J

Jack Tyler

Well Known Member
I'm trying to build an understanding of what it means to tackle a RV-12 project. Big pieces of that process will occur in several weeks when I can see (and, fingers crossed, fly) Mitch's RV-12 at Sebring's Expo. But meanwhile, pricing out the project is something I can do now.

I've read the -12 manual portion that discusses the tool list. What I'd welcome here are your comments on the importance of the 'optional' tools mentioned:
-- pneumatic rivet puller (just 'easier'? quicker, too? and does it also produce a more reliable result?)
-- bandsaw (and preferred over a table saw, I presume)
-- drill press (vs. separate stand for use with a drill; and just 'how much' drill press is needed, since most are pretty big/heavy/$$?)

I'm assuming that a belt sander, bench grinder (and of course, shop vac) are 'givens' even tho' they are described as 'very helpful' but not essential.

Thanks (again) for the coaching, folks.

Jack
 
Jack Tyler said:
-- pneumatic rivet puller (just 'easier'? quicker, too? and does it also produce a more reliable result?)
-- bandsaw (and preferred over a table saw, I presume)
-- drill press (vs. separate stand for use with a drill; and just 'how much' drill press is needed, since most are pretty big/heavy/$$?)

I'm assuming that a belt sander, bench grinder (and of course, shop vac) are 'givens' even tho' they are described as 'very helpful' but not essential.

Thanks (again) for the coaching, folks.

Jack
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Jack, based on my experience to date, I'd say:

- pneumatic puller - Essential. Your arms will never be the same after pulling 12,000 rivets by hand. Does a very consistent job too.

- bandsaw - not essential but very useful. You don't need a big one.

- drill press - essential. You can do a lot with hand-held power drills, but there are times (like countersinking) when you'll want better control. Again, you don't need a big one. The common $75 benchtop models are quite OK.

Another very useful tool I've got is a Ryobi combined belt sander and grinder fitted with a Scotchbrite wheel. The sanding belt is only about 60mm wide, but it's great for cleaning up edges.
 
In addition to what has been listed, you will want 2-3 pairs of cleco pliers. They seem to disappear! A pneumatic cleco tool is very handy also. Saves your time, and your hands!

http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=20111

I would also highly recommend an Avery pneumatic rivet squeezer. They are pricey, but you can get 80-90% of your money back by selling it when you are done. The results you get with the pneumatic squeezer are very good, very consistant. They save a lot of strain on your wrist and hands.

http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=7530

Add a couple die grinders and you are almost set. A straight, and a 90 degree makes for a great combo.

http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=7758
http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=7759
 
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Tools I would not want to be without:

- Scotchbrite wheel on a bench grinder. The wheel is likely to cost as much as the bench grinder, but it was $100-ish well spent
- Band saw with fine tooth blade. $100 for the saw (available cheaper on Craig's list) and $18 for the blade
- A good, strong vise. Again, dozens available used.
- Pneumatic rivet puller. Very cheap at $38 (Harbor Freight), but the air compressor isn't. The puller doesn't need much air, though, so a small compressor will do. I see them on Craig's list quite often also. I wish someone would invent a cordless electric model, though.
- Cleveland Tools Main Squeeze. You'll love it for the #4 rivets. It's pricey, though. I wouldn't have it if I hadn't been able to borrow it.
- Small, light cordless drill. I bought a LiMH model from Sears ($89) that works great. The small size and weight make it much easier to use in tight quarters.

I have a drill press but never use it. I hear that it's handy for drilling the flaperon counterweights, so my opinion may change next week.
 
Jack, you have just received very good advice. I would second the motion on the pneumatic squeezer. One of the threads mentions Cleveland's Main Squeeze which is a hand squeezer. This is a first class tool, but it is pricey. I used a friends and threw rocks at the inexpensive squeezer that I purchased. After crunching the numbers, I felt it was worth the extra money to buy the Avery Pneumatic squeezer. It has been a good purchase, I would not be without it. If you decide to buy it, you should also buy the optional adjustable set and get the three inch head. Happy building, enjoy!
 
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2 pneumatic pop rivet pullers at Harbor Freight Which one?

There are 2 pneumatic pop rivet pullers at Harbor Freight, one for up to 1/4" rivets and one for up to 1/4" one for $70 and one for up to 3/16" for $40. Which one is needed to pull the rivets in a RV 12? Seems either would pull #3 or #4 rivets but the larger one may do a better job??????
 
I have both. I prefer the smaller of the two. Neither has any trouble at all with the LP4 rivets of the RV-12, but the smaller one fits into (I guess this is obvious) smaller places, and for long riveting sessions the lighter weight is appreciated.

cleve_thompson said:
There are 2 pneumatic pop rivet pullers at Harbor Freight, one for up to 1/4" rivets and one for up to 1/4" one for $70 and one for up to 3/16" for $40. Which one is needed to pull the rivets in a RV 12? Seems either would pull #3 or #4 rivets but the larger one may do a better job??????
Click to expand...
 
cleve_thompson said:
There are 2 pneumatic pop rivet pullers at Harbor Freight, one for up to 1/4" rivets and one for up to 1/4" one for $70 and one for up to 3/16" for $40. Which one is needed to pull the rivets in a RV 12? Seems either would pull #3 or #4 rivets but the larger one may do a better job??????
Click to expand...

I went for the $70 one because out of 12,000 pulled rivets to set, the difference of $30 amounts to 0.0024 per rivet... Joke apart, the pleasure of shooting pulled rivets should not be spoiled by a lower quality tool. Compared to pneumatic squeezers, these pneumatic pullers are dirt cheap. Do not dismiss the manual puller either, especially the one that comes with the Avery Kit because its thin head allows to go into places (there are very few of them) inaccessible to the pneumatic puller which has a fat head.
I second the ratcheting crimper, it is a miss in the tool list.
All other advices you received are good, go with them, these guys have been there, done that and know what they are doing.
 
I appreciate the comments so far - thanks very much! And while some of these tool costs are a bit breathtaking, anything that moves things along more quickly, does a better job, and/or (perhaps most importantly) is easier on the body strikes me as worth the money.

The terminology is certainly a bit mystifying - e.g. is a 'puller' the same thing as a 'squeezer'? Apparently not if Harbor Freight's pneumatic puller is $40 and Avery's pneumatic squeezer is $570. I guess 'kit research' must now take a back seat to 'tool research'.

BTW, a big thanks to Brad Oliver, who's nicely illustrated 'tool crib', with helpful comments, has burned off some of the fog.
http://www.rv7factory.com/tools.php

Jack
 
I could be mistaken about this but, I don't think the larger 1/4" puller has the screw-in tip for the smaller diameter rivets. I bought the larger one initially and returned it because of the correct tip being missing.
 
Pneumatic squeezer on -12

diamond said:
Just curious how much use does a pneumatic rivet sqeezer get on a -12?
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Without trying to go back and count the rivets, I would say there are a couple hundred of the #4 size where the pneumatic will save time and effort. You don't have to have it, especially if your hand squeezer is a Cleaveland Main Squeeze, but it is a big help. I found the #4 size rivets to be quite difficult to squeeze in one pass with my Avery hand squeezer, but if you make two squeezes, readjusting the tool between each to keep it working at it's maximum leverage, you can do it. After practicing this a bit, I went ahead and ordered a pneumatic because I wanted the convenience. Since my Avery had a 3" yoke, I ordered the pneumatic with a longeron yoke, which is real handy setting rivets next to an edge with a flange. The yokes are interchangeable between the hand squeezer and the pneumatic. With a pneumatic you also will want an adjustable set holder or the tool is not convenient at all, and you will have to use washers to adjust the squeeze, a real PITA. The hand squeezer comes with an adjustable set holder, but the pheumatics typically do not.

A friend who is building a 12 is doing it all with a Main Squeeze. Many others have done it all with an Avery hand squeezer. Like has been said before, you can sell your pneumatic after the build and recover a lot of that cost...but I have kept mine, I like tools :).
 
I second the bench grinder with scotchbright wheel. In addition to deburring, I use it to polish the contact surface of hammers, rivet pullers and anything else that touches the Al skins. (It works pretty good to sharpen nippers for trimming horse hooves, too...)


This close-quarters rivet puller is pretty handy when pulling a rivet close to a corner, as when attaching wing ribs to spars:

http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=5012
 
Dgamble said:
I have a drill press but never use it. I hear that it's handy for drilling the flaperon counterweights, so my opinion may change next week.
Click to expand...

Another trick: There is some thick-walled 5/16" tube in the empennage kit that has to be cut accurately to length for various spacers You could use a hacksaw and vice, but it's very difficult to do this with any precision.

However, if you put the tube in a bench drill, you can adjust the projecting length of the tube to the correct height and use a hacksaw blade held horizontally as a cut-off tool. Takes a minute or two, but makes a very clean cut. While it's still in the drill, polish up the end with a bit of fine sandpaper, and the sides with scotchbrite, and you will have very nicely finished part. And it will be the correct length!
 
A follow-up Q, please...

I'm finding several references (on-line portion of -12 Builder's Manual being one) to the -12 kit calling mostly for blind rivets, which I think means that the use of other (non-'Pop') rivets that must be 'bucked' is relatively infrequent. For those of you having built a -12, how has this influenced your choice of tools?

Thanks, once again. (I'm not sure if I'll have more Q's or fewer Q's after Sebring! But meanwhile, this Forum has been *very* helpful).

Jack
 
Hey Jack - -

Most are pop rivets. Others are generally smaller that can be squeezed with a manual tool. They are quite easy to squeeze in most cases.

John Bender
 
The use of solid rivets is relatively less than that of blind ("pop") rivets in the sense that there are about 12,000 blind rivets, but it will still end up being a few hundred solid rivets just for those that hold in nutplates alone. Those are mostly #3 and squeeze easily. There are a few dozen #4s - they aren't nearly as easy.

I recommend buying a good squeezer whether, it be manual or pneumatic - you'll have no trouble selling it when you're done.
 
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