walkman

walkman

Well Known Member
Last weekend I proved to myself the viability of my homemade super lightweight headset made from an old headset mic, a coat hangar, and a set of earbuds off my MP3 player. Try as I might I could not get them to fly off my head like regular headsts :D

However, they aren't so good when it comes to noise reduction or comfort. I'm considering getting some custom moulded ear plugs and am looking for recommendations or experiences.

Thanks
 
Just got my QT Halos recently, love'em.. read this for qt halo FAQ

Wouldn't a custom-fit earmold be better at blocking noise than foam earplugs?

Earplugs are more effective than earcups at blocking low and mid frequency noise. The earplug has less mass and surface area upon which noise can interact. Therefore, nothing has to be done with noise if it doesn't enter the ear canal in the first place! Nothing. It is the "occlusion effect" and is the same phenomenon that occurs when you close your ear canals tightly with your fingers and talk aloud. Some of that sound energy produced by bone vibration within ithe skull is "trapped" in the ear canal and reflected back to your ear drum where it is heard as a loud, muffled sound. You will get used to it, and it probably won't be noticed in flight. Not necesarily. Contrary to many experts' opinions, the earmold is NOT a perfect replica of the ear canal. An imperfect fit can cause miniature acoustic leaks; a pathway for the sound to enter the ear canal. The earmold is relatively solid as compared to the dynamic motion of the ear canal when chewing, or moving about. If there is one very small, razor-thin leak between the earmold and the ear canal, almost ALL low frequencies will enter the ear canal and will sound as loud as wearing no earplugs at all. Foam on the other hand continually accomodates the ear canal shape and therefore blocks sound from entering the canal. If you are luck enough to get a good sealing earplug, you will also have a pneumatic seal that blocks air pressure from equalizing between the ear drum and the surrounding air pressure creating some discomfort climbing or descending from altitudes. Finally, earmolds are sweaty and often produce "sore points" on about 30% of the users. Clearly, foam is the best choice.
 
There was a thread about this a long time ago, 6 or 7 years???

As I recall, the person used custom units from a place that made musician ear pieces and had the manufacture modify them for use in the plane.

Tried a bit of searching, but no joy---------hopefully the person who did the old thread will see this one and jump in.

Not cheap way to go, but seems to be quite effective.
 
miyu1975 said:
Just got my QT Halos recently, love'em.. read this for qt halo FAQ

Wouldn't a custom-fit earmold be better at blocking noise than foam earplugs?

Earplugs are more effective than earcups at blocking low and mid frequency noise. The earplug has less mass and surface area upon which noise can interact. Therefore, nothing has to be done with noise if it doesn't enter the ear canal in the first place! Nothing. It is the "occlusion effect" and is the same phenomenon that occurs when you close your ear canals tightly with your fingers and talk aloud. Some of that sound energy produced by bone vibration within ithe skull is "trapped" in the ear canal and reflected back to your ear drum where it is heard as a loud, muffled sound. You will get used to it, and it probably won't be noticed in flight. Not necesarily. Contrary to many experts' opinions, the earmold is NOT a perfect replica of the ear canal. An imperfect fit can cause miniature acoustic leaks; a pathway for the sound to enter the ear canal. The earmold is relatively solid as compared to the dynamic motion of the ear canal when chewing, or moving about. If there is one very small, razor-thin leak between the earmold and the ear canal, almost ALL low frequencies will enter the ear canal and will sound as loud as wearing no earplugs at all. Foam on the other hand continually accomodates the ear canal shape and therefore blocks sound from entering the canal. If you are luck enough to get a good sealing earplug, you will also have a pneumatic seal that blocks air pressure from equalizing between the ear drum and the surrounding air pressure creating some discomfort climbing or descending from altitudes. Finally, earmolds are sweaty and often produce "sore points" on about 30% of the users. Clearly, foam is the best choice.
Click to expand...

Which is why I'm looking for first hand experiences, particularly on the ones that require a mould made by an audiologist not DIY moulds. There are plenty of testimonials on the websites of those selling the products. Not an unbiased source of information.
 
Beltone

I use them for work and prefer them to foamies...mostly. In a super sweaty environment (helicopter in the summer with no A/C) I can get just enough sweat in my ears to make the custom fit earplugs a little uncomfortable. Other than that, I prefer them.

This is the company the Military uses

http://www.beltone.com/products/beltone-custom-earmolds.aspx

There is an art to getting it right, and some of the physiologists who are trained to make the ear molds do not know it. Stick your pinky in your ear and open/close your jaw. You can feel how your inner ear changes shape for different positions of your jaw. The key is to try to approximate the position it will be in the most often. For me it was not tight jaw mouth closed (like you probably will be tempted to do). For me it is a relaxed jaw with my mouth slightly open (I breathe through nose and mouth) and a slight smile (you don't smile when you fly?)
You hold this pose, they place a foam plug with a lanyard DEEP into your ear, then fill your ear with a thick goo. You wait until it is solid (a few minutes), then they remove it with the lanyard.

This package is then sent to Beltone who makes the positive from your ear into a negative mold. Now they can just keep it in stock and make them whenever you want.

I have been told the DR visit may cost $100 or so to get your ears molded, and Beltone charges whatever they charge for their services.
 
I use them

Walkman,
I use custom molded ear plugs with my Clarity Aloft headset in my RV. (RV-6A with O-360, C/S) Like AX-O, I use CEPs at work and had the molds made by military audiologist to incorporate with the CEPs under my helmet. However, they continuously came out under higher G-forces so I went back to the foam earplugs at work.

Clarity Aloft headsets use the same ear end adapters and foam tips as the CEPs so that is why I went with them over the Halo's. (My wife flies with the Halo's and loves them) I now use my custom molded ear plugs in the RV. Here is my take on custom molded ear plugs:

Pro:
1) They are really comfortable
2) They are easy to put in (much faster than foamies)
3) They can be cleaned and reused.

Cons:
1) Are expensive
2) Can be a little uncomfortable when eating (but nothing excruciating)
3) They are not as quiet as the foamies.

I have used them in 3 different RVs and have had no issues with them at all. I have been told that my RV is particularly quieter than most, probably the interior and floor insulation dampens the noise and vibration. For me, the ease/quick install and not having to buy new ones overcomes the decibel or two louder than foamies.

If that didn't answer your question, let me know.

Dan
 
walkman said:
150 for custom moulded plugs vs 400 to basically get what I assembled for < 20 and already have?
Click to expand...

I picked up my QT Halo set for $175, I've had custom plugs before and hated them (they were for blocking noise [drums]) not sure if the type you are talking about are different, there is such thing as fitting too well IMO
 
Custom molded work well

I have a pair of custom ear plugs provided by my work for hearing protection. They are extremely effective, almost to the point of blocking too much sound from entering the ear canal. They were done by an audiologist, who squirted the silicon goo in my ears(very strange experience), and he said he could integrate communication components in the plugs. I use Halos with foam plugs and find them more than adiquate, but the customs would be the ultimate, though less comfortable.
 
I have a set of custom molded plugs for trap shooting and I had the same guy make me another set of custom molded earbuds that plug into an mP3 player. The ambient sound attenuation is great and the sound quality from the ear buds is amazing. I can be sitting on the loudest piece of machinery and listening to music at the lowest volume setting. When the time comes I will have to look pretty hard at what is commercially available. I don't really feel the need to reinvent the wheel but I might modify existing technology with custom ear molds.
 
bkthomps said:
I picked up my QT Halo set for $175, I've had custom plugs before and hated them (they were for blocking noise [drums]) not sure if the type you are talking about are different, there is such thing as fitting too well IMO
Click to expand...

I have been looking at a lot of vendors. Many of them are aimed at gigging musicians, as well as motorsports, and shooters. I've talked to guys on the range who love them over the foamies.
 
bkthomps said:
I picked up my QT Halo set for $175, I've had custom plugs before and hated them (they were for blocking noise [drums]) not sure if the type you are talking about are different, there is such thing as fitting too well IMO
Click to expand...

where'd you get them for $175? used?

I'm happy with the fit and the mic of the DIY set I put together, its just the noise attenuation on the earphones I'm using. ArsTechnica with the comply tips on them.
 
As a reference point, my QT Halo's are quieter than my Lightspeed Zulu's.
 
I had some for a couple of years that I used with my Lightspeed Mach 1 headset.

I loved them, and had them made here:

http://www.earplugstore.com/professional-custom-molded-ear-plugs.html

Over time though what I found is that either my ears changed shape slightly or the plugs themselves changed and even the slightest leak in any area at all would let enough sound in to lower the sound isolation level.

Eventually I tried various other solutions, and now am using a Clarity Aloft headset with comply tips. I do like that but also want to consider using the Halo. I will check it out at Oshkosh again this year. I remember the owner of that company saying that the custom molded ones did not work well and were unnecessary.

YMMV
 
Yea and I love them. In fact sometimes they seal to good. Like say a quick decent with a head cold. I kept pulling my ear to create a gap and relieve the pressure. Not going to make that mistake again.

I got them at OSH 2 years ago. One of those non aviation dudes in one of the hangers. I looked for him last year but did not see him. I wanted another set. You get the goo squirted in your ear there and they send you the molded plugs in the mail. I use them on my Halo. To be honest the foam works just as well. The advantage as I see it with the molded ones is you just wipe them off and do not need to replace them. Or figure out the foam has degraded enough to not give you a good seal in the middle of a flight.

My 2 cents your milage may vary.

By the way if you want just plain ear plugs you pick them up in a few minutes at the booth. They are great for general high noise environments.
 
walkman said:
where'd you get them for $175? used?

I'm happy with the fit and the mic of the DIY set I put together, its just the noise attenuation on the earphones I'm using. ArsTechnica with the comply tips on them.
Click to expand...

yep, a forum member, there are deals to be had if you keep your eyes peeled.
 
Another opinion point... I fly a fairly loud airplane and have recently had an opportunity to spend a little time in a friend's RV9A. Of course I also get a bit of time in another friend's Grumman Cheetah to use as a comparison.

I've always been a David Clark guy. At one point in my career I convinced our helicopter fleet manager to approve a phased replacement of Carter headsets with DC's and then use the maintenance cost savings to buy the next batch of DC's. In total I think we had 600 DC's by the time we were done and they were very well received by flight crews.

Fast forward 30 years. I bought a set of Halo's from Phil at Oshkosh and tried them out with the yellow foamies - wow - very impressive. I found the yellow foamies weren't working so well in the very cold winter months (I have little cabin heat and tend to fly in insulated bib overalls and heavy coat along with a toque to keep the ole' noggin warm!).

A friend had started a small side business making custom-fit earmolds for shooters. He agreed to mold a set for me and insert the black "straws" from yellow foamies so I could try them out on my Halo. Ahhhh much better in cold weather (after you warm them up with your fingers).

My wife can't wear earplugs and gets headaches from the melon-squishing that goes on with traditional headsets like the DC's. Luckily I came across a Bose X headset and we gave it a whirl with positive results.

Now for some comparisons using our aircraft as a baseline.
DC H10-13.4's with recently replaced gell ear seals versus Halo with foamies in the summer... Halo produces significantly better hearing protection (although audibly across a different band of frequencies). In the winter it was almost a toss-up, depending on temperature.

DCH10-13.4's vs Halo with custom-molded earplugs... Initially the DC's are better than the molded earplugs but after a very short time (like by the time engine run-up is completed) a quick wiggle of the molded earplugs causes them to slip more firmly into place, after which the Halo clearly beats out the DC's.

Bose X vs Halo with custom-molded earplugs... So far I've only conducted this test in warm weather (not hot, just warm, cockpit temperature of about 15C). This was literally a side-by-side comparison, switching headsets multiple times during the same flight. Net result is that I find the Halo's have a slight edge in noise attenuation over the Bose X.

Now for some additional observations...
- While the Bose headset is comfortable to wear, it does not even come close to the comfort of the Halo's.
- Passive noise attenuation of the Bose X is almost nil, so you'd better hope they don't fail in flight. I had them turned off during a portion of the RV9A flight and found I could live with the noise level but ATC communications were a real struggle. I wouldn't want to be going very far or in busy airspace without the ANR being fully functional.
- as compared to custom-molded earplugs, foam earplugs on the Halo's provide less variability in noise attenuation as a function of jaw position (if you're chewing you'll experience some additional background noise with the harder molded plugs)
- if you are a person who produces a lot of ear wax, the molded plugs definitely will produce far better durability than the foamies
- ear wax can block the central sound-conducting tube in any earplug so you've got to keep those passages clear.

Final Thoughts - After many years of being a dyed-in-the-wool David Clark fan, I've been won over by the Halo's - their comfort is simply beyond comparison. Since each of us is slightly different, try different earplugs to find the ones which work best for YOU. If you can't wear earplugs, cough up the money for a good ANR headset.
 
Canadian_JOY said:
Another opinion point... I fly a fairly loud airplane and have recently had an opportunity to spend a little time in a friend's RV9A. Of course I also get a bit of time in another friend's Grumman Cheetah to use as a comparison.

I've always been a David Clark guy. At one point in my career I convinced our helicopter fleet manager to approve a phased replacement of Carter headsets with DC's and then use the maintenance cost savings to buy the next batch of DC's. In total I think we had 600 DC's by the time we were done and they were very well received by flight crews.

Fast forward 30 years. I bought a set of Halo's from Phil at Oshkosh and tried them out with the yellow foamies - wow - very impressive. I found the yellow foamies weren't working so well in the very cold winter months (I have little cabin heat and tend to fly in insulated bib overalls and heavy coat along with a toque to keep the ole' noggin warm!).

A friend had started a small side business making custom-fit earmolds for shooters. He agreed to mold a set for me and insert the black "straws" from yellow foamies so I could try them out on my Halo. Ahhhh much better in cold weather (after you warm them up with your fingers).

My wife can't wear earplugs and gets headaches from the melon-squishing that goes on with traditional headsets like the DC's. Luckily I came across a Bose X headset and we gave it a whirl with positive results.

Now for some comparisons using our aircraft as a baseline.
DC H10-13.4's with recently replaced gell ear seals versus Halo with foamies in the summer... Halo produces significantly better hearing protection (although audibly across a different band of frequencies). In the winter it was almost a toss-up, depending on temperature.

DCH10-13.4's vs Halo with custom-molded earplugs... Initially the DC's are better than the molded earplugs but after a very short time (like by the time engine run-up is completed) a quick wiggle of the molded earplugs causes them to slip more firmly into place, after which the Halo clearly beats out the DC's.

Bose X vs Halo with custom-molded earplugs... So far I've only conducted this test in warm weather (not hot, just warm, cockpit temperature of about 15C). This was literally a side-by-side comparison, switching headsets multiple times during the same flight. Net result is that I find the Halo's have a slight edge in noise attenuation over the Bose X.

Now for some additional observations...
- While the Bose headset is comfortable to wear, it does not even come close to the comfort of the Halo's.
- Passive noise attenuation of the Bose X is almost nil, so you'd better hope they don't fail in flight. I had them turned off during a portion of the RV9A flight and found I could live with the noise level but ATC communications were a real struggle. I wouldn't want to be going very far or in busy airspace without the ANR being fully functional.
- as compared to custom-molded earplugs, foam earplugs on the Halo's provide less variability in noise attenuation as a function of jaw position (if you're chewing you'll experience some additional background noise with the harder molded plugs)
- if you are a person who produces a lot of ear wax, the molded plugs definitely will produce far better durability than the foamies
- ear wax can block the central sound-conducting tube in any earplug so you've got to keep those passages clear.

Final Thoughts - After many years of being a dyed-in-the-wool David Clark fan, I've been won over by the Halo's - their comfort is simply beyond comparison. Since each of us is slightly different, try different earplugs to find the ones which work best for YOU. If you can't wear earplugs, cough up the money for a good ANR headset.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the write up. I'm going to have an audiologist fit me with some custom moulded earphones to use with my home grown super-light headset. Will report back when I've some experience with them.
 
JH Audio

Mike S said:
There was a thread about this a long time ago, 6 or 7 years???

As I recall, the person used custom units from a place that made musician ear pieces and had the manufacture modify them for use in the plane.

Tried a bit of searching, but no joy---------hopefully the person who did the old thread will see this one and jump in.

Not cheap way to go, but seems to be quite effective.
Click to expand...



Jerry Harvey who owns JH Audio is the one you speak of. It is a fantastic head set that I use over my Bose. He sold the headsets at sun and fun and Oshkosh for 1 or two years but has now refocused his efforts back to the professional musicians. He owns an RV 8 and flys it pretty regularly. Ill send him to the thread an see if he wants to comment.
 
If you are looking for a PIREP for the DIY molded ear pieces, I went that route. They process is easy and the results were a 99% perfect fit. The problem is that the missing 1% was because, no matter how perfect, the DIY is a one step process - you mix the putty, insert it into the ear, and let it "harden" to become a firm rubber insert. The end result has the slightest shrinkage and thus are not snug enough to be idea for blocking noise.

The professional molded ear inserts use a similar first step to what I described for the DIY. Then, they smooth the "plug", make a negative, and finally pour a positive. The result is just enough larger that it is a good noise barrier.

For my Clarity Aloft, I've used foam, triple flange, and DIY molds. I would rank the foam as the best of the three, followed very closely by the triple flange, with the molded plugs a rather distant third. Most of the time, I fly with triple flange - they clean up very easy.
 
Update

To update this thread. I went to Beltone, not realizing that they are basically a franchise operation (it seems to me) that outsources the fabrication. I think I could have gotten the same product cheaper by going to an audiologist directly. That being said.....

I went to the Beltone guy and had moulds made, they go past the 2nd cochlear bend, which the DIY one-step ones probably don't do. Before going I had memorized exactly where my jaw sits in a relaxed state with my mic boom on when flying. NOTE, for me this was a different position that just sitting around slack jawed in front of the idiot box. I purse my lips a little when flying :rolleyes: When I had the mould made I eschewed the foam bite guards and held my jaw in the memorized position.

Beltone had a myriad of different materials to choose from, I went with the recommendation, which was a hard acrylic material. I got 48" stereo lead. I asked for an in-line volume control, but instead got an adapter with a volume control. Its an additional connector to fail, but I wire-tied the two together so hopefully it won't pull out.

I also got (on recommendation from the Dr) vented ear pieces. this was to supposedly help with equalizing air pressure on ascent and descent. However I'm not sure its needed as working my jaw seemed to accomplish the same thing. The vents also reduce the noise reduction. for the last couple of flights I have plugged the vent holes, with no problem. With the vent holes plugged and the ear pieces properly inserted (this takes a few insertions to learn) the noise reduction is almost as good as my ANR headsets. They are very comfortable for 2 hour legs, more comfortable than my Headsets inc headsets, and excellent for acro.

The ear pieces themselves were made by Westone, and came in a really cool Pelican-like air tight case with some desiccant. I think they are really made for gigging musicians.

The ended up costing well over $300, however since Beltone messed up my order twice, and took almost 2 months to deliver the product, I got a substantial discount.

All in all I would recommend the product with the following caveats:
1) Shop around, but get an audiologist to make the moulds
2) Memorize where your jaw sits when you fly and make the moulds in this position
3) Don't bother with the vented ear pieces
4) Shop around for someone to make them
 
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