How much are you paying for your 91.411 and 91.413 checks?

  • Total voters
    108
  • Poll closed .
bjdecker

bjdecker

Well Known Member
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My airplane is due for it's 14 CFR 91.411 and 91.413 checks and I just got a quote of $550 for both. This has always been a relatively simple endeavor on my airplane (One ADHARS, One Transponder) so I was a little surprised at the 267% increase in cost over the last 2 years.

Anyone else have a PIREP they'd care to share?
 
Yea, I paid $125 for just 91.413. Two years ago, when I finished the build, I wanted to get both 91.413 and 91.411 done, and paid $285 for them.
 
Perhaps those that complain about the high prices should see what it takes to open their own FAA repair station, purchase all the test equipment maintain a facility that has fixed overhead costs, ground equipment, insurance, etc etc.... (not to mention dealing with the FAA paperwork requirements and audits.)

I actually hear this alot, "that's pretty good money for 30min work", however they usually say WOW when I tell them the test box I just used (AVX-10) to test their transponder/ADS-B cost 18K. The P-S test box I use (Laversab 6300) is a highly accurate RVSM certified unit so I can calibrate your air data unit, it costs about 17K without accessories. Annual certification costs for these boxes: $1600.

And I think my time (or any other employed technician) and experience is worth something?

So, If someone thinks I'm "gouging" them ($195 for xpdr and $450-495 avg for 91.411/91.413) then I encourage them to go somewhere else.

And for my soapbox, please don't show up to a shop, let someone work on your stuff for hours and then say I didn't bring any money...

And yes, glass panels require higher accuracy test equipment (compared analog altimeters) which costs more to purchase and certify.
 
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Walt said:
Perhaps those that complain about the high prices should see what it takes to open their own FAA repair station, purchase all the test equipment maintain a facility that has fixed overhead costs, ground equipment, insurance, etc etc.... (not to mention dealing with the FAA paperwork requirements and audits.)
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Walt is right on here. We run a Repair Station at work, and the amount of hoops we have to jump through to keep the feds happy is borderline ridiculous.

What you really need to complaining about is why this needs to be done by a Repair Station in the first place. As an A&P/IA I can perform and/or sign off annuals, overhauls, major structural repairs, mods, etc.... including some really critical, invasive stuff. But once every 2 years I have to bring my plane to a Repair Station where they take the newest kid in the shop, who may not even be an A&P, and have him perform what is essentially basic, routine inspections and maintenance.
The FAA really ought to consider letting A&P's, or at least IA's, do these checks. I'm fine with requiring equipment cals (my torque wrench requires one also), and special training.
 
Rallylancer122 said:
Walt is right on here. We run a Repair Station at work, and the amount of hoops we have to jump through to keep the feds happy is borderline ridiculous.

What you really need to complaining about is why this needs to be done by a Repair Station in the first place. As an A&P/IA I can perform and/or sign off annuals, overhauls, major structural repairs, mods, etc.... including some really critical, invasive stuff. But once every 2 years I have to bring my plane to a Repair Station where they take the newest kid in the shop, who may not even be an A&P, and have him perform what is essentially basic, routine inspections and maintenance.
The FAA really ought to consider letting A&P's, or at least IA's, do these checks. I'm fine with requiring equipment cals (my torque wrench requires one also), and special training.
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I recently had my biennial VFR Transponder check. The owner of the Repair Station did the check and we chatted about the PAPR replacing the VFR Transponder check. He said the PAPR does virtually everything he does … except the official Repair Station sign off. He did volunteer (and reminded me) that pilots have been allowed to do the required IFR VOR checks and log them forever. Remember VOTs?


So why not allow PAPRs in lieu of the biennial VFR Transponder checks by a Repair Station, with the pilot making a logbook entry with a copy of the passing PAPR?

When I suggested that he would probably lobby against using the PAPR in lieu of an official VFR Transponder check, he said, yes he probably would. He said it’s part of his bread and butter work. But I understand that other Repair Stations see VFR Transponder checks as a nuisance.
 
Before you vote on the poll at the top of this list, understand that the answer isn't for a simple VFR transponder check. It is that plus an altimeter/Mode C alitude correspondence check for IFR certification. So that's a lot more work than having a VFR transponder check. That's why there are two CFR sections mentioned in the question, not one. Also, if you have more than one altimeter then the costs go up because each altimeter must be checked. Sometimes there is an EFIS digital altimeter and also an analog one. Sometimes two of either type. Andy may repair stations prefer bench testing all the components for the VFR/IFR tests while others will complete the testing inside the aircraft.
 
$350, in the hangar, came with a truck load of equipment and as noted checked the consistency between all altimeters (EFIS, backup, and analogue).
 
RV8JD said:
I recently had my biennial VFR Transponder check. The owner of the Repair Station did the check and we chatted about the PAPR replacing the VFR Transponder check. He said the PAPR does virtually everything he does … except the official Repair Station sign off. He did volunteer (and reminded me) that pilots have been allowed to do the required IFR VOR checks and log them forever. Remember VOTs?
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The PAPR is aimed at testing ADS-B parameters, it has little/nothing to do with actual transponder performance testing.
 
Walt said:
Then why would you own an RV? May as well go have fun in a CUB ;)
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OOOOOrrrrrrr...................you could own both and have fun in both! Low and slow with the door OPEN; fast and furious pulling 4Gs. 😊 I never considered not having a transponder, but I live under a Class B airspace. So.......I can't not have one. The Cub, on the other hand......:giggle::giggle::giggle:
 
71459 said:
(y)This is the best choice. Think about what kind of machines these little sports planes are. Stay away from hassles like transponders and ADSB and have a lot more fun.
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🤣 not having to drive between Richmond VA and Allentown PA is sooooo much fun. But you gotta have the gadgets.
 
Walt said:
Then why would you own an RV? May as well go have fun in a CUB ;)
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So to own an RV I have to fly above 10,000' or into a Class B or C? In my RV8 I practically never flew into any of those and loved all the time I flew it. I got flight following without a transponder and I could even enter Class C if I ever needed to by just calling ahead. The closest towered airport I fly over all the time is a Class D so no worries there ever. Why would I not enjoy owning my RV?
 
Pilot135pd said:
So to own an RV I have to fly above 10,000' or into a Class B or C? In my RV8 I practically never flew into any of those and loved all the time I flew it. I got flight following without a transponder and I could even enter Class C if I ever needed to by just calling ahead. The closest towered airport I fly over all the time is a Class D so no worries there ever. Why would I not enjoy owning my RV?
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Only because RV's are fast which makes them great for traveling, I'm not sure why one would limit themselves like that.
For example, the DFW class B has a 30nm mode C veil which basically prohibits you from entering the entire area without prior approval.
So, you really are limiting the capabilities of the RV just to be a rebel.
You may have gotten flight following up in your neck of the woods, but good luck with that in most of the rest of the country.
 
I agree they're great for transportation and that might be a good poll in the future :

Do you use your RV:
A- for transportation instead of airlines
B- to enjoy flying an RV because in more than 95% of my flights, I don't fly far away in it.

I would pick B because I never felt limited in the type of flying I bought my RV for. I did use it once to save me from a 4 hour drive to Houston but I bought the RV8 just to enjoy flying it, not for transportation.

And my neck of the woods is 30 minutes outside of where you work there in DFW. I really don't worry about flight following in any other part of the country where I don't fly, however I got it both days from Charlotte, NC to Terrell, TX when I brought my current plane home.
 
Yesterday, 7 of us paid $155 each for a vfr transponder check. The shop rate is $125/hr so the extra $30 was my share of the travel expense. For the record, this service cost me $90 5 years ago.
 
Steve said:
Has your paycheck increased 58% in the last 5 years?
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Point being...consumer prices in the US, including the service industries, have risen across the board. Over the last 5 years, average annual inflation rate has been about 3.5% but in 2022, was 8%. Seems like it should be no surprise that that would affect the cost of airplane maintenance resources as well.
 
MacCool said:
Point being...consumer prices in the US, including the service industries, have risen across the board. Over the last 5 years, average annual inflation rate has been about 3.5% but in 2022, was 8%. Seems like it should be no surprise that that would affect the cost of airplane maintenance resources as well.
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Yes in 2022 it was 8% but why stop there?
In 2023 it was down to 4.3%
In 2024 it is down to 3.3% and continues to come down, but transponder checks didn't follow inflation.
 
MacCool said:
Yours didnt. Mine was the same price as it was 2 years ago.
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You're still making my point. If you're transponder check was the same as it was two years ago then it's not following the price of stamps which were cheaper two years ago.
 
Walt said:
Perhaps those that complain about the high prices should see what it takes to open their own FAA repair station, purchase all the test equipment maintain a facility that has fixed overhead costs, ground equipment, insurance, etc etc.... (not to mention dealing with the FAA paperwork requirements and audits.)

I actually hear this alot, "that's pretty good money for 30min work", however they usually say WOW when I tell them the test box I just used (AVX-10) to test their transponder/ADS-B cost 18K. The P-S test box I use (Laversab 6300) is a highly accurate RVSM certified unit so I can calibrate your air data unit, it costs about 17K without accessories. Annual certification costs for these boxes: $1600.

And I think my time (or any other employed technician) and experience is worth something?

So, If someone thinks I'm "gouging" them ($195 for xpdr and $450-495 avg for 91.411/91.413) then I encourage them to go somewhere else.

And for my soapbox, please don't show up to a shop, let someone work on your stuff for hours and then say I didn't bring any money...

And yes, glass panels require higher accuracy test equipment (compared analog altimeters) which costs more to purchase and certify.
Click to expand...
Absolute truth on the cost of equipment, I looked into it myself thinking what great money. For those looking for $100 check, how many would you have to do to pay off $18k piece of equipment? This isn't charity work, and nobody is getting rich.
 
Pilot135pd said:
You're still making my point. If you're transponder check was the same as it was two years ago then it's not following the price of stamps which were cheaper two years ago.
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You seem to be inferring that transponder checks are a universal resource whose prices across the country should be uniform rigidly based on the consumer price index. Like most things in the service sector, I suspect there's a substantial amount of regionalization in the way that individual avionics specialists set their prices.
 
MacCool said:
You seem to be inferring that transponder checks are a universal resource whose prices across the country should be uniform rigidly based on the consumer price index. Like most things in the service sector, I suspect there's a substantial amount of regionalization in the way that individual avionics specialists set their prices.
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Nope, I was just commenting on the price of stamps but I think you might have not read to what I was replying.
 
Just paid about $650 for an IFR check. A fellow pilot had tried to set up a bunch of airplanes to split the trip charge. (not included in the the cost). We both have Garmin G3X with G-5 back ups, and they counted that as 2 instruments they verified. That was not the impression we had when we set up the deal, and probably won't be using that shop again.
 
Dave S said:
Just paid about $650 for an IFR check. A fellow pilot had tried to set up a bunch of airplanes to split the trip charge. (not included in the the cost). We both have Garmin G3X with G-5 back ups, and they counted that as 2 instruments they verified. That was not the impression we had when we set up the deal, and probably won't be using that shop again.
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That was about what mine cost. Dont feel bad it is costly equipment they need to use for G3x suite.
 
Not sure all this complaining has much to do with RV type aircraft. Start your own avionics shop, and then undercut the market selling transponder checks. Could be a winner! :oops:
 
bjdecker said:
My airplane is due for it's 14 CFR 91.411 and 91.413 checks and I just got a quote of $550 for both. This has always been a relatively simple endeavor on my airplane (One ADHARS, One Transponder) so I was a little surprised at the 267% increase in cost over the last 2 years.

Anyone else have a PIREP they'd care to share?
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I paid $560 last year for IFR checks on my RV-6. Used a mobile guy with his own van and equipment. Did the math and the increase was lower than yours, closer to 200%.

--Ron
 
RV7A Flyer said:
How are they *not* 2 instruments?
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Well, some of the tech’s time - in my observation, a substantial amount - is spent in ‘set up’, e.g., attaching fittings to static ports, pitot tubes, etc. That’s only done once, regardless of how many instruments are involved. My guy did not charge extra for two altimeters, and, watching him, it seemed that the extra work in recording the data for two resulted in very little extra time - certainly it didn’t double it.
 
Maybe a tangent question is how many checks fail? Electronics reliability has gotten a lot better since the requirement for every 2 years was levied on us. Can we go to having a transponder check every 3 or 4 years?
(I do acknowledge that altimeter accuracy is a safety of flight issue in areas that require a transponder)
 
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This is a wild thread! Fun to follow. I don't see many talking about the transponder check that is required before the first flight. I am building inside of a Class B box that requires ADSB/ModeC. I can't even fly the plane for the first time without the transponder check. What do people do that are building on airports that do not have a repair station that can do the transponder check or the FBO's on the filed do not work on small GA aircraft?
 
Dave S said:
We both have Garmin G3X with G-5 back ups, and they counted that as 2 instruments they verified.
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Do you have to get ALL altimeters checked? The reg says “each” altimeter must get checked, but… the reg only applies to IFR operations. Can a backup altimeter be placarded “VFR only” and therefore be exempt from the .411 requirement? Never really pondered this question before.
 
Dugaru said:
Do you have to get ALL altimeters checked? The reg says “each” altimeter must get checked, but… the reg only applies to IFR operations. Can a backup altimeter be placarded “VFR only” and therefore be exempt from the .411 requirement? Never really pondered this question before.
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Look up the Transponder check (FAR 91.413). Required for ADSB operations. They typically do both at the same time because the air/data info has to be validated on the transponder.
 
JImKerr said:
Look up the Transponder check (FAR 91.413). Required for ADSB operations. They typically do both at the same time because the air/data info has to be validated on the transponder.
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Understood and agreed, but I’m wondering what is required under .411 if you have more than one altimeter, and only one is talking to the transponder. That’s my setup, and I’m wondering if I could just placard the backup altimeter (the one NOT talking to the transponder) as “VFR only” and skip the .411 check for that instrument.
 
Dugaru said:
Understood and agreed, but I’m wondering what is required under .411 if you have more than one altimeter, and only one is talking to the transponder. That’s my setup, and I’m wondering if I could just placard the backup altimeter (the one NOT talking to the transponder) as “VFR only” and skip the .411 check for that instrument.
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From a compliance perspective, only the primary altimeter used for IFR operations must be inspected and tested IAW FAR 91.411. The others can be placarded VFR only. The placards need to be very clear and leave no room for accidental use. I could see this being a challenge if the Altimeters are not reading the same altitudes. It could lead to being confused when flying. If you have an auto pilot that flys off of AirData from the G5 ADAHRS or something not tested you would not legally allowed to use the auto pilot for altitude hold, climbs, etc. during IFR operations.

Read the tests they run the Altimeters through. They go from -1000 feet up to the service ceiling. The simulate high FPM climbs and descents. These tests are designed to find errors in the full range of an Altimeter. It may look normal and then be wrong after flying at altitude then descending quickly to 2,900 ft to intercept an approach. Accordingly, any system that feeds the transponder air data needs to be tested and certified. There are parameters about how much difference the air data and the alt can deviate to be legal.
 
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