R

rocketeer13

I'm New Here
Recently, I discovered an RV-6 sitting at a local airport. This thing has an IO-360/const speed prop, a very basic IFR panel, and a sliding canopy. However, it has not been flown in around 2 years. During this time the airplane has been tied down outside with absolutely no long-term storage protection of any sort.

Airport scuttlebutt says that this airplane was originally built by a local A&P for a wealthy customer, who flew it for several years and then sold it to have an RV-8 built for him by the same A&P. I am told that the workmanship (while not show quality) is quite good and that everything inside has been primed properly. The airplane has a lot of nice things like electric trim, a good analog panel layout, and a clean interior.

However, birds have nested in the cowling, many fasteners are covered in surfaces rust, and the paint is chipping /peeling in multiple places. The tires are obviously long flat, and the seat material would need replacing.

I have been told that when the original owner sold this airplane, he was paid $70k. I am debating what to offer the current owner (who, I have been told, bought the airplane while he was trying to get his license but never finished.) Obviously, the offer would be contingent on the results of a thorough pre-buy inspection by a mechanic of my choice.

Though I have some experience helping others build RVs and have flown in several different RV-6s, I am admittedly a novice here. What should I especially be looking for? Can anyone list potential pitfalls that I should be cautious about? I'm thinking of making an offer in the 50k range for this airplane (but it's not even officially for sale.)

Again, any advice/tips would be greatly appreciated. RVs are wonderful airplanes and I'd love to have the opportunity to fly one regularly. Thanks in advance for any response.
 
pre-buy

you've already identified the prescient thing here. a competent mechanic and a good looking-over. if the aircraft was not the beneficiary of any "pickling", I'd be very interested in taking a look inside the engine. by the way. . .where is the plane loctated? there are a couple planes I've seen around here (georgia by the sea) that when subjected to outdoor neglect - involving long periods of non-operation - are basically junk after a while.
 
Why not get an A/P, AI, or other qualified person (maybe you're qualified?), to thoroughly check out the engine and prop. Borescope, AD check (yeah, I know Experimentals don't have to comply with AD's), compression check, run the engine, drain the oil, cut open the filter, etc.

In addition, you need to verify whether the avionics work, and if you're at the point of needing a repaint. That'll cost you ~$10k by itself.

In the end, you might dig up a 3 month old Trade a Plane and call sellers of similarly equipped RV-6's to see if their aircraft has sold. If so, try and find out the selling price, so you'll get a feel for what *your* subject aircraft would be worth in flying condition. Start with that price and subtract whatever it'll cost to fix the ramp queen. Then subtract some more, because you're taking the risk that there is more wrong with the ramp queen than you've identified.
 
choices, choices, choices

I?m not sure if your are determined to purchase ?that? airplane but you might consider looking at Trade-A-Plane, barnstormers.com, or controller.com for a different airplane in that price range.

With the 7's,8's,9's,and now 10's on the market I frequently see RV-6's in the price range you mentioned that are flying and up-to-date.

I?d much rather spend the same money and fly this weekend as opposed to paying someone the same amount only to have to work on the thing, and spend more money, before I could fly.

If you really like ?that? plane I would first make a detailed list of everything that would need repaired, or upgraded, and get firm pricing. I would then deduct this from the current market value for a flying plane with the same equipment.

Just my opinion but if you pay what other sixes are going for by the time you have it the way you want it you will have more in it than it may be worth. Or make an offer that you couldn?t pass up and he may just take it. Then you could refurbish and still be in a position to sell it later and come out ok.

Donald
RV-8 in process
N-284DP (Reserved)
 
These are all good points- The sitting airplane is attractive to me in the way that it's laid out; but I have no emotional attachment to it. The key, as you pointed out, is getting this thing for the right price- I know I haven't provided much information, but I can send some pictures if it would help. What I know so far:

IO-360-B-1-8, 180 hp (~ 200 hrs on tach.)
Hartzell 2-blade const speed prop
Sliding canopy
Analog instrumentation (flight and engine instruments)
Narco MK12D TSO Nav/Comm
Northstar GPS-60 Navigator (boat anchor?)
Bendix/King KT-76A xpndr

Built in 1999. Sitting since 2004.

Thoughts?
 
Why??

I am not an RV guru but I have been a businessman for the past 25 years. The question that comes to mind is, "Why would you want to spend that much money on a questionable airplane?" In my opinion, the downside is just too great.

If I were to even consider such a plane, I would go into the situation looking to get a steal. If the story is true, then the owner has absolutely no reason to keep the plane and is paying monthly to keep a plane he/she will never fly. If this isn't a motivated seller then I don't know what is. He/she may be ready to jump at any offer made and has just been too lazy to actively pursue selling it.

If you want to have an A&P (how about the one who built it) look it over then I say fine. But then go in with an extremely lowball bid. I am thinking kit price range -- $25K - $30K. By the time you get it up to par you will still be in $40's or even $50's which isn't a bad price for a flying RV. Starting at $50K and going on up puts you in the price range of a nice flying RV without assumption of the risks.
 
From your description, it didn't sound all that bad. Like everyone else said, you should start with a really close checkout by an A&P you trust. That said, my feeling on stuff like this is why would I want to buy someone else's headache when I make enough of my own as is? If it's really just cosmetic stuff, I say low ball it a bit and get yourself a bargain. If it starts getting into "We're gonna have pull these, and pull those, and the blinkometer is misaligned with the rotor grommets....", or whatever, I'd walk away.
 
Though I am from SC, I know the plane you are talking about. I flew into that airport sometime last year and saw the plane parked while waiting on my passengers. I happened upon the builder of the plane and talked with him for about 30 mins. Make contact with him and ask about the engine problems. It was on a flight when some problems developed. The builder will not fly it with the engine in its present state or right after the incident happened. I decided not to pursue it, but it IS a nice plane, or was is probably a better term. Good luck and at the right price would be a nice plane. I talked with my Tech Counselor about it on the phone while I was looking at it. Took pics with my phone camera and sent them to him. After hearing the engine story, suggested I let it go. Hate to see such good workmanship go to waste though. IF you live in the area, it may be a different story.
 
Everything is negotable.

The fact is it has sat and you can't fly it. It sounds like the proverbial diamond in the rough. $70K is a lot of money. Get it in writing with a pre purchase agreement and sink some money into a thorough check. IF it turns up sour you our out what you spent on the checks. Also Everything is negotiable. The asking price does not sound crazy but than I have not seen it. Buyer beware. G
 
Rv-6

I think that's just it: there really isn't an "asking price". He really doesn't know if the owner is even selling, although based on the circumstances, I bet he jumps at an offer.

Like others have said, I am a business man and have never purchased a flying aircraft. So this is only my opinion....but, start low and then work your way upward. It's much easier to do this than it is to start high and try to negotiate down. Use the old reverse psychology sales trick...."You know, your RV-6 has been sitting out there for years, and it's my understanding that something may be wrong with the engine. While it needs paint, needs some interior work, etc, and even though the tires are flat...I'd like to make you an offer to take this off your hands. It would seem you are paying tie-down rent for no reason, and I bet we can make a deal". Something like that....

In the owners mind, he is hearing all the negative aspects of the plane (which he knows are true), and would be more inclined to accept an offer. The reverse would be "hey, I love your plane and while it needs some work, I know I could get it looking great in no time". If this approach is used, you haven't mentioned any of the main issues with the plane, and the ball is essentially in the owners court (so to speak).

Just my .02-cents. Your mileage may vary. Good luck, whatever route you may take.

Take care,
 
I would put my #$#% on a block that the engine has sustained corosion. I suppose if it stood in a desert with 0% humidity and it doesnt rain then maybe the engine will be OK, otherwise there will be corosion.
 
Engine/Prop overhaul cost?

A followup question-
What would be a conservative estimate for a complete IO-360/Hartzell constant speed prop overhaul? I know it's tough to give a solid number here but a range would be greatly appreciated.
 
rocketeer13 said:
A followup question-
What would be a conservative estimate for a complete IO-360/Hartzell constant speed prop overhaul? I know it's tough to give a solid number here but a range would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

No, I don't personally know the answer to that, but I can tell you coming from a lot of experience of buying and selling classic cars in sometimes ratty condition, that you as a buyer must assume the worst if the seller doesn't want to take the effort to keep it maintained.

In this case, figure a brand new or overhauled engine, an overhaul of the prop, and count the avionics as worthless. Then deduct the cost of a paint job (remember it's a LOT more expensive to paint a plane as a re-do as opposed to brand new).
Then what about the interior and what it would take to make it right?

If you don't have to completely replace or rework all the above, then fine, that's the "risk" the seller takes by not maintaining his aircraft and expecting someone else to assume the potential problems.
If you DO have to rework everything, then you'll have into the aircraft what you might if you had simply bought a "good" one without having had to do all the work that you would with this one.

In my mind, I would put the reasonable price of that aircraft at about $16,000 and maybe up to $18,000 and only if it checks out to be 100% structurally sound. Never forget that in this case especially, you are buying someone elses problems which, after the paperwork is done, all belong to you.

It sounds cruel, I know, but if you have to hang a new engine (overhauls cost almost as much as a new engine), overhaul the prop, change out the interior and most of the avionics, you'll still end up with easily $60,000+ into it.

Do the math by deducting all the anticipated expenses from what would be a reasonable selling price if the aircraft had been "nice", then take 25% off of that to cover any unforeseen problems that may be uncovered, and you should be OK... maybe.

That's how I did it with cars, and I can tell you that I still got hurt as often as I didn't.
 
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