Sorry to hear that
rgbewley said:
George:
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I recall you posted something last week about a guy who had an engine that had a crankshaft failure. You couldn't figure out how a crankshaft that had been rejected twice from reputable shops made its way into this guy's engine. This post is your answer.
Some airboat builders use "reject" components. We have airboat builders that call us all the time wanting to buy rejected crankshafts, cases, etc. which we refuse to do. <snip> Since the engines are experimental, they put any parts in them they want and frequently don't comply with the mandatory parts replacement at access or overhaul.
I've previously posted a personal experience we had with an overseas customer who purchased an experimental engine from a shop in the SE <snip> He sent the engine here for a tear down inspection. Lo and behold, it had a reject crankshaft in it (clearly marked from a reputable shop as un airworthy)and a litiny of other components that had to be replaced to make the engine airworthy.
Caveat Emptor! You get what you pay for.
I LOVE it when they start out with I mean no disrespect. Oh course you don't.
Woooo woo. You are reading way too much into what I said.
You made refrence to a previous post I made about a guy whos crank failed. First of all, I know how the crank made it into his engine, he put it there knowingly and flew it.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=MIA03LA139&rpt=fi
In this case the crank was OUT, inspected twice by two different shops, both times rejected for a crack. The owner claims he took the bad crank (engine) to a third shop, who grounded the crank journals and rebuilt it (or he rebuilt it). The engine failed less than 100 hours later in the owners homebuilt Velocity. It's unclear what happened, but the owner/builder/pilot knew. Since the owner had no yellow tag and the shop he claimed did the work was no longer in business and also had no records of the crank, who know. Bottom line this guy did it to himself. How much the third FAA repair station had to do with it, don't know, but the owner of the crank knew after being told twice it was bad. Why would someone knowingly install a crank with a crack and than fly it is beyond understanding. It may be was an extream case of denial.
I can't disagree with you to be careful, good advice. That is what I said as well. However I don't think the engine's in question have ever seen an airboat?
I'm just saying it's worth a call. Where did they get (3) - Lyc 540-C4B5's with "LOG BOOKS"? My conjector is they bid and won some insurance auctions or three, that got wrinkled in a Florida Hurricane. It does not sound like engines that have seen any airboat time or have been split open. It sounds like they got a hold of some "aircraft quality" engines and think they can sell them to airplane builders for more money than airboater's are willing to pay. Good plan, they are right.
As far as your sad story, sorry to hear that. Anyone that knowingly puts a bad part into an engine and sells it to an unsuspecting person needs to go to jail. That's criminal and immoral. The case above where the guy knew he had a bad crank, who was also the builder/pilot, did it to himself. I have little sympathy. At least no one was killed, but his passenger was seriously injured.
I think I made it clear that if there's any doubt about an engine or crankshaft, it needs to be torn down. Agreed. If you buy an "overhauled" engine, deal ONLY with reputable people. However OUTLAW does not sound like they rebuilt these nor installed them in air-boats. I could be wrong. They sound like they are selling cores and engines that where running when removed from an airplane, but I am guessing. The answer is as close as a phone call.
The RV-4 engine I mentioned was the result of a hanger roof beam smashing the poor bird flat across the back of the fuselage, post hurricane. The front of the plane and engine was unmolested. The crank dialed out and the engine was not running at the time the plane was bent. The engine was regularly and recently flown before the storm. With full logs, I think I could trust that? Different deal than buying an engine with sudden stoppage or no history. That is why log books are so important.
Another scenario is the plane was outside and tumbled end of end and bent the prop into a pretzel. Even if it was not sudden stoppage and the crank dialed out, it would be wise to consider a tear down. However I'd pay accordingly to account for the tear down.
I bought an engine/prop/FWF off a light twin that crashed! I only payed $2,000 to the owner/pilot. I guess it was not insured. I sold about $500 worth of extra stuff I did not need (exhaust, gen, mags, feathering gov & prop). One of the engines lost power and made a forced landing, a twin that was at heavy wt. and high density altitude. The prop only had small tip damage, so I had a little warm fuzzy since I bought the right hand engine, the one that lost power! The crank dialed out. I tore the engine down and sent the parts out for OH. The crank cad plating was stripped, inspected and re-plated, all AD's complied with. The crank was actually straightened but was not needed. It was like 0.003, which is within 0.005 max specs. I had the run out zeroed. I think they either tweak it or machine it. It cost me about $8K to go thru everything or new, $800 for the Carb OH and $2K for electronic ignition. I have about $12K total into it, a savings of about $8K from a new engine. The lesson is don't pay too much for a used core. I am happy, but I was lucky. I could have needed a $4,300 crank, but I did not thankfully. If there was a doubt at all about the origninal crank I would have trashed it.
The point of this long story is cranks can take some abuse and still be good. There are deals, but there are also rip offs and people that do odd things like fly with a cracked crank.
It is the sudden stoppage that's the engine killer. All that rotating mass that comes to an abrupt stop can damage almost every part in the engine. The thing that happened to you is a shame and was criminal.
"Caveat Emptor! You get what you pay for." I could not agree more and that is my motto, but sometimes, just sometimes you can get a (safe) bargain if you're willing to put in some sweat equity and take a little risk. When I say risk, I mean financial not physical.
Regardless of price of an engine and our experimental status, safety first. I am big on maintaining our Lycs to certified standards. I want to make that clear. Cheap is not the goal at the cost of safety. When it comes to aviation and my plane I am conservative and always will be. I don't think used is bad, but used and unknown is too risky.
It still does not mean OUTLAW airboat has junk without further investigation. However if there is any doubt, walk away.
