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Tom Navar

Well Known Member
I am considering a 200 HP AEIO-360, which I presently have in another A/C, for my RV-8 QB The folks at Van's are discouraging this application because of the forward weight bias. I tip the scales at 136#. I plan an aft location for the battery, as well as a well-equipped survival kit in the rear baggage hold, and no inverted oil system. The prop will be a two-blade Hartzell C/S. I know that a number of builders, such as the Weathermeister dude, have used this setup, and I would like their input, as well as that of builders who are planning, or already fly with this engine.

Tom Navar
 
Hi Tom,

Although I went with the lighter parallel valve O-360, there are lots of guys that have the angle-valve engines that do just fine. Yes, the -8 gets nose heavy with the heavier engines, and it flies nicer with the CG moved farther aft, but if you wanted the ultimate finger-touch aerobatic RV, you'd probably be building a -4 anyway....;)

Maybe Danny will chime in - he has a similar engine in the Doll.

Paul
 
Hi Tom

Sounds like you are moving right along!

I would also discourage this choice. The parallel valve engine is the perfect choice for the 8 weight-wise. It can easily be made to produce 200 HP. The pilot sits just aft of the c.g., so your 140 lbs (I am recommending 4 pounds of clothes) won't make much difference. The choice of the Hartzell aggravates the situation.

Meanwhile, you are chasing your tail design-wise. You put the battery in the back to compensate for the heavy engine. It needs to be a big battery rather than an Odyssee to make a difference. Then add a bunch of 2-ga. wire. Then a survival kit, even though you are just bumming around the neighborhood (a few gallons of water is good enough for your neighborhood). You have added 60 pounds to your empty weight!

Now you have a plane that is just plain not as nice to fly, even after your years of hard work.

Add lightness! Sell the engine with the airplane and send the money to Lycon.

John
 
AEIO

Tom:
Not sure how the AEIO compare's to the regular IO in the weight dept. I seem to remember a separate oil sump with associated plumbing, valves etc.
Just guessing that it weighs more. The regular angle valve IO-360 weighs about 40lbs more than the parallel valve O-360.

I'm not sure where you live, but Don Swords of Don's Dream Machines in Griffin, GA. puts together an up-rated Ly-clone parallel valve engine that he claims close to 200hp. It's not overstressed and should give good service life.

I have an IO-360-A3B6D (angle valve) engine out of a Mooney 201 with the McCauley Prop on my -8. Yes it's a little nose heavy---takes all the up trim and a good bit of stick pull to 3 point land when solo.

With my plane's EW of 1120 and cg, your weight and full fuel my plane would be a tenth of an inch aft of forward limit. Zero fuel, it would be one tenth forward of the forward limit. A quart of oil and some wrenches in the aft baggage comp. would keep everything aft of forward cg limits.

I wanted the parallel valve when I was building but this engine came along at a price I couldn't turn down. Now I'm sooooo glad I have it. There's nothing like the brute force on take off roll and being able to cruise at an honest 180 knots at 7500 ft msl turning 2300rpm at 23in MP while burning 9.7gph way rich of peak cht.
 
Tom,
I have an IO-360A1A (angle valve) with a Christen inverted oil system, same set up as Danny King. I believe this setup is identical to the AEIO-360. I also have a standard Hartzell constant speed prop. My Concorde battery is aft mounted and my strobe power supply is mounted in the bay aft of the baggage compartment. I mounted my ELT under the vertical stab. I weigh 225 lbs. My airplane weighs 1157 lbs (without paint but with everything else installed). I have the standard gear legs. I don't have an autopilot. I don't stay straight and level long enough to warrant one! With the measures I have taken it is almost impossible to load the aircraft out of either the fwd or aft CG limits. If I was 140 lbs the fwd limit would probably be exceeded slightly. The only time I run out of available up trim is when I have forgotten to move my 20 lb tool/survival kit from the forward baggage to the aft baggage and with the power chopped. If I move the tool kit aft, trim is not a problem.
If you want the inverted capability, go ahead and install it. I wouldn't trade my full aerobatic capability and the extra horses for nothing! A parallel valve engine can be made to put out close to 200 hp, but it ain't a 200hp engine! The angle valve will have more torque throughout the horsepower range. My engine actually puts out 208 hp in standard sea-level conditions. With some speed mods and attention to detail like John did on his airplane you can cetainly make up some speed, but when I push the throttle forward on takeoff roll and initial climb, there's no mistakin' on what I have up front! While the angle valve adds close to 40 lbs and the inverted system is probably good for another 15 if you count the hoses and extra oil, I wouldn't change a thing.

Jerry
RV-8 N84JE 102 awesome hours!
 
P.S. I'm not really sure why Van's is discouraging your engine choice. They specifically designed the RV-8 to accomodate engines up to 200 hp.
 
AIO-360 in RV-8

Gentlemen of The Air Force; Thank you kindly for your advice and counsel in regards to my eventual engine choice. I respect and value your suggestions, as the collective experience is truly vast. The airplane which the engine is attached to is an awesome Pitts S2A that has been in this area since new, and belonged to two departed friends of mine; one a WWII P-51 driver. It is a bit of an heirloom, and I've come to the conclusion that I cannot disgrace it, nor the spirit of my departed fellow aviators, by removing its motor. I've come to learn a great deal from this marvelous little flying machine, not the least of which is humility.
I think now the best way is the 180 HP engine, especially in view of the CG. I'm looking for extra range, such as with the tubular wing tanks along the spar, as I envision adventures far and wide. The finer details on ignition, carburation vs injection, etc., will come with time, visits to fly-ins, and the daily pleasure of perusing this site. It has become a pleasant addiction.

Paul: Congratulations on finding romance. Interesting how all things appear fresh and vibrant when love again finds us.... I went ahead and took the second plunge with a wonderful woman who loves me as I am; including my many passions. She has given me a beautiful 6-year-old princess who just loves to come out to the hangar and help me with the RV.

John Huft: We now fly fully clothed, as we had a bit of a problem with one of the Commandantes in Mexico who thought we were a bit underdressed for the visit to his office. Those Skywagon forays into the hinterlands pegged our fun meters to the max! I've tamed it down a bit.
Mr. Mannan, RV8squaz, et al.: Thank you also... If you come to LOA this year, I live at TA-50, right down the hill from 5T6. "Mi casa es su casa"

Tom Navar
RV-8 QB
Pitts S2A
Cessna 180
 
Okay, on that note is range really that big a deal. In a plane that climbs back to altitude in 4 minutes who cares about a fuel stop?? In a 172 where a fuel stop BLOWS a 30-45 minute hole in the transit time sure it'd be nice to fly farther non-stop but an RV ought to be able to do a stop in 15 minutes with a little focus. And how often are you really going farther than 700 miles?? And how much does an extra 100-150 lbs in fuel/tanks/plumbing slow you down on the front end of x-ctry and errode the benefit of flying with an extra 15 gallons??

Honest questions, not bagging on your ideal RV, just not the way I'd go.

Grant
 
Long Range

Grant: Thanks for your input. I was thinking more along the lines of the great circle route to England, France, and Spain. Even then, and additional tank on the rear seat as well as a relief tube would be of great comfort on the missed approach into Sonderstrom Bay.
Tom
RV-8 QB
ailerons on wings
working on flaps
 
Rear seat AUX tank.

Tom Navar said:
Grant: Thanks for your input. I was thinking more along the lines of the great circle route to England, France, and Spain. Even then, and additional tank on the rear seat as well as a relief tube would be of great comfort on the missed approach into Sonderstrom Bay.
Tom
RV-8 QB
ailerons on wings
working on flaps
Click to expand...

One of my missions when I get my bird (-8A) in the air will be to fly it to central and south america. I have been toying with the idea of a rear seat mounted AUX tank. Is anyone making these out there or do I have to roll my own?

BTW, I know about the SafeAir wing mounted tanks, and are an additional option but with 8 Gal total over stock, they hardly seem worth it. I'm hoping for an extra 20-30Gal in the back.
 
Horse Power!

I have the Lyc. AEIO390X w/MT 3blade counter balanced prop. This prop is considerably lighter than the Hartzell. Met w/a guy from WI that has the 390 in his 8 & loves. I'll let u know in a month or so how it flys!
 
I0-360

Hi Guys I co built an 8a in Queens NY we installed an engine from a mooney that had a diagreement with a tree that fell on it on the ramp and we got a hartzell c/s from a 6 driver (compact hub) 600 hrs which he had rebuilt for us thank you. We ended up with a 1134lb 8a no paint battery and strobe in rear.For solo flight we need 40lbs ballast in rear baggage (heavy steam gauges) when we go to dynon we will be able to adjust that. We set up a tool kit plus oil etc. to reach 40 lbs. On my first takeoff in the 8a i added powes slowly i was in the air as i said four on my count climb is unbelievable and speeds 180 mph 4000 ft 24/24 8000 betterthan 200 half way through 25 hour test. So far it meets or exceeds vans numbers. So go IO-360 you wont regret it.

cyril
 
Jon Johannson....

.....from Oz has 18 hours of fuel in his -4!! Wingtip fuel tanks he made hold around 17 gallons each IIRC, plus 50 gallons in the rear seat. You can read his story on Van's web site by scrolling down on the right side and click on his name.

Regards,
 
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