NASA515

Well Known Member
In short - have many RV-12 owners activated their AOA feature? And, if so, have you kept the Vane operated Stall Warning?

Flying magazine has a piece about the FAA's most important features for reducing GA accidents.

http://www.flyingmag.com/news/faa-names-surprising-top-lifesaving-technologies?cmpid=enews051713&spPodID=030&spMailingID=17538332&spUserID=NTEzMTMzMzQwNDES1&spJobID=215962172&spReportId=MjE1OTYyMTcyS0

Leading the list is Angle of Attack

I posted the following (somewhat modified) on the General Forum, without any comments (except that a Poll favored AOA only vs Both by 60/40), so I thought I would pulse the RV-12 group, who may not cruise the General Forum.

Per the ASTM Cert Standards, the RV-12 comes with a stall warning vane and system. The warning horn sounds through the headset, and is LOUD (and annoying.) There is also a Red Lite on the Skyview display. The horn comes on about 7 kts above the stall.

I trained on the RV-12 with Mike Seager down in Oregon. We made 8 flights. He put masking tape over the stall warning vane and it never sounded. I don't know if he did that to increase my sensory perception of the stall warning characteristics, or because he felt listening to that raucous horn was a PITA. If the airplane (the Vans Demonstrator) had an AOA installed - I don't know. If so, it was not enabled.

I'm a believer in AOA, so when I built my airplane, I incorporated all the plumbing for the AOA system. After I got my FAA certification, I simply activated the system on my 2nd flight. I calibrated it a few times per the instructions on flights 2 and 3. As noted by others, in addition to the indicator chevron, it beeps at you (gently.)

I had no previous experience flying a light airplane AOA. I immediately fell in love. Now the problem became the TWO systems working in parallel. The Dynon AOA with its gentle beeping vs the raucous vane activated buzzer. The buzzer sometimes wants to come on first, and the sound wants to overwhelm and cover up the AOA tones. (Like the old joke of the pilot who lands with the gear up and tells the Tower he didn't hear their warnings because of the loud buzzer.) It's also quite jarring if it comes on suddenly and unexpectedly during the final approach and landing phases.

Right now, I'm seriously considering deactivating the vane buzzer and just going with the AOA. It seems more precise, guiding, gentle.

Actually, I think Vans should include the AOA in the Plans, so it doesn't have to be installed as a post-Cert mod. After all, the Skyview and its ADAHRS are all set-up for the AOA system.

As to the comments about having them both for redundancy, in addition to deactivating the stall warning vane, Mike also completely shutdown the Skyview (he said I was looking at it too much), and made me fly a series of take-offs, circuits, and landings with nothing but my eyeballs and throttle for maintaining airplane attitude and speed control. He later said they were some of my best flights. I don't know about that, but I felt remarkably comfortable flying the airplane with absolutely no instruments. I recommend it as a valuable exercise for all pilots.

Bob Bogash
RV-12
N737G
 
Most interesting report Bob, thanks.
I added an AOA on my 12, although I had never flown a plane with one, but am sure looking forward to learning all about how it works for me. Like you said, with everything already there except the part that hangs out in the wind, why not?
 
"I'm a believer in AOA,"

And Mike wanted you to experience AOA and how it feels when the wing exceeds it. That's why he kept shutting down all pre-aoa signals. AOA is no problem when you are looking for it. It can be a problem when you are distracted. Then the signal is good.

If my plane had a AOA buzzer and the Dynon, I would replace the buzzer (stock 12) with a red light on the TOP of the panel sun shade right in front of the pilots view.
 
I have both. I guess I lucked out because my initial positioning of my stall switch was right on. So I get the AOA audible, faster and faster, then finally the stall warning - just right. If I was going to turn one off it would be the stall warning. You can ride that beeping all the way down to a slow, precision spot landing - it's wonderful! And all for about $12 in parts. Below is the thread to read. You can do the entire thing x/c actually drilling the wing hole for the inflation needle (or rivet) because until you do that it is just a piece of no-weight tubing lying in the plane... http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=34040&highlight=AOA&page=2
 
I do not know about the SkyView, but with the D-180, the stall warning alarm is independent of the EFIS. If the EFIS fails, there will still be a stall warning from the vane switch. I like having both a stall vane switch and AOA. Having two angle of attack warning systems provides redundancy in case one system fails. The stall vane could stick or a bug can plug the AOA port. Technically speaking, the vane switch is an AOA warning device. But it is either on or off. The AOA gives a progressive indication that allows the pilot to adjust the pitch attitude with a safe margin above stall.
Each of us thinks that the base to final stall will not happen to them. However it does happen to many pilots. I like being warned so that it does not happen to me.
Joe Gores
 
My aircraft also has an AOA warning system installed for negligible cost. Best value for money mod I've ever seen. Thanks Joe (Mich48041).
 
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I do not know about the SkyView, but with the D-180, the stall warning alarm is independent of the EFIS. If the EFIS fails, there will still be a stall warning from the vane switch. I like having both a stall vane switch and AOA. Having two angle of attack warning systems provides redundancy in case one system fails. The stall vane could stick or a bug can plug the AOA port. Technically speaking, the vane switch is an AOA warning device. But it is either on or off. The AOA gives a progressive indication that allows the pilot to adjust the pitch attitude with a safe margin above stall.
Each of us thinks that the base to final stall will not happen to them. However it does happen to many pilots. I like being warned so that it does not happen to me.
Joe Gores

Hey Joe, a year or two ago we discussed the idea of using the same rivet Van,s supplies for the static ports as a AOA probe. I just wanted to let you know it works great! Thanks for pioneering this feature ole' buddy.
 
Yes, Joe - I was remiss in not saying I used your rivet idea as well - it's really brilliant, unobtrusive, and works very well.

Bob Bogash
N737G
 
So, for you guys that have used the flush (static air- type rivet) as opposed to the threaded needle valve: it mounts in the exact location as Joe originally describes in his installation post?

I love either method. I just have both an extra rivet and the needle valve. Trying to decide which way to go. On one hand, I like the needle valve: I can thread a cap/remove before flight banner on it to keep out insects in the hangar. On the other hand, I like the flush rivet! Decisions, decisions!

Thanks-
 
Aaron,

I didn't mean to be snarky. It just seems technology is causing many pilots ( me included) to let their basic skills atrophy. I know I have become dependent on GPS.

Rich
 
So, for you guys that have used the flush (static air- type rivet) as opposed to the threaded needle valve: it mounts in the exact location as Joe originally describes in his installation post?

I love either method. I just have both an extra rivet and the needle valve. Trying to decide which way to go. On one hand, I like the needle valve: I can thread a cap/remove before flight banner on it to keep out insects in the hangar. On the other hand, I like the flush rivet! Decisions, decisions!

Thanks-

Me too. I went with the needle valve in the end for the reason you noted. On the other hand the static ports aren't capped and a piece of masking tape would do just as well. Hmm. Maybe I should have gone for the clean look of the flush rivet. On the other hand, the banner is sure to get a few puzzled comments, especially if it says something like `hydrogen port' (good idea, Bill :D).