Dangerous Dan

Active Member
I get aopa news emailed to me.

I saw where new laws make it so I cannot land at any airport that has "commercial service" unless i first get a security check and badge for that specific airport before flying there..
If i dont get the badge and land there I must wait in my aircraft for an escourt or walk straight to the nearest exit.
is this true??

Guessing most of you guys are flying around the US and know what the real deal is... Cannot be as bad as it seems to some one who only experinces the "land of the free home of the brave" through the inet and CNN at the chow hall TV?

not sure if this would be better under another heading just could not find a better fit...thanks, Dan
 
I was in a couple of airports with commercial service two weeks ago with my -8. Each time the lineboy met me and escorted me out the gate, but gave me the gate code so I could go back in if he wasn't around. No big hassle. Has the law just gone into place? Perhaps you can past a quote from the AOPA email.

I did get a laugh in Burlington, Iowa from a thick red line stenciled "Restricted Area" around the spot where the commercial flights park. I guess as long as the terrorist can read "Restricted Area" he won't go past the line with the bomb-loaded car.

578338887_baKPZ-M.jpg
 
Last edited:
more detail and possible corrections

AOPA eBrief June 15 2009

Senators reflect pilots' dissatisfaction with security directive
By AOPA ePublishing staff

Because of the sudden implementation of a Transportation Security Administration security directive (SD-08G), many pilots and airport personnel are struggling to adjust to the requirements. Sens. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) and Max Baucus (D-Mont.) wrote to Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, expressing pilots' concerns.

Baucus stressed to Napolitano the importance of GA, explaining that ?Across rural areas of Montana, general aviation is [the] lifeblood to people in isolated towns.? He also pointed out ?an unfunded mandate?may disproportionately impact rural airports and general aviation, both of which are very important to many of these rural communities.?

Under the new security directive, pilots who are based at air-carrier airports will have to get a badge in order to have unescorted access to the airport. Transient pilots flying into air-carrier airports must remain close to their aircraft, leaving it only to walk to and from the fixed-base operator, service provider, or airport exit. However, the TSA has said that it will make provisions for self-fueling operations and grant allowances for emergency situations.

Tester noted that ?there needs to be a better understanding of the costs of these security changes, particularly to small, rural airports.?

He also questioned the need for the regulations to be put through the emergency SD process: ?The emergency security directive process was granted to TSA by Congress to allow emergency action to be taken to save lives,? when immediate threats existed. ?That it has taken six months to implement this security directive raises questions about the necessity of the emergency rulemaking process in this case?. It appears that greater transparency and public comment would only have improved the relationship between the TSA and the pilots and airport directors who are on the front lines of the general aviation industry.?
June 11, 2009

I guess this will make it go away??? eBrief June 18 2009

DHS inspector general: GA terrorism threat "mostly hypothetical"
The inspector general of the Homeland Security Department issued a finding on Wednesday that the terrorism threat posed by general aviation is "limited and mostly hypothetical." In response to a Houston TV news report, Richard Skinner said TSA guidelines, "coupled with voluntary measures taken by owners and operators of aircraft and facilities, provide baseline security for aircraft based at general aviation sites." In preparing the report, Skinner's staff visited a mix of large and small GA airports across the country. "The current status of [general aviation] operations does not present a serious homeland security vulnerability requiring TSA to increase regulatory oversight of the industry," Skinner's report concluded. Government Executive (6/17)


I LOVE the USA and pray she stays strong and FREE!
Grateful to organizations like EAA, AOPA & VAF for protecting our flying hobby.
Hate to be a scardiecat but as most of you know better than I, freedom is not free... waht we have is special and precious, easily broken... thanks, Dan
 
I did get a laugh in Burlington, Iowa from a thick red line stenciled "Restricted Area" around the spot where the commercial flights park. I guess as long as the terrorist can read "Restricted Area" he won't go past the line with the bomb-loaded car.
Exactly. To paraphrase Jefferson (Thomas, that is), such laws do not deter those who intend to do harm and only serve to restrict those who are neither inclined or determined to commit crimes.

It's probably related to the new TSA Security Directive, which is secret and can't be printed. I wish I were making this up.

TODR
 
TSA

Google "TSA Security Directive SD-8G" and read all about it. Well, not really all, because it is a secret, but we have to comply. This is yet another unfunded mandate by the TSA, which is to say, they come up with a silly rule without guidance or funding for the airports to make it work. This, like similar issues in the past will evolve into something workable. The bottom line on this one is that FBOs and airport operators need to be aware of who has ramp access. It is shaking down to some form of ID for based operators, which has already been accomplished at most airports with scheduled service, and the requirement that the FBO keep an eye on transients.

From a proir thread:
"The "problem" is TSA trying to justify their existence. GA is not now, nor is likely to ever be a factor in terrorist threats. It is, however, an easier "problem" to solve than the real ones!"

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
... yet another unfunded mandate by the TSA, which is to say, they come up with a silly rule without guidance or funding for the airports to make it work. ....
I hope it stays unfunded. I would hate to see my precious (to me) tax dollars going to "protect" us from an inexistant threat.
 
Seeing the light

Sorry got so excited about thsi stuff. bubbleheads post showing the line helps me see that it will not wipe out my dream of flying around the usa. Guess I have been watching to many of thise Alex Jones you tube videos.

Once again the wonderful communitay of VAF heps me see what the real story is..

thank you very much, with respect, Dan
 
Sorry...

I hope it stays unfunded. I would hate to see my precious (to me) tax dollars going to "protect" us from an inexistant threat.

Sorry Mickey, but in this case unfunded just means that the airport has to come up with a plan and pay for it themselves. Makes the airport the "bad guy" in some peoples eyes.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
It's been revised

First of all, Dan - Thank you for serving our country.

According to the EAA, the TSA security directive has been revised. Check this link: http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-05-29_8g.asp

Looks like no wandering around airports in search of that P-38 that's been tucked away in that old hangar for 50 years.

I still wonder how this applies to KOSH and AirVenture. Will they need 500,000 security badges?
 
Last edited:
First of all, Dan - Thank you for serving our country.

According to the EAA, the TSA security directive has been revised. Check this link: http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-05-29_8g.asp

Looks like no wandering around airports in search of that P-38 that's been tucked away in that old hangar for 50 years.

I still wonder how this applies to KOSH and AirVenture. Will they need 500,000 security badges?

Naw, thay got a published NOTAM, thay can brake the rules with that baby.
 
I suspect you are going the same way we have gone in Australia. This is the sort of system you may end up with. In Australia, anyone who flies into a "Security Controlled Airport", (basically an airfield that has regular, timetabled commercial flights) is required to have a security card, usually an ASIC (Aviation Security Identity Card). The ASIC is not issued automatically, is valid for 2 years, involves a background security check and the detailed ASIC application must include certified copies of photographs, lengthy forms, declarations, etc and the processing fee (I think it is was about $160).
The ASIC must be displayed when at a Security Controlled Airport but is not required at other airports. So, although it is not compulsory, you would be very restricted in your cross country flying without it. The chances of actually being caught if you did not have the ASIC are slim, but I know at my local airport the ASIC Squad have raided the airfield looking for transgressors. I would imagine there would be a heavy fine and loss of privileges if caught without the card. I can take passengers to a Security Controlled Airport provided I accompany then with my ASIC displayed.
In my opinion the ASIC is an expensive hindrance to us honest people going about their work or pleasure and would do little to deter a terrorist. As much as I hate to admit it, I have got used to the ASIC and it really is no big deal except for the cost and form filling requirements to renew every two years.

Fin
9A Australia
 
Dan DeMuri, thank you for serving.

Obviously you're already doing your part for freedom....but do you realize how powerful a letter to your Senator and Representative might be? As an active duty serviceman speaking from Iraq, you hold a certain moral authority we mere citizens lack <g>
 
Contacted my senator

Sent Senator Richard Shelby a little note about this never expecting anything in response. His legislative consultant contacted me (telephone) and told me to contact TSA as this was (paraphrasing) an incomplete piece of work. They told me they sent my letter to TSA and requested a direct response to me. I didn't think much of that until I received a letter from some director. He told me to get over it. Of course, it took him 2 pages to do so.

I don't know if what I did was useful. I don't know what, if any follow up I could / should take. Since I didn't expect a response of any kind, I kept no records, not even a copy of the original letter.

Dan, any thoughts?
 
The red line has nothing to do with SD-8G. To be inside the red line, you must be displaying a badge (not the one required by the SD; it has stricter requirements). Access is not the issue addressed in either situation. In fact, at KFLG we have separate gate keys and ID badges, though I understand some airports have combined them. Anyway, the rules are for presence, not access, which I personally find asinine. Be that as it may, I have yet to be challenged at any airport since SD-8G went into effect, though I did have an FBO guy at KSOW tell me I needed to go directly out the gate. When I told him I was simply looking for fuel prices, he allowed me to remain on the ramp while he verified the current price. I'm guessing he simply assumed (correctly) that I was transient. I expect that enforcement will vary from airport to airport depending on their perceived exposure (remember, they are subject to fines for infractions). I wouldn't be surprised to be met at my plane at Phoenix Sky Harbor but I haven't tried a busy airport yet so I can't say for sure.
 
Yes, ask our leaders.

I know you guys that wrote our govt officals did the right thing.. What is unfortunate is that I believe the politicians work for the people that finance thier campains, Not us. Oh we get to vote ... Vote for one of the preselected candidates ..

As we begin to share air space with UAVs and other stuff, maybe a VANS JET, seems that rules and restrictions will increase.
I know its natural to bring more order and control as we progress. I am Ok with one badge for all US airports. Suggesting some kind of badge that works for all airports would be easier to use or maybe have an RF ID chip implanted in my body. Seems that NextGen will track my airplane. I will do the implanted chip if it gives discounts on avgas purchases, ha ha ha.
I am wearing three badges right now. bet you have more plastic cards in your wallet, what is one more...

I agree 100% in submitting positive ideas to our leaders and decison makers. This can help make the new regulations more senseable. Your examples of writing to those in power has motivated me to get my EAA and AOPA fees caught up and maybe donate a bit extra since these organizations protect our flying hobby by doing jsut what you guys have done - bravo.

The next level is writng to congress or senators guess it is becoming time to get involved.

it so cool to interact with the quality people on this forum
 
Perhaps...

......
I know its natural to bring more order and control as we progress. I am Ok with one badge for all US airports. Suggesting some kind of badge that works for all airports would be easier to use .....

...a modification to your pilot's license and clip it on your shirt...:)

Why do we need yet another piece of plastic? :rolleyes:
 
All these airports are federal, so inacting the pilots license is a good idea, maybe we can push that so there is an answer to this problem. Seems thay have blinders and push forward with whatever is inacted. Lets give them something to use here.
 
<<I don't know if what I did was useful.>>

It was! Don't kid yourself. We'll always get form letter responses, but you can bet the issue and concern are logged, and will play some part in the decision process when legislation is proposed.

Personally I think citizen letters have more impact than an AOPA rep. The citizen letters set the tone. The AOPA rep speaks for us when it comes time to do something about an issue. If he goes into a meeting and it looks like the pilots he represents are apathetic, he's dead in the water.

Keep writing.

BTW, Shelby heard from me too. And Bobby Bright, and Jeff Sessions.
 
If / When you are sending any letters to your reps, you might consider using the correct terminology. Keep it as professional as possible.
We all know what you mean when you say Pilots License, but if you check your wallet, if you find a Pilots License :eek:, frame it because you are very unique. You have a CERTIFICATE.;)
 
big picture

Fellow aviators.

If you can endure the time to watch these videos it may help you see (as I do now) why things are headed the direction that you see them moving.

I aint the sharpest tool in the shed. Perhaps easily mislead. I think these three films taught me more about people in groups and the USA than all my years in high school.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...83847743189197

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...Q&q=alex+jones

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80711843120756

Mark Twain said "if you dont read the newspapers you are uninformed, If you do read them you are misinformed."

I have done additonal reasearch on the web and now when I listen to the news (and see these latest security & tax laws) it all makes sense.

DanH, now that I ahve base to start from I hope to follow in your trail with direct letters. Little moves, I am becoming part of the solution..

Very respectfully submitted, Dan
 
"After receiving more than 7,000 comments on its proposed LASP rule, most of them in opposition, the TSA has said it will issue a new NPRM before issuing a final rule."

Allow me to translate: TSA will issue an NPRM and after receiving comments, will make the same rule it did before.
Yes, but going through the regular rule promulgation process, it is subject to legal review.

TODR