R

rnroutlaw1

I'm New Here
I am a newbie wanting to build the 7 because of its speed and aerobatic capabilities. I won't be doing heavy acrobatics, just the normal positive G stuff. I also want a stable instrument platform for cross country flights. Yeah, I know I want it all!

Question..... Can the control sensitivity be safely/easily "detuned" to some where between the 7 & 9's pitch and roll input characteristics?

Thanks!
 
rnroutlaw1 said:
I am a newbie wanting to build the 7 because of its speed and aerobatic capabilities. I won't be doing heavy acrobatics, just the normal positive G stuff. I also want a stable instrument platform for cross country flights. Yeah, I know I want it all!

Question..... Can the control sensitivity be safely/easily "detuned" to some where between the 7 & 9's pitch and roll input characteristics?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I think you'll find that it's not necessary or even desirable.

Most of the "tuning" is in pilot familiarity and training. Once you are used to the RV, you likely won't want to change anything.

Adding a simple wing leveler would do way more to ease the cross-country workload than changing the control setup.
 
Small changes in aileron and elevator trailing edge shape will have some effect on the control force required for small aileron or elevator deflections. I am told that a smaller radius will increase the amount of stick force required for small deflections. But I would expect that the amount of change in stick force would be fairly small, and the stick forces would almost certainly still be quite a bit lighter than on the RV-9.

A forward CG will tend to increase the stick forces in pitch, and reduce the aircraft response for a given stick movement.

You could also experiment with blunt control surface trailing edges. If the trailing edge is blunt, then increasing the trailing edge thickness will increase the control forces. But, it is possible that this could also change the tendency to flutter, so I wouldn't make such a change unless you are prepared to do a flutter test program, with the consequent risk of loss of the aircraft.

Significant changes in stick forces would require a significant design change (different hinge location, different amount of aerodynamic balance, anti-servo tabs, etc). It is quite likely that several iterations would be required to achieve the desired result. Flutter testing would be required. I recommend you stick very close to Van's design.
 
rnroutlaw1 said:
Can the control sensitivity be safely/easily "detuned" to some where between the 7 & 9's pitch and roll input characteristics?
Click to expand...
Yes. It's called an autopilot. Best of both worlds, man...nimble when you want it to be, rock solid when you want it to be. Some things are too good to be true...the RV is not one of them.
 
I agree

I am currently taking my training in a 7a, in fact I have never flown anything BUT a 7a IFR and I must say hand flying it is a handful, but definatly doable.

A wing leveller and an altitude hold make life a lot easier, although I have barely touched them for training purposes.

I have my checkride booked for Thursday but to be honest I'm on the hairy edge of washing out. I just don't seem to be able to do all the hi speed multi tasking required, keeping ahead of the avionics etc.

This has nothing to do with the airplane though,

Frank
7a
 
frankh said:
A wing leveller and an altitude hold make life a lot easier, although I have barely touched them for training purposes.

all the hi speed multi tasking required, keeping ahead of the avionics etc.

Frank
7a
Click to expand...

Hi Frank.

I'm not picking on you, but this is a problem with much IFR training these days IMHO.

You need to be able to hand fly the airplane of course, but you also need to be able to use the autopilot effectively--it's part of the installed equipment and you should be jsut as familiar with its quirks as with the GPS or VOR/ILS.

"Keeping ahead of the avionics" is one of the essential skills of instrument flying, and will become easier as you build hours using the equipment. As much as you can, you should do all your cross-country flying "in the system" and fly full approaches where ATC workload permits. Even if you don't have a safety pilot, just fly the approach VFR. It's the repetitive sequence that you want to burn into your brain.

Remember that the autopilot is part of the avionics that you're trying to keep ahead of...
 
Thanks James

I appreciate your comments, indeed flying with the autopilot is essential and it makes it MUCH easier, so in the event get thru the CR I will be making a lot more use of it in the future.

My problem is I am just a slow learner at things IFR, I mean I can't navigate across town in the car without getting lost...I used to get turned around in holds, forget were I was etc etc.

Its like there is just a hole in my brain when it comes to doing this stuff.

I have 54 hours of instruction now and am still being put forward for the CR, of course I am a lot more familiar with the approaches at my home field so I got a fighting chance of getting thru.

I will most certainly be filing on every flight from now on no matter what the weather just for the practice.

Cheers

Frank
 
FranK:
Your idea to file everywhere in the future will certainly help to get you immersed in "the system" and will keep you tuned when the need actually arises. In the meantime, I suggest that you NOT use your autopilot, but get used to hand flying with precision. Practice holding closely your assigned altitude and heading. Know where you are at all times, and hand fly every approach. Find a good safety pilot and practice instrument work with regularity. Keep the needles centered, even on visual approaches. You'll find that the "actual instrument" time you can log is pretty limited and the approaches to the bottom far and few between. On the other hand, better to be completely comfortable and confident when the need arises. Most important, don't be afraid to slow your plane down to flap speed when you get near your destination - if you're lining up at anything near RV cruise speeds, the skill level required to stay ahead of the airplane is approaching Lear territory.
Have fun, fly safe. You've about to increase the usefulness of your RV by about 10 fold.
Terrry
 
frankh said:
My problem is I am just a slow learner at things IFR, I mean I can't navigate across town in the car without getting lost...I used to get turned around in holds, forget were I was etc etc.

Its like there is just a hole in my brain when it comes to doing this stuff.

Cheers

Frank
Click to expand...

Frank, what you're describing is not uncommon. You can master this by "brute force."

I would recommend getting a decent flight simulator like this one . For the cost of a single hour in the RV you can do all the approaches you want. You can't log it, but it still helps your situational awareness.

The actual task of flying the airplane isn't all that realistic on your PC, but the mental tasks of managing an approach are identical. You can even fly the actual approaches to your local airports, or "dry run" a trip you want to make in real time.
 
I agree with James on the simulator.

I too had a hard time getting my IFR rating. I took the training in my RV-6A. Something about an old dog and new tricks, or old geezerhood had just started settling in. Anyway, it took me a while.

If I can do it, so can you. Toughest thing I guess I ever did, but what a difference it makes. I file all the time, and if we know where we are going I do some approaches on the ASA Instrument Pilot Trainer on the computer before we go. Really does help with familiarization ande SA before actually get there.

By all means hand fly until you are comfortable. However, after I got my IR, I put a 2 axis TruTrak in the RV. We use it a lot. I generally hand fly the aproaches even though it is coupled to the GX60. However I practice both ways.

Hang in. You will really enjoy the freedom. We don't do hard IFR and it is amazing how much more we are able to use the plane. Its nice not to have to set around fretting about whether to go or not. If it is below my personal minimums, we just stay home or wait until it gets better.

Good Luck!!!!
Wes Hays
 
Is the 9 that much different?

rnroutlaw1 said:
I am a newbie wanting to build the 7 because of its speed and aerobatic capabilities. I won't be doing heavy acrobatics, just the normal positive G stuff. I also want a stable instrument platform for cross country flights. Yeah, I know I want it all!

Question..... Can the control sensitivity be safely/easily "detuned" to some where between the 7 & 9's pitch and roll input characteristics?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Admittedly, I've only flown one 9, but I don't recall there being that much difference in control sensitivity. Yes, it was somewhat less responsive in roll, but the stick force was still so low that -- just like my 6A -- it was more simple pressure than actual stick movement. It was my first RV flight and the main thing I remember was that I had a hard time keeping it from climbing at 1000 fpm any time I took my eyes off the VSI. The stick force was so low that, after flying nothing but Pipers and Cessnas, it didn't even register (you get over that very quickly, by the way).

High stick force is not the same as stability. You could make the stick force on a 7 be high if you shortened the bellcranks. All you would get would be a plane that's hard work to fly. It would still have neutral roll stability and short wings. It would definately not be a better IFR platform.
 
Wes Hays said:
I agree with James on the simulator.

I too had a hard time getting my IFR rating. I took the training in my RV-6A. Something about an old dog and new tricks, or old geezerhood had just started settling in. Anyway, it took me a while.

If I can do it, so can you. Toughest thing I guess I ever did, but what a difference it makes. I file all the time, and if we know where we are going I do some approaches on the ASA Instrument Pilot Trainer on the computer before we go. Really does help with familiarization ande SA before actually get there.

By all means hand fly until you are comfortable. However, after I got my IR, I put a 2 axis TruTrak in the RV. We use it a lot. I generally hand fly the aproaches even though it is coupled to the GX60. However I practice both ways.

Hang in. You will really enjoy the freedom. We don't do hard IFR and it is amazing how much more we are able to use the plane. Its nice not to have to set around fretting about whether to go or not. If it is below my personal minimums, we just stay home or wait until it gets better.

Good Luck!!!!
Wes Hays
Click to expand...


Thanks for the encouragement Wes...Yes alarming how fast old geezerhood sets in, I've never done anything that I havent picked on right away.

CR is still on for Thursday, Hopefully going to fly all the local appraoches one last time and as long as I don't make any boneheaders I think I might make it..

Fank
 
You must log in or register to reply here.