NASA Report" if filed in a timely manner (10 days from the committment of the malfeasance) will prevent any sanctions against your Airman Certificate and/or civil penaties. You may still end up with a letter, or an outright violation in your file.
Furthermore, the FAA must determine that the violation was not intentional, and that there is no history of violations within the previous 5 years.

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/overview/immunity.html#5

See Paragraph 9
 
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Aviation Attorney

Hello Rick,

I don't know if it will help you in the decision making process, but back in the 80s I found myself in need of an aviation attorney. This was in the days before the "kinder, gentler" FAA we now all know and love :rolleyes:. I got the dreaded certified letter informing me that I had violated a section of the FARs, and to call a certain number to give my side of the story :eek:. Fortunately, a couple months before, I had read an article in Plane & Pilot about aviation attorneys. So I gave one of the guys in the article a call. He was based in San Francisco. The first words out of his mouth were, "I'm expensive , but I'm worth it. I'll either get you off, or guarantee that if they suspend you, it will be in the off-season. I require a $1000 retainer. In the mean time, don't contact them. If they contact you, refer them to me." That was a lot of money in those days. But I needed to keep my certificate, so I sent him a check, and all the paper work involving my violation. He called the FAA, sent a couple of letters to them requesting all info they had etc. Long story longer, the FAA sent me a letter that basically said "Keep your nose clean". No violation and no certificate action. To this day I firmly believe that I would have been toast if I'd tried to go it alone. I really think that they didn't want to take the time and manpower to fight someone who knew what he was doing.
 
Low & Slow said:
Hello Rick,

I don't know if it will help you in the decision making process, but back in the 80s I found myself in need of an aviation attorney. This was in the days before the "kinder, gentler" FAA we now all know and love :rolleyes:. I got the dreaded certified letter informing me that I had violated a section of the FARs, and to call a certain number to give my side of the story :eek:. Fortunately, a couple months before, I had read an article in Plane & Pilot about aviation attorneys. So I gave one of the guys in the article a call. He was based in San Francisco. The first words out of his mouth were, "I'm expensive , but I'm worth it. I'll either get you off, or guarantee that if they suspend you, it will be in the off-season. I require a $1000 retainer. In the mean time, don't contact them. If they contact you, refer them to me." That was a lot of money in those days. But I needed to keep my certificate, so I sent him a check, and all the paper work involving my violation. He called the FAA, sent a couple of letters to them requesting all info they had etc. Long story longer, the FAA sent me a letter that basically said "Keep your nose clean". No violation and no certificate action. To this day I firmly believe that I would have been toast if I'd tried to go it alone. I really think that they didn't want to take the time and manpower to fight someone who knew what he was doing.
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With that said, I will put in a little more. The FAA can and will go after you if thay deem it... Believe me when I say this, you are guilty until proven innocent. Take that anyway you want. The aviation lawyer is well worth it when the FAA decides you are IT. There are so many rules that are gray, they decide what is. Good luck on your decision. It's only a small amount for the year. IF anything you will have peace of mind.
 
OH, one last thing. If you had any kind of infraction, you can't use the NASA form for 5 years.
 
sounds like a good deal to me

My buddy ran into an issue that included an uncharted strip, BLM land, and Natl Rec area (overseen by the Natl park service).
Having immediate access to the AOPA aviation lawyers gave him the information he needed to decide on the proper course of action.
On day one he was working through the problem, not looking for a lawyer that had experience working with the FAA and NPS.
Immediately following any incident you will be receiving important phone calls requesting immediate answers. Having a lawyer worked out in advance reduces your risk of saying or doing things contrary to your best interest.

Of course if you already have a lawyer lined up, forget about the AOPA service.
 
I got ride of it

I had been thinking of getting rid of the legal fee, it was 15 when I signed up and now it's 29. If I need the lawyer I can get there names from AOPA anyways. I used them once and could only talk to the paralegal, A half hour ain't gona cut it anyways, Drop it and buy some gas. I carry a NASA form in my bag. Gene
 
A lot more than a half hour

The half hour thing keeps coming up. As stated earlier, read this and see the real benefits:

http://www.aopa.org/info/certified/lsp_certificate.pdf

This plan could not only save your ticket, it could save you thousands of dollars. And yes, I am a 44 year member of the AOPA and have been a member of the legal services program since its inception.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
More than just infractions

I don't know why you guys are thinking the AOPA Legal plan is just for infractions.

I used it a few years ago for an hour's worth of an aviation lawyer's time for advice in transferring ownership of an airplane in a sticky estate settlement.

Well worth the money.
 
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