havard II

I'm New Here
I need some help with antennas I plan to have IC 210 ,Garmin gps/com ,Garmin transponder ,and Elt . I have tail wheel rv-8 and will be flying it off graval . I also fly in very remote area so need good range . Thanks for any input .
 
For com your best bet will probably be a bent whip belly antenna. If you are concerned with range, stay away from the wingtip com antennas. They are horizontally polarized and the ground stations with whom you want to communicate are vertical. The cross-polarized signals don't couple well.

I understand from others that the wingtip nav antennas do work OK. However, I suspect the "whisker" antennas off the vertical stab are likely the best. However, they are more expensive and increase drag.

I plan on using a belly mount rod antenna for my transponder. I don't think there is a big difference in performance between the different transponder antennas. However, some are less draggy than others.

For GPS antennas, I plan on mounting it on a shelf attached to the firewall just below the cowling. That antenna needs to see the sky. I have heard/seen others mounted on the glare shield, just behind the rear passenger, and on a shelf attached to the front seat back support bar.

I haven't decided on an ELT location yet.

I hope this helps...
 
Time for me to mount too

I'm planning on drilling holes in the other woman next weekend.

Transponder (Stub) - Belly, left side, not sure how far back. Trying to keep at least 3 feel from the transponder so it won't interrogate itself.

Marker Beakon (Blade) - Belly, near midline past bulkhead by elevator bellcrank.

Nav/GS (Whisker V) - Top of vertical stab and already mounted.

Comm 1/2 (Bent Whip) - Belly, each side and aft of the welded gear attachments but forward of the steps.

GPS - Top of Fuselage, aft of slider track.

ELT - Tail, Under fiberglass fairing.

I'm planning to run RG400 from Steinair for all runs (except Nav/GS) which came prewired.

I've been told to expect 1 or 2 knots airspeed loss.

I read several posts regarding line loss. From what I've read, RG-400 has a line loss of about 4db per 100 feet (it's really 4.4 @ 144 MHz according to 1 manufacturer). Considering your run is likely to be about 10 feet, your loss is going to be less than 1db. Keep in mind that a 3db loss is a 50% reduction in power so such a small line loss is very acceptable for your comm radio(s). Although I didn't get out my ARRL Antenna Handbook, I suspect the later is close enough for governement work. Ladder line is better than most coax but no way should it be used in a plane.

What many do not understand that radio transmitting power is not a straight line relationship. Doubling power in a radio does not double range. Improvements in range are influenced much more by radiation patterns of directional antennas. An example might be a yagi or phased aray and use an active element, reflector, and director(s). Such type of antenna is preferred by a ground based radio when that antenna can be oriented in the desired direction. Directional antennas also "hear" with the same efficiency they transmit. Good in the desired direction and poor to the sides. Airports don't use directional antennas because they need to talk 360 dgrees just like airplanes.

For you - terrain is your enemy, followed by atmospheric conditions and interference. Your setup can influence radio performance, but for the most part, I would estimate it's not as great as many think since most use commercial antennas, todays antenna wire, and short antenna runs (unlike that of a home based ham shack). Altitude will affect communications most.

For your Comm antennas:
#1 - Dipoles should be avoided because of polarization and they are directional. Unidirectional antennas are preferred and you'll find those on most all aircraft for comms.
#2 - Avoid wingtip - shielding by aluminum ribs occurs.
#3 - Keep your line losses down by using high quality coax, minimum number of connectors, and runs a short as possible.
#4 - Remember communication is 2 way. You can only talk as far as you can hear (Ham expression for all the power in the world will do you no good if your can't hear the response).
#5- If you really want to tweak it, have the SWR checked on your radio to be sure the antenna is tuned. Your radios should be looking at a 50ohm match.
#6 - Be sure you can get to the back of the antenna for service.

Probably the best advice, is to quit worrying about the radio performance of your comm radio(s). With today's solid state radios, commercial antennas, good wire and connectors, I'm sure you'll have a winning combo. You should really worry about mounting it so it won't break off, be used as a handhold, step or land on it.

btw - don't ever grab hold the antenna when testing out your transmitter. I'm not sure that 10 watts would cause a microwave burn, but you never know and I sure wouldn't want to find out.

One last thing - make sure you have good grounds. Without those, it's all junk.

73's OM,
AD4AC
 
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Oddly enough, the antenna manufacturers recommend that COMM antenna be on top. On my tip-up 6A, mine is just behind the baggage bulkhead. I'm depending on the Bob Archer antenna for NAV and Marker Beacon; there have been enough good reports about his product to make me confident. The transponder is a small antenna; I got one of the streamlined ones on the the belly. GPS can go anywhere they can see the sky; I have two which are bumps on the dash under the windshield. You could also try the roll bar or aft the passenger. Many people put ELT under the tail fairing. If you use a remote ELT, you will want to route its cable away from other power and antenna lines, especially the COMM antenna line; apparently bleedover can sometimes inadvertently activate the ELT. Finally, do a survey of all your equipment and their antenna/sensor requirements. I have an EFIS that uses a magnetometer as an aid to attitude reference, and locating it away from antenna and power lines and steel parts was a real bear after all the antenna had been placed.
 
antenna pics

Its funny how you never have the pictures of what you want when you want them so does anyone have pics of their whip antennas on the belly? I am thinking I will put the antennas where I can access them without pulling the soon to be riveted in floors, so that leaves the rear pax foot well areas.
 
No pics

Sorry, when I posted that earlier, I hadn't learned how to post pictures. At this time, only the mounting holes exist.

As as the com antennas go, they are slightly aft of the sticks and more outboard.

As far as on top or underside, ATC is on the ground so once wheels up, I don't think it matters.
 
Jeremy, I just istalled two com antenna's in an RV8 in front of the footwell area's and they work fine. Just allow enough room for the B&C to clear the footwells. :) Larry
 
antena location images

Here you go. Hopefully these images will help. For that matter, hopefully they will SHOW. lol.

Belly Antennas.

RV8012ant.jpg


GPS antenna

RV8GPS.jpg


Excellent reception in both cases...the dog can cause some interference...but only if you forget to move her out of the way...
 
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Whip Antennas

Has anyone mounted the bent whip antennas on the inboard wing inspection covers? Curious if this is a good/bad idea.
 
I have also been considering the inboard inspection covers. Mainly thinking about the spacing of two COM antennas. Putting them in the floor of the -8 is a lot closer than they recommend..... BUT..... seems everyone is getting away with it.

Would also appreciate any reason why to do it or not do it. ?????
 
Inspection Covers Good

Gladder's Gal has her VHFs on the inboard inspection covers and everything works fine. It will make trouble shooting very easy if you have problems down the road.