T

Tram

Well Known Member
Just curious guys..

There is a discussion going on another board about how the leather jacket worn by airline pilots degrades the look of "professionalism."

Just thought I'd see what you guys thought.. :) Taking a random survey..

Here is the typical airline pilot leather jacket..

smallerinleatherstr2.jpg
 
Biased opinion?

I think you'll have a problem getting accurate feedback on any aviation themed forum. Why, you ask? Because we're all airplane junkies, and wish we had a leather jacket... :rolleyes: Seriously though, I think it looks professional with the sholder bands,(sorry, I know they have a name, just can't think of it.) and the nametag. If it was just a leather jacket, then it MIGHT look a little less professional.

IMHO,
Josh
 
RVAddict said:
Seriously though, I think it looks professional with the sholder bands,(sorry, I know they have a name, just can't think of it.)
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Epaulets.

I have no problem with the look, but then I rate pilots by their flying skills, not by how sharp they dress.
 
Leather is better

I dress in green to go fly, but wear a leather jacket to work each day. With rank on the epaulet bars, I think it is sharper than anything else.

As an aside, we used to be approved to wear them to fly too. However, that was taken away from us by the anti-aviation crowd (yes, the Royal Air Force employs some types like that).

Problem is, our leather jackets provide the greatest fire protection of any jacket issued/available for purchase. Nomex is great, but it can't beat heavy treated leather in an extended burn.

I'd like to see more airline pilots in leather jackets. I don't know if standard uniforms are fire resistant/retardent, but I think it's important.

My wife just got her first job as a stewardess and I firmly believe that crews should wear cotton/nomex combinations and have emergency headgear/gloves close to hand. Their primary duty is passenger safety and they can't help if they're not protected themselves.

As for me, I fly civil with my leather jacket and a pair of leather issue gloves and silk inners in my pocket. I may be overly safety concious, or maybe I get shot at too much.
 
In the USAF, only those with aeronautical ratings got leather jackets until enough non-rated crewmembers complained it wasn't "fair". The politics of popular opinion finally won out, and leather jackets were given to everyone, including "wings" just to make everyone happy.

That was 1992-3 or so. In the airline business, the leather craze has already started. At United, we have to pay about $300 for our stylish jackets and then the Company won't let us wear them on international trips. They say it doesn't look "professional" to those in all the far-away places. But many of our domestic crews have them now - I don't think our jackets have epaulettes on them though. Darn!

This is about as fancy as I like to look:

B777 flightdeck, in Maui. No jacket required!
777%20cockpit%20in%20KOA.jpg


Jeff: You've probably flown me in or out of OKC at least once! Where are you based?
 
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Google "professional" and read the wikipedia definition. Nothing in there talks about how a professional should look. Frankly, after 29 years flying for the airlines to include one extended furlough, two mergers, multiple concessionary contracts, one strike, one unnessecary bankruptcy that resulted in a 50% pay cut, draconian work rule changes and frozen pension benefit, I could care less whether anyone thinks I look professional or not wearing my leather jacket with NO hat and no nametag.

The guys on your other forum should be discussing how to get the work rules back that insure safety. How to regain the compensation commensurate with the education, training, experience and responsibility necessary to become a professional pilot.

My career is almost over (no working till 65 for me:D) and inspite of the aformentioned speed bumps, I would do it all over again. I do feel sorry for those that are just beginning their careers ... good luck and y'all better get unified.

Steve
N174AS
MEM
 
It's a good look, and a cool design, up there with the WW2 Luftwaffe and RAF jackets, but with the mirrorshades and hat, it says "motorcycle cop" as much as it says "pilot." I guess I'm used to seeing airline pilots in blue suits. Still, if the 'cop' vibe doesn't hit you first or at least goes away quickly, it's definitely a smart, professional look for aircrew.

As for the epaulets, they should be at the outsides of the shoulders instead of in the middle, or they should be deleted, with rank going on the nameplate instead.

If you get a choice, that is...
 
I would like to see airlines go to flight suits. They don't even have to be green, blue like the NASA suits would work. I think the public would think this is cool and fitting for the job pilots do. More importantly I do not want to wear anything close to what the robbing thieves know as management wear (read that as SUITS). I know it is business but what has gone on in the airline industry and the abuse of bankruptcy law is horrible. It may have meet the letter of the law but it falls well short of ethical.
 
As Forrest Gump would say, leather jackets and pilots go together like peas and carrots. Personally, I think the hat is the goofiest looking part of the whole get-up.
 
A couple of posts here have eluded to how our work conditions and pay have changed. My sentiments as well. At my airline you might be in Maui one week and in Budapest the next. Having a leather jacket for both places avoids the "flasher" look you have from wearing your London Fog type raincoat when going out to eat etc. When you leave the house on a long trip you dont have room for several color coordinated "members only" windbreakers, you want underwear and clean socks. As far as what the general public thinks, I gave up a long time ago since a certain airline has made us all "Wal Mart" airlines making it "affordable" for everyone to fly anywhere. (that includes people that shouldn't or don't need to fly anywhere at anytime) We don't get a whole lot of respect for what we do anymore. Every expert that pokes his head in the cockpit has an uncle/cousin that is in the military and can fly circles around you.I'm permanently in trouble with our chief pilot as I won't wear my epaulets on my jacket. And our airline made those skycap hats optional now,which makes it easy to spot the morons.I'm not bitter.
 
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Another opinion

I've had my leather jacket since '93 and I'm very proud of it, and it's heritage. (USAF aircrew)

The one area that leather doesn't do very well in is extreme cold temps. (-30, -40) The temps you might see during a decompression in the flight levels.

The leather jacket doesn't add to or take away from professionalism in my opinion. It's just a tie to history.

Bill,
I'll take you to task on one point. Prior to '92-'93 in the USAF only rated officers AND the traditional enlisted aircrew positions (FE, RO, LOAD, GUNNER, and a little later the BOOM) were awarded the leather jacket. :D
 
A300Driver said:
We have the option to wear several styles of jackets/coats/overcoats/raincoats etc. at FedEx.

The majority of pilots prefer the leather jacket- without epaulets - probably because the company initially covered the $300 cost with our uniform allowance. It's also a great jacket to wear on layover.
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Yeh, same jacket my pops wears.. He's an A300 driver too.. Hopefully one day, I'll get to wear the same jacket..
 
Grimr keeping me straight (again)

Hey Bob!!

Well now that I really think back, you're right. I remember Bart - my first engineer - wearing his jacket. But I definitely do remember the hub-bub over who got leather and who didn't. Once that floodgate was opened, it was only a matter of time until political (read: popular) pressure won out. 92-93 sounds about right.

Thanks!!
 
Whats important

Get rid of the frustrating luggage rules and you can wear what ever you want.:D
 
Gulfstream customer reps and pilots have leather jackets with our logo to look pro. As a matter of fact you should see some of the interiors. It's all about presentation and looking good. I have never seen a cloth interior ever. The head liners are even leather. You wouldn't want a sleazy private jet. They are nothing but pro looking for big wig pros. In school the pilots had to dress pro in their second year, and they all wore leather jackets and slacks. Maybe in some countries where they worship the cow it may be a bad idea, so I guess I can see the international thing. But leather not look pro? If you want the nice looking interior car/airplane/furniture etc. you get leather. I think in the pic you look totally pro (as long as the back doesn't say HOOTERS :p) I guess it's an opinion.:(
 
Looks great. To me, the leather jacket, nomex or leather gloves, and closed toed shoes SCREAM professional for the world to hear. Understanding and minimizing risks should be #1 for professional pilots. Unfortunately, typically we are forced to wear nylon and polyester instead of fire-resistant clothing.

The guys that fly around in flip-flops (Or worse, the guys that fly around in NO shoes in an experimental (because they don't want to get their interior dirty...) are asking to die in charred wreckage instead of being able to fly it to the ground if something untoward happens.
 
Tram said:
Just curious guys..

There is a discussion going on another board about how the leather jacket worn by airline pilots degrades the look of "professionalism."

Just thought I'd see what you guys thought.. :) Taking a random survey..
Click to expand...

Sounds like sour grapes from some guy who couldn't get on with the airlines...
 
Steve N. said:
The guys on your other forum should be discussing how to get the work rules back that insure safety. How to regain the compensation commensurate with the education, training, experience and responsibility necessary to become a professional pilot.
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Work rules? What are those? After our concessionary contract '02 at CAL, our work rules are basically work to FAR limits. Nice. Can you spell fatigue?? I knew you could...

And getting our pay back? I dunno man, we gotta leave some dough for the suits downtown; they need more vacation homes and shiny new BMWs.
 
No grapes here...

longranger said:
Sounds like sour grapes from some guy who couldn't get on with the airlines...
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If one is going for the "hero pilot" look why not go the whole way? Just add the leather helmet, silk scarf, and goggles and get on with it. I have all that gear and only use it when flying in an open cockpit. During my career flying airliners I never felt the need to profile through the terminal looking like something out of an old movie.

With the horrible state of the airline industry there are much bigger problems than leather jackets.

John Clark
Captain, American Eagle (Retired)
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Personally I think leather jackets worn by airline pilots can look somewhat sloppy at times, but it's just my humble opinion.

The silliest thing in modern terms, as far as silly goes in a pilot's uniform, has to be the hat however.

And, as traditional airline uniforms go, they get their 'professional' reference from the Navy skipper uniforms and professional nautical shipping business from the days of olde. The hat, the stripes, the jacket, the brass pomp and circumstance - it's all very Captain Stubing or SS Titanic.

Professional pilots were first called 'Chaeuffers' by the way, until they adopted their rightful nautical 'aire' and it probably had a lot to do with the fact that they took over where the oceanliners left off.

I flew for one of the first major airlines that allowed leather jackets, bought one, wore it, etc. Southwest got them. Then all the commuter airlines got them. Then United, and the list goes on now as it's a fad.

Internationally speaking, in most places outside of familiar northern cultures/climates we are used to, a leather jacket would not only be so hot it would be unbearable but would also look very odd. When there are language and cultural barriers in place, the silly hat that looks like a Goose parked on your head and the pompus coat and brass do a lot to get you sped through all the other 'official' looking guys with big hats and plenty of time to make your day very delayed.
 
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Uniforms

Eddie P said:
Internationally speaking, in most places outside of familiar northern cultures/climates we are used to, a leather jacket would not only be so hot it would be unbearable but would also look very odd. When there are language and cultural barriers in place, the silly hat that looks like a Goose parked on your head and the pompus coat and brass do a lot to get you sped through all the other 'official' looking guys with big hats and plenty of time to make your day very delayed.
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This is really true! Some years ago i was in my favorite uniform tailors near LAX and there was fellow picking up a uniform coat with five stripes on the sleeves. I ask what the story was and he told me that he was a corporate G4 captain and that he had found the value of a uniform while flying in Europe. He had decked out the whole crew, including the flight attendant, with slightly "over the top" uniforms. He said that their usual golf shirt and slacks garb was ignored in many countries.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
As far as what the general public thinks, I gave up a long time ago since a certain airline has made us all "Wal Mart" airlines making it "affordable" for everyone to fly anywhere. (that includes people that shouldn't or don't need to fly anywhere at anytime)
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I shopped at walmart last week. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed on an airliner?

What if I wear a leather jacket with epaulets next time I shop there then will I qualify to fly on an airliner.

Respect is earned on an individual basis. It doesn't come automatically with a profession, job, or mode of dress. You can be a respected professional in jeans, a suit, nomex or leather.

If you like a leather jacket wear it. If not don't. It has no status as to whether or not you are a professional.
 
N395V said:
I shopped at walmart last week. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed on an airliner?
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I think you got trolled man. I resisted. After all, who "shouldn't" fly on an airliner? It's just some grey, fat captain longing for the old TWA days when dinner was served on actual china and "the unwashed masses" couldn't get near an airliner. Those hoodlums rode the bus.

Heh, "shouldn't fly". Class prejudice is racisms' genteel neighbor.
 
looks professional to me

but looks can be deceiving. i really dont like light blue shirt and blue pants. isnt that what bus drivers wear?
 
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