Jim Ellis

Jim Ellis

Well Known Member
I've always wondered if Air Traffic Control recognized my type of aircraft when I told them I was an "RV9-A".

While reading an EAA email today I found a link to an ATC handbook that addressed my concern. It appears that all the RV models have an official abbreviation (except the RV10...must be too new).

To look it up yourself go to the following site. Scroll down to Chapter 5, Section 1. Click on "Encode" and then the letter "V" (for Van's):

http://www.faa.gov/ATPUBS/CNT/Cnthme.htm

Guess it doesn't matter to ATC if you have an "A" model or not.

Jim Ellis
RV9-A, tipup
flying
 
The RV-10 just received one last month. There is a post somewhere on VAF about it. I think it is RV-10/G.
 
Eguipment suffix

This has always been a bit of a mystery, after giving designators to Van's designs, there is a section for experimental aircraft with the HXA, HXB, and HXC codes based on cruising speed.

And yes, they don't care about your RV being an "A" or not. Putting an A at the end of the designator becomes an equipment designator. "A" indicates that you have a DME and encoding transponder. (AIM 5-1-8)

John Clark
RV8/G 18U (Flying)
KSBA
 
Incidentally, as a controller I know has pointed out, this does not mean you can drop the "Experimental" from your initial contact with ATC. All it means is the computer won't barf on it.
 
When I fly the FlightDesign CT, I use "FDCT", which is, amazingly, the official designator. Kind of amazing for a total fleet of 120 airplanes. I have yet to find a controller who knows right away what a FDCT is, but most of the understand when I tell them we're a light sport aircraft.

FYI, here's the official FAA designator list.
 
I always file RV-7/G and never had a problem. A friend who works here at ABQ Center told me they are going away from using distinct call signs like Skylane, Golden Eagle, Warrior, etc. and using the generic 'November'. He suggested it is because all the new controllers being hired don't need to/want to (?) learn all the aircraft types.

Anyway, using 'November 227KV' seems to be working so far. I don't see why controllers need to know if you are experimental or not. What are they going to do differently? :confused: Anyone had any different experiences?
 
MCA said:
I always file RV-7/G and never had a problem. A friend who works here at ABQ Center told me they are going away from using distinct call signs like Skylane, Golden Eagle, Warrior, etc. and using the generic 'November'. He suggested it is because all the new controllers being hired don't need to/want to (?) learn all the aircraft types.

Anyway, using 'November 227KV' seems to be working so far. I don't see why controllers need to know if you are experimental or not. What are they going to do differently? :confused: Anyone had any different experiences?
Click to expand...


They need to know ... helps them figure out spacing.

Flying into the quad cities, i was 5 miles behind a 182 ... :D ... after the controler asked what kind of plane I was in, he told me to slow down and the 182 to speed up!
 
You're all wrong. Saying "Experimental" is simply our way of letting the controllers know that all of the installed equipment actually works. :D

The "N" in N-number could just as easily stand for "No-Op"...at least for the rentals available in my area.
 
So...WHY does the FAA still say...

Homebuilt and Experimental Aircraft*

Designator Criteria
Type
Designator
Performance Information**



Climb Rate
(fpm)
Descent Rate (fpm)
SRS Cat.

Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds of 100 knots or less
HXA
500
500
I

Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds of greater than 100 knots, up to and including 200 knots
HXB
750
750
I

Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds greater than 200 knots
HXC
1,000
1,000
I


NOTE-
*Configuration diversity and the fact that airworthiness certificates are issued to aircraft builders, vice manufacturers, necessitates the assignment of generic aircraft type designators based on cruise performance, rather than specific manufacturer and normal descriptive/performance information.

**All performance criteria has been estimated because configuration diversity precludes determining precise aircraft-specific information.



I can't find a list of experimental aircraft anywhere in the FAA or the DOT. Everyone seems to know their designation but where is this information coming from??
Jim's reference back in 2006 is no longer a working link....
 
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Thanks Drew!

Just what I couldn't find..... :rolleyes:
Is there an ATC type out there that can explain what the three 'other' designators are for and what is the preference of ATC, these specific designators or the HBA, B or C version?
Thanks again.
 
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Just one opinion from a DAY controller (radar and tower). As far as my preference for the type identifier, I prefer RV3 through RV10.

The HBA, HBB and HBC specifies the cruising speed of the aircraft. The listed climb and descent rates are general guidelines. (ref. FAA Order 7110.65 and 7340.2). So very little information is communicated to a controller by HBA, HBB and HBC. Besides, I have radar derived ground speed displayed in the radar room and in the tower.

For a controller without radar, HBA, HBB and HBC will give some information beyond just ?experimental?. The RV line of aircraft is very widely known. So in my opinion RV7 says much more than HXB.

Even though the listing of homebuilt aircraft is not listed in the FAA Order 7110.65 (the Air Traffic Control Handbook), the listing is included in FAA Order 7340.2 (Contractions). I would not hesitate to use the aircraft type identifiers of RV3 through RV9. The RV10 is not yet listed in FAA Order 7340.2. I would still have no hesitation to use RV10.

To view copies of FAA Order 7110.65 and 7340.2, go to FAA.gov and search 7110.65 or 7340.2.

In the Indy Center computers, (I cannot speak for other centers or flight service), you can enter any four character identifier, even those not listed in an FAA Order. I frequently see the RV3 through RV10.

The addition of ?A? for an aircraft equipped with a nose wheel does not cause any problem, if correctly entered. The flight plan type aircraft would be RV7A/G for and RV7A with GPS.

Regardless of the identifier used, the pilot must still identify the aircraft as experimental on initial contact with a control tower. (FAR 91.319 Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers.) This is a regulatory requirement that I do not really understand. I do not control experimental aircraft any different than any other aircraft of similar performance. At Oshkosh, nobody says experimental. Very few pilots actually speak on the radio there.

The controllers are not going away from the use of Skylane or Skyhawk, etc in radio communications. BUT, there was a change to our requirements that requires us to us either ?November? or the type of aircraft stated by the pilot. For instance, if a Skyhawk calls ?Skyhawk 54739?, I may reply to that aircraft as ?November 54739? or ?Skyhawk 54739?. Technically, I am wrong if I say ?Cessna 54739?. This may be the reason pilots are hearing more controllers using ?November?. This is to eliminate the problem of a controller calling a Skyhawk when the pilot is listening for Cessna, and visa versa.

Dave Toy
DAY ATCT
 
I never used "Experimental"

And ATC has never complained..I fly quite a lot of IFR.

Maybe now they will write me up for a violation?..:)

Frank
 
Why...

jcoloccia said:
Incidentally, as a controller I know has pointed out, this does not mean you can drop the "Experimental" from your initial contact with ATC. All it means is the computer won't barf on it.
Click to expand...


...would the computer barf?

? 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.

(3) Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers.

...as far as I can tell, the FARs only need "experimental notification" for talking to a "control tower", not "ATC"....
 
ICAO strikes again

The ATC folks were given new guidance today on aircraft type identifiers for use in flight plans. The only type identifiers that will work, as the centers update their computers, are identifiers that are listed in JO 7110.65. :mad: How long other aircraft type identifiers will work depends on the center you are flying in.

Towertoy
 
And if you want the...

Towertoy said:
The ATC folks were given new guidance today on aircraft type identifiers for use in flight plans. The only type identifiers that will work, as the centers update their computers, are identifiers that are listed in JO 7110.65. :mad: How long other aircraft type identifiers will work depends on the center you are flying in.

Towertoy
Click to expand...

...full details from the very large referenced document...:)

Page 464 of page 605 of this PDF --

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/at_orders/media/ATC.pdf

Lots of interesting stuff in there - did you ever guess there is a communication method for "USAF civil disturbance aircraft" - I didn't even know the USAF had that category of aircraft...:)
Don't let the "black helicopter" crowd know...:rolleyes:
 
Say type of experimental

It seems like everytime I'm on Atlanta Center, ATC asks me what type of experimental. Even had a "sweeeeeeet" from them.
 
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