[Webb]

After what recently happened to Black Magic, I was wondering.......

Does the owner/builder declare the repair complete and sign off and away they go or is there some type of additional inspection by a DAR (or equivalent)?

BTW - Anybody heard the status of BM lately?

 

[lightning]

posted on the 7th of july

I'm posting this knowing others have much more than I have in my panel

BUT..........I just added it up.........I now officially have MORE in my panel than what I bought my first house for in 1981...$25,000 at 18%, back in the Jimmy Carter days

That's just not right!!

 

[Webb]

Sticker shock.

posted on the 7th of july

I saw the panel sticker shock going on!!!!!

Just was thinking about all the rebuilding going on. I still am curious what happens after you declare the repair complete.

 

[N131RV]

No additional inspection is needed.

After what recently happened to Black Magic, I was wondering.......

Does the owner/builder declare the repair complete and sign off and away they go or is there some type of additional inspection by a DAR (or equivalent)?

BTW - Anybody heard the status of BM lately?

Unless of course, you made a "major modification" to the aircraft while it was being repaired.

 

[BlackRV7]

After what recently happened to Black Magic, I was wondering.......

Does the owner/builder declare the repair complete and sign off and away they go or is there some type of additional inspection by a DAR (or equivalent)?

In my case, my operating limitations detailed the following: "After incorporating a major change as described in 21.93, the aircraft owner is required to reestablish compliance with 91.319b and notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area. The aircraft owner must obtain concurrence from the FSDO as to the suitability of the proposed test area." Pretty cut and dry. Since I have installed a new engine I must fill out a revised 8130-6 to update Black Magic's file in the FAA registry. I will have a five hour fly off back in Phase 1.......which I am looking forward to with that new Barrett Precision engine

As for the progress there is one key word in the above.............

 

[az_gila]

Major changes

In my case, my operating limitations detailed the following: "After incorporating a major change as described in 21.93, the aircraft owner is required to reestablish compliance with 91.319b and notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area. The aircraft owner must obtain concurrence from the FSDO as to the suitability of the proposed test area." Pretty cut and dry. Since I have installed a new engine I must fill out a revised 8130-6 to update Black Magic's file in the FAA registry. I will have a five hour fly off back in Phase 1.......which I am looking forward to with that new Barrett Precision engine

As for the progress there is one key word in the above.............

Dana...is that correct if you installed the same model engine?

I believe that for a certified plane, an engine change (same model number) is not a major change and only needs a log book entry.

Why should an experimental be different? - given the same engine model....

gil A - in sunny NE

 

[BlackRV7]

Dana...is that correct if you installed the same model engine?

I believe that for a certified plane, an engine change (same model number) is not a major change and only needs a log book entry.

Why should an experimental be different? - given the same engine model....

gil A - in sunny NE

My bad on the engine comment it says different make and model of engine but I think my prop gets me.

Gil, while my new engine is assembled per service data as applicable to Type 0-360A1A as my previous engine was, my new prop is a HC-C2YR-1BFP/F7497. My previous prop was a HC-C2YR-1BF/F7666. As per my op limits, it says "If the major change includes installing a different make and model of engine or propeller.....file a revised...8130-6. I went from a standard blade 1BF/7666 to the new blended 1BFP/F7497. Still looks to me like a major change that requires FSDO notification, revised 8130-6 and 5 hour flyoff.

Thoughts??

 

[osxuser]

You are absolutely right Dana, the prop does require new Phase 1 testing, although I don't think it'll need 40 hours worth. If you just do a repair with the same parts, or an engine overhaul with the same dash number engine, you don't need a new flyoff, that is just normal maintenance.

 

[flion]

I thought structural repairs constituted a major change?

 

[BlackRV7]

I thought structural repairs constituted a major change?

I encourage you to just do a google search on 21.93. It is actually very small and does leave some room for consideration but it also leaves room for retribution. Here is the first paragraph, paragraph b refers to noise changes, as there is really not much later in the section other than the reference to using a replacement engine:

? 21.93 Classification of changes in type design

(a) In addition to changes in type design specified in paragraph (b) of this section, changes in type design are classified as minor and major. A "minor change" is one that has no appreciable effect on the weight, balance, structural strength, reliability, operational characteristics, or other characteristics affecting the airworthiness of the product. All other changes are "major changes" (except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section).

You could actually read this to mean a lot of "changes" are major and necessitate 5 hours back in Phase 1............

Remember here all I am doing is revising my 8130-6 to change the engine manufacturers name and prop model in the FAA registry and contacting my local FSDO to get their concurrence in using my original Phase 1 test area and throwing her back into Phase 1 for 5 hours as per my original op limits.

 

[Mel]

Your Operating Limitations Rule...

You are correct Dana. You only need to fly off the 5 hours for the prop model change and submit a new 8130-6.

 

[Webb]

On the form

I looked at the form and on the bottom left corner of page 2, #E list MAJOR REPAIR as one of the selections.

If I have this right - you have to:
1- fill out a 8130-6
2- have an inspection
3- fly off 5 hours

There hasn't been much talk about an inspection but I'm making the assumption that it would required.

 

[Mel]

No Inspection Required.

I looked at the form and on the bottom left corner of page 2, #E list MAJOR REPAIR as one of the selections.

If I have this right - you have to:
1- fill out a 8130-6
2- have an inspection
3- fly off 5 hours

There hasn't been much talk about an inspection but I'm making the assumption that it would required.

Not sure what form you are talking about, but there should be no inspection required other than by the owner.

 

[Webb]

Just trying to understand

Let me clarify - would a DAR or FSDO have to do the inspection to complete the 8130-6? I really don't know.

 

[Mel]

No, Not in this case.

The operating limitations are the controlling document on experimental amateur-built aircraft. In Dana's situation, the owner is allowed to make the repairs and sign them off himself. He must submit a new 8130-6 for information purposes only. This is to update the information in the FAA aircraft registry in Oklahoma City.
No inspection is required by the FAA or DAR.
Now, having said that, many FSDOs don't know how to handle this. The first time I did this for an applicant, the FSDO didn't understand. I had to explain it to them.

 

[BlackRV7]

Let me clarify - would a DAR or FSDO have to do the inspection to complete the 8130-6? I really don't know.

The original 8130-6 has obviously already been filled out, it only requires a revision, in my case, of the engine manufacturer and prop model number. There is no inspection, the airplane only gets put back into Phase 1 for a minimum of 5 hours per my op limits.

 

[vic syracuse]

You might want to contact your DAR for clarification. Some FSDO's require notification of any major mod's, and some do want to come out and relook at it. Normally, it is only 5 hours back in Phase I.

Vic

 

[pdecraene7a]

modifications

On the same line, If I buy a plane damaged in a landing accident, and repair it do I get a new repairmens certificate and what inspections are required.

 

[vic syracuse]

A plane damaged in a landing accident can be repaired by an A&P, the original builder, and even the new buyer (who is hopefully experienced in RV's or metal work). See Scott McDaniels excellent writeup in the recent RVATOR on line at Van's website. You will not get a repairman's certificate for doing a repair of a previously-licensed aircraft. The "annual" condition inspection will still need to be performed against the original scedule. Do not make any major modifications during the rebuild, i.e., new prop, landing gear configuration, injection vs. carb, etc. I wouldn't consider anyting such as lights, avionics, or interior changes major modifications.

Vic