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tomhanaway

Well Known Member
I'd like to hear from users as to Aeroled vs Ztron for nav/strobe/tailight combo.

The Aeroled kit is $1100. The Ztron kit is $340.

What am I missing for a difference of $760?

Thanks,
Tom H.
 
I don't have an opinion or experience with Ztron, or know anyone that has.

My recommendation is to do some due diligence, just like you are doing. When I was shopping for lights several years ago, the major issues were RF noise generation and light output. Many of the roll your own and less expensive units failed in both categories.

If they have a good return policy, you may want to give them a try to validate all their claims.

I have the AeroLEDs and they work as advertised, although admittedly cost a little more than I would have preferred to pay.

Bob
 
Ztron

I tested my Ztron strobe lights a couple of days ago. They are very bright and I have 0 noise in my headphones. When I first turned them on, the tail light was very dim. I turned them off quickly thinking I had made a mistake in my wiring and I didn't want to damage the lights. After several hours of troubleshooting, I finally gave up and emailed the Ztron support at 6:15 PM Central time....... To my astonishment, Warren replied within the hour. He explained the Tail Light strobes 40 times before going to full brightness. He said the newer tail lights (I bought mine back in the spring) go to full brightness much quicker. He also told me if I couldn't correct the problem, he would quickly repair the light or send me a new tail light. The next morning I turned on the strobes and sure enough, after 40 strobes, the light went to full brightness! My only complaint is that I couldn't find this in the manual. I'm not flying yet, but so far, I'm impressed with Ztron.
 
Strobe-only mode

The Ztron unit look like a cost-effective way to add a tail light to my homebrew wingtip lights.

Can the Ztron lights be used in a "strobe-only" mode? The tail light user manual explains how to operate without strobes, but I'd also like to be able to operate with strobes-only for daytime use.

Thanks,
Joe
 
24 hours!

Wow, it's been almost a whole 24 hours since this thread was started. I was sure that Dean from AeroLEDs or someone from AveoLabs would have chimed in by now. While they market a seemingly excellent product line, I'm very interested too.... in why theirs cost soooo much more than some of the competitors. (i.e. offroad racing guys, homebrew mom-n-pops, etc).
 
The AeroLed interface with the customer is beyond outstanding.

I have an RV-12 - during the build, one of my buddies said it appeared my tip lites were missing their o-rings. I called the factory and they said they had changed to a no-O'ring configuration, but insisted on sending me a replacement pair - "just in case".

They arrived practically overnight, and when I checked them against my units - they were the same - no O'rings. So, I sent their units back - at their expense.

There was zero paperwork - no RMAs - no nuthin'. Just First Rate customer support.

Oh! Their lites work great too - flawlessly after 113 flights.

Just a data point, or two.

Bob Bogash
RV-12
N737G
 
AeroLEDs vs. Ztron

I typically don't respond to threads like this, as we make it a policy not to post about our competitors as doing so can reflect poorly on our company if we come across as attacking or criticizing them. Since the question was asked about the difference in price between the AeroLEDs Suntail and the Ztron tail light, here is a technical only comparison:

This is a photo of the Ztron Tail Light:
pstl.gif


This is a photo of the AeroLEDs Suntail:
suntail-experimental.jpg


In the Ztron unit, you can clearly see the circuit board and all the components. There are 4 Philips Lumileds Rebel LEDs on this unit. These are 3 Watt LEDs. There are no optics in this unit for directing the light from the LEDs to increase the intensity in the horizontal plane (+/- 5 degrees vertical) where the FARs call for the highest intensity. The peak current for the strobe mode is 1 Amp. There is also no cutoff shield to cut off the position light from being seen forward of 110 degrees aft of the nose.

In the Suntail, you cannot see the circuit boards due to the proprietary lens that we use to gather and focus the light from 18 Rebel LEDs. The peak strobe current is 2.5Amps, and we need all 18 of the LEDs and the lens in order to meet the 400 effective candela requirement for the strobe mode. The Suntail has TSOA approval from the FAA for both the position light and strobe, and the unit that we sell to the expermental market is identical to the TSO'd articles. The side shields on the heat sink are there to cutoff the position light at the 110 degree aft angle as required by the FARs/TSO for the rear white position light.

The reason that the Suntail is more expensive than the Ztron unit is because of the higher bill of material cost of making it. The PCAs, LED count, lensing, and heat sink design all contribute to a higher material cost. We charge less for the units that don't have the TSO paperwork since we don't need to charge builders for something that they don't need, and it costs us less to build non-TSO units due to a lower overhead cost.

The fact is, that in the experimental market, it is totally up to builders to determine what they want to use, and they have the freedom to choose which product and which manufacturer they want to purchase. Ztron is providing a product at a price point that many builders will find more appealing, and if that is what they choose to go with, that does not bother us. We do appreciate the support that we receive from builders that choose our product, and strive to provide excellent customer service and support. There is overhead associated with running a company, and providing ongoing support for products, and that requires that we charge enough for our products that we can sustain our business.

Best Regards,

Dean Wilkinson
CTO, AeroLEDs LLC
 
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Just picked up...awesome customer service!

I just picked up my wingtip lights and the tail light from Ztron. I was surprised at how bright they were and the ease of which to adjust the strobe pattern.

The tail light didn't work and a quick email to Ztron ended up with a quick response from Warren and a new tail light being sent out.

Excellent customer support and for the price, I feel that they are bang on for what I need.

Cheers,

Don
 
I have the AeroLed's and am extremely pleased. They are super bright, and the local mechanic is now installing them on his customers aircraft.
Smilin' Jack
 
Without getting into another discussion of FAR requirements, part 91 does require position lights and anti collision lights. The specs for those lights are in Part 23 and requires lights to meet certain requirements for intensity, angle or coverage and for position lights color. Even if you somehow don't believe that these requirements apply to you (because they are in part 23) it seems like a pretty good idea that the standards have some meaningful value. After all you do want the other guy to see you at some reasonable distance right. I guess technically one could put a single ordinary red or green LED on the wingtip and call them position lights, but your airplane won't be visible very far away.

For me, I want the other guy to see me as far away as practical. Using lights that meet the standards just makes plain good sense to me. Aeroleds and other who have gone to the trouble to do testing to verify that their lights meet the standards have found that LED's don't get you there easily. Therefore the extra cost.

No I'm not paid by Dean, but have participated is some of certification testing of lights.
 
I have the wingtip and tail lights from Ztron installed on my motorglider. Ztron's aviation line was pretty new when I bought from them, and they've provided outstanding support throughout some troubleshooting, including free upgrade of the wingtip lights to their later model.

I'd say the main difference (ignoring light output) is the way they are shielded against weather, in particular moisture. Ztron's lights are basically naked circuit boards with a plexiglass lens on top that is mounted to the aircraft with silicone sealant. You put the silicon on as you install the lights. As I understand it, some of the more expensive lights are completely sealed and no silicon is needed. Ztron advises to protect the lights from the elements when the aircraft is parked. No problem on my motorglider but a reason to go for a higher-priced option on my travel plane (a BD-4).

Just my 2cw.

Holger
 
The Whelen Microburst line is another option. With long experience making strobes in everything from police cars to airliners...it's wasnt difficult for me to choose Whelen. They are a name I trust, the units are experimental only with a pricepoint I'm not offended by.
 
Whelen microburst lights are bright, but they don't meet requirements for night flight. In fact their installation instructions say that on the first page of the instruction:

Product does not meet the requirements of 91.205(c), required equipment for night flight. Airplanes certified for night operation should not consider this product.
Click to expand...

I know nobody from the FAA is going to go out to the airport and measure the light output from various airplanes, but Whelen does make some very good LED lights that do meet the requirement, but at a higher price.
 
RVDan said:
Without getting into another discussion of FAR requirements, part 91 does require position lights and anti collision lights. The specs for those lights are in Part 23 and requires lights to meet certain requirements for intensity, angle or coverage and for position lights color. Even if you somehow don't believe that these requirements apply to you (because they are in part 23) it seems like a pretty good idea that the standards have some meaningful value. After all you do want the other guy to see you at some reasonable distance right. I guess technically one could put a single ordinary red or green LED on the wingtip and call them position lights, but your airplane won't be visible very far away.

For me, I want the other guy to see me as far away as practical. Using lights that meet the standards just makes plain good sense to me. Aeroleds and other who have gone to the trouble to do testing to verify that their lights meet the standards have found that LED's don't get you there easily. Therefore the extra cost.

No I'm not paid by Dean, but have participated is some of certification testing of lights.
Click to expand...

A new experimental guy here asking a silly question, So, if we say we are set up for night flight we MUST meet the lighting requirements right? Or are some saying they are good to go and and not putting out the required lumens?
 
Thanks Dean,

....for the explanation of the differences (and for being as objective as possible). I guess the available lighting solutions, especially LED lighting solutions, really do cover the entire spectrum! :D (pun definitely intended) I for one, want to be very visible to other aircraft, both on the ground and in the air. I really like night flying, so for me, it's probably going to be between AeroLEDs http://www.aeroleds.com/and Aveo Engineering http://www.aveoengineering.com/. Right now, I'm leaning (or is it "LED'ing") towards Aveo. Then again, I know several people who are LED'ing towards AeroLEDs too. Some are going for HIDs from Ductworks and/or Whelen's, Baja Lights (racing?) or Ztron Labs too. I guess the answer is to do your homework, then do your shoppin'.
 
Scott Hersha said:
Whelen microburst lights are bright, but they don't meet requirements for night flight. In fact their installation instructions say that on the first page of the instruction:



I know nobody from the FAA is going to go out to the airport and measure the light output from various airplanes, but Whelen does make some very good LED lights that do meet the requirement, but at a higher price.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, I did not know that. Still, my duckworks landing lights are not certified for anything at all and RVrs have been using them for years. With that said, not much of anything in an RV is certified including the lycoming in the front. I'm building an RV because certified prices offend me. I suspect the whelens will be more than adequate and that quote of theirs is to keep certified owners from sniffing out the microbursts.
 
FYI, there are only FAA defined lighting requirements for anti collision and position lights. Landing light requirements are nebulous- just have to be able to land and taxi the airplane by the lights provided.

LL are much less of a safety factor.

FYI, I have had the Aveo nav/strobe lights for 3 yrs, one just failed internally. No lights whatsoever. Warranty, hopefully.
 
ColoRv said:
I'm building an RV because certified prices offend me. I suspect the whelens will be more than adequate and that quote of theirs is to keep certified owners from sniffing out the microbursts.
Click to expand...
Would be good to know why the Whelen lights don't meet the FAA req's. Just not gone through the certification process, or actually not bright enough?

Holger
 
shadowbrush said:
Would be good to know why the Whelen lights don't meet the FAA req's. Just not gone through the certification process, or actually not bright enough?

Holger
Click to expand...

The data is all on an old thread here on VAF. The was a sales guy from Whelen who stated that their new inexpensive LED nav lights didn't meet TSO or the FARS. If my memory serves me correct it was both in brightness and pattern angles.

He commented that too many experimental builders wanted something cheap and didn't care about the specifications in the TSO or FARs. Naturally, many of us called that approach B.S. Yes, we want inexpensive, but we also want safe and we do want to meet all the FARs.

Dean fro AeroLEDs was active in the thread as well if that helps you to search.
 
I know I'm very happy with my Whelen landing light. Keep it on during the entire flight. Got it for half the price of other LED landing lights.

Holger
 
My aeroled tail light went out on my supercub last week. A phone call to them and two days later they sent tail light and both wing lights to replace them all. FREE of charge with a prepaid ups sticker to send the old ones back. They were great better then great hands down the best to work with. No hassle.
When I get my rv10 close it will be the aero for me
 
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