lucaperazzolli

lucaperazzolli

Well Known Member
Hi to everybody ! (this is my first post)

Has somebody a suggest for install my ANDAIR FS20x7 into my RV8qb fuselage

Thanx in advance
 
Welcome to the forum!

Nothing difficult to the installation. Click on this picture:


The foam was used to keep the fuel line from moving.
 
The -8 is just a little trickier to mount than on the -9 Bill, because it's over in the confined area of the left hip panel. I'll have to look for some pictures - you have to be a little creative with the tube bending.

Paul
 
N941WR said:
Welcome to the forum!

Nothing difficult to the installation. Click on this picture:


The foam was used to keep the fuel line from moving.
Click to expand...

Careful with that foam! It is combustible with very toxic fumes and will also promote corrosion in aluminum! I am sure nothing will happen and you are not using that much of it, but I would not want my fuel lines burried in that stuff!
It is really intended for household use like filling cracks. Just an observation.
Check the material data safety sheet on anything before using it in your airplane.
 
Andair in Stock location

Hi Luca,

Wish I had pics of the finished bends of all of the install, but you can get an idea of where the valve is installed - it is basically in the stock location, but with a special removable bracket supporting the aft portion of the valve mounting tabs:

DSCF0625.JPG
 
JonJay said:
Careful with that foam! It is combustible with very toxic fumes and will also promote corrosion in aluminum! I am sure nothing will happen and you are not using that much of it, but I would not want my fuel lines burried in that stuff!
It is really intended for household use like filling cracks. Just an observation.
Check the material data safety sheet on anything before using it in your airplane.
Click to expand...
Jon,

If there is a fire there, I will have a lot more to worry about than a few fumes. BTW, my carpet, leather seats, etc. are not fire proof so I don't see the point in using fireproof foam here.

As for the corrosion, that is not an issue as long as they stay dry. I read about the corrosion - foam issue before and from what I can tell, that happened on the gear legs, out in the weather. This should not be an issue.

The aluminum I used for the form has not deteriorated one bit in the year and a half it has been in there.

Regarding the amount of foam, after that stuff hardened, the top was cut off even with the top of the forms, which happened to be the same height as the tunnel cover.

Ironflight said:
The -8 is just a little trickier to mount than on the -9 Bill, because it's over in the confined area of the left hip panel. I'll have to look for some pictures - you have to be a little creative with the tube bending.

Paul
Click to expand...
Sorry Paul, I missed that he is building an -8.
 
Not a 20-7 but...

I'm in the process of installing a duplex 20-3 FS20x20-3. My kitlog has numerous pictures. My install is a little more complex I suppose because of the additional fuel return lines that will go out to the tanks. As you will see, my first attempt at simply replacing the existing bracket with an 'identical' one just a little wider flopped: I then used flat sheet and a supporting angle. I'm not done with all the pipe bending yet (need more from Vans), but I'm happy with what I have so far.

Might help.
 
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Wow !

It's incredible, in a few hours a lot of information for me! Thanx a lot to everybody. If Rob can send some tube bending pics I will appreciate. Sorry for my poor english.
I'm more happy now, it's real : I'm not alone in my adventure

Luca
 
I don't think it matters but isn't the valve in the picture turned 180 degrees? Shouldn't the pointer should be forward.

I've bought the valve and will be converting my -8 to Andair this winter. You photo was very helpful.

Thanks,

John
 
Doing all the tubing bends for the -8 can be tough . I ordered replacement tubing twice . One thing I found helpful was to bend and fit the tubing in sections, the piece that goes to the R tank I think I did 3 sections . Leave the ends long and overlap them ,ducktape the sections together . Once this (mock up) is removed then make your 1 piece part on the work table using the mockup as a pattern . This worked for me, I did very little adjustment to the finished part .
 
lucaperazzolli said:
.......
ANDAIR FS20x7 into my RV8qb fuselage

Thanx in advance
Click to expand...

Not to hard. All these lines are one piece...takes a little experimenting. Be sure to protect all potential chaffing points.
The fuel flow transducer (shown in pump picture) will most likely be relocated to the fuel servo fuel line....to get it downstream of both the electrical boost and engine driven pumps.
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fuel valve and lines

Not fireproof, but good ol asphalt tape, used to insulate aluminum AC lines. is a good buffer between the tabs to hold down fuel lines to the floor. Super sticky, and a good vibration isolator that will not react with aluminum. See your NAPA dealer...

HTH...Chris
 
This brings back memories...

I bought an Andair fuel valve at SnF a couple years ago and thought it would take me a couple hours to put it in my RV-8. The airplane had the Van's stock valve in it but I just really liked the look of the Andair valve. The real number turned out to be closer to two full weekends.

As others have noted, there is not a lot of working room around the bottom of the valve.

The other problem is that the soft aluminum fuel line that Van's supplies for this connection is very easy to accidentally crimp (and ruin). The valve has three inputs (one in from each tank and the output). I would very carefully consider how you will route the tubing then buy the appropriate A/N fitting from a place like JEGS speedshop. I think it is better to use a 45 or 90 degree fittings than to try to bend the tubing to a small radius.

After destroying the tubing once I ended up using stainless steel braided hose (also from JEGS) which was much easier to work with. It was fairly expensive compared to the soft aluminum.

If you think about it, this is on the inlet side of the fuel pump(s) so the fuel is really not under pressure at all so you could use just about anything for this application.

When you are done with the plumbing part you get to the other fun part -- mounting the valve and making it look pretty. A lot more work than you might think.

One warning: take a moment to ensure you don't plumb the valve backward (left wing tank to right inlet and vice versa). It is apparently easy to do (from postings on the subject from some time ago). It will still work of course but it will be mighty confusing for the pilot.
 
Tube vs Hose

Bruce,

Your post kept troubling me and I finally figured out why.

Braided hose is usually used where internal pressure is greater than external pressure. The braiding does a really good job keeping the hose under control and protected with high internal pressure.

Unfortunately, the fuel lines from the tanks to the valve and on to the pump are all on the suction side of the pump and will have pressure below atmospheric. If a hose breaks down it could colapse and restrict the flow of fuel. The braiding is not so good at keeping a hose open with higher pressure on the outside.

Pumps of any kind generally use tubing or pipe on the suction lines. The soft aluminum tubing is probably a better choice on suction lines. I know it can still be crimped and shut off flow but you can feel it and see it and usually tell when you've messed up a piece. Once it's in place without crimps or obstructions it is usually good for a long long time. You cannot always see or feel crimps in a hose, and hoses do degrade. Also, a hose under pressure tends to straighten out and "unkink" but under suction it will just close up the kink more, further restricting flow.

John
 
Bubblehead said:
Bruce,

Your post kept troubling me and I finally figured out why.

Braided hose is usually used where internal pressure is greater than external pressure. The braiding does a really good job keeping the hose under control and protected with high internal pressure.

Unfortunately, the fuel lines from the tanks to the valve and on to the pump are all on the suction side of the pump and will have pressure below atmospheric. If a hose breaks down it could colapse and restrict the flow of fuel. The braiding is not so good at keeping a hose open with higher pressure on the outside.

Pumps of any kind generally use tubing or pipe on the suction lines. The soft aluminum tubing is probably a better choice on suction lines. I know it can still be crimped and shut off flow but you can feel it and see it and usually tell when you've messed up a piece. Once it's in place without crimps or obstructions it is usually good for a long long time. You cannot always see or feel crimps in a hose, and hoses do degrade. Also, a hose under pressure tends to straighten out and "unkink" but under suction it will just close up the kink more, further restricting flow.

John
Click to expand...
I used the braided hose for the same reasons. I wonder if our AFP folks that cruise the post have a comment on suction pressure? Logic is sound and no doubt hoses degrade over time but it would take an elephant to crush those lines. Good post.
 
Good points, but not all braided tubing is the same. I had a hard time making the fuel valve to pump line and on the 3rd try got it right. But then it turns out it is too long to get thru the gear tower without bending, AHHH! So I ordered a flex line, as a lesser evil, there are already too many connections in there for my liking. Went with Teflon inner tubing as it won't degrade for about 30 yrs and is more rigid (minimum bend radius of 4 inches). We use it at work on the suction side of high flow acid pumps.





Bubblehead said:
Bruce,

Your post kept troubling me and I finally figured out why.

Braided hose is usually used where internal pressure is greater than external pressure. The braiding does a really good job keeping the hose under control and protected with high internal pressure.

Unfortunately, the fuel lines from the tanks to the valve and on to the pump are all on the suction side of the pump and will have pressure below atmospheric. If a hose breaks down it could colapse and restrict the flow of fuel. The braiding is not so good at keeping a hose open with higher pressure on the outside.

Pumps of any kind generally use tubing or pipe on the suction lines. The soft aluminum tubing is probably a better choice on suction lines. I know it can still be crimped and shut off flow but you can feel it and see it and usually tell when you've messed up a piece. Once it's in place without crimps or obstructions it is usually good for a long long time. You cannot always see or feel crimps in a hose, and hoses do degrade. Also, a hose under pressure tends to straighten out and "unkink" but under suction it will just close up the kink more, further restricting flow.

John
Click to expand...
 
Good info - keep it coming!

Jon Jay - thanks for the feedback and complement.
RV8RIVETER - excellent information, especially the info about using it on the suction side of high flowrate acid pumps. That's good to know.

I especially agree with your comment about there being too many connections already. My fuel filter/pump assembly looks like a mess of lines. there should be a way to convert the mess into a manifold that would make a neater installation with fewer connections and way fewer bends. Someday I'll work on that.
 
Bubblehead said:
there should be a way to convert the mess into a manifold that would make a neater installation with fewer connections and way fewer bends. Someday I'll work on that.
Click to expand...

I am sure a lot of folks would love you for that, just remember that a typical manifold setup tends to be pretty restrictive. Fuel flow rates are a bit critical, if ya know what I mean.
 
Good advice

I agree. The interior passages of the manifold could be larger than the normal fuel line tubing, and if we reduce the number of bends and fittings we should be able to improve fuel flow, or at worst, make it no worse than stock.
 
great stuf.....?

N941WR said:
Welcome to the forum!

Nothing difficult to the installation. Click on this picture:


The foam was used to keep the fuel line from moving.
Click to expand...



Please don't use that stuff since it is very flammable and gives of noxious fumes when burning.....
 
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