[grover]

this from faa:


Public Opens Up on the ADIZ

Jan. 20 ? On Wednesday, a panel of government representatives listened to public comments on the FAA?s proposal to make the Washington D.C. Air Defense Identification Zone and Flight Restricted Area permanent features of the nation?s airspace. The proposed rules are intended to help the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Defense protect national assets in the National Capital region. Public presentations made in response to the notice of proposed rulemaking were unanimously against the proposal.

 

[rv8ch]

Adiz

Public presentations made in response to the notice of proposed rulemaking were unanimously against the proposal.

It will be interesting to see how this goes. The people have spoken - will the representatives of the people listen?

 

[rzbill]

Haven't listened yet, have they...

Here's an image of my weekend difficulty with TFR's Du Jour.

Detour

 

[jdmunzell]

Politicians....

We're talking about politicians here. What makes anybody think that they will listen to anybody...

Jeff
-8 wings
under the ADIZ

 

[bullojm1]

Here's an image of my weekend difficulty with TFR's Du Jour.

Detour

Bill,

Not to sound like a wise guy, but why not get on the radio with ATC and cut through the ADIZ or the TFR? Contrary to popular belief, they are not impenetrable fortresses (unless you don't have a transponder!).

 

[aadamson]

Actually - they sorta are

Bill,

Not to sound like a wise guy, but why not get on the radio with ATC and cut through the ADIZ or the TFR? Contrary to popular belief, they are not impenetrable fortresses (unless you don't have a transponder!).

Don't know if you've flown much in the DC area, but the Washinton ADIZ is just about impossible to get into, unless you are on an IFR flight plan. Yes it can be done, but it's really not easy. As for the TFR up north of there this weekend, it's a Presidential one. That means that the inner ring will have all traffic grounded and the outter ring may as well.

When they have done that in ATL, they shut down *everything* except for the commercial airport.

If you can't legally fly IFR, then you won't be able to get any "clearance" both in and around DC and the Pres TFR - this weekend at least...

I wish it were different, but I've tried to go into the Wash ADIZ VFR and it wasn't easy, I finally just gave up and filed. Pres TFR's are a *whole nother story tho*.

 

[rzbill]

Not impassable (impossible?)

It is quite true that a VFR ADIZ flight plan can help. I have been copilot on a couple of trips through. Even with the permissions, we were skirted around, just inside the perimeter, so it saved little. I am still not comfortable enough yet to operate on my own inside the ADIZ "IFR" world as a VFR guest and of course the kit construction is not doing anything to help me gain more flight time and experience to overcome the fear.

Fortunately, it looks like I will be flying with a pilot that is already practiced at it this weekend. I'll "get it" soon enough....

 

[bullojm1]

Don't know if you've flown much in the DC area, but the Washinton ADIZ is just about impossible to get into, unless you are on an IFR flight plan. Yes it can be done, but it's really not easy. As for the TFR up north of there this weekend, it's a Presidential one. That means that the inner ring will have all traffic grounded and the outter ring may as well.

When they have done that in ATL, they shut down *everything* except for the commercial airport.

If you can't legally fly IFR, then you won't be able to get any "clearance" both in and around DC and the Pres TFR - this weekend at least...

I wish it were different, but I've tried to go into the Wash ADIZ VFR and it wasn't easy, I finally just gave up and filed. Pres TFR's are a *whole nother story tho*.

I just read through the NOTAM for the presidential TFR and saw "LIMITED TO AIRCRAFT ARRIVING OR DEPARTING LOCAL AIRFIELDS AND ATC MAY AUTHORIZE TRANSIT", which I didn't see before.

Now, with the DC ADIZ, my club's 172 is based in the ADIZ, plus I did my initial flight training with the ADIZ, so I am quite familiar with it. In fact, I am so used to it that it isn't so bad (said ain't it?). Saying that, I have never needed to transit the ADIZ. I have done a number of ingress and egress's through the ADIZ, even a couple sightseeing trips never leaving the ADIZ. From reading the ADIZ NOTAM, I don't see anything preventing it. Am I missing something?

 

[Capflyer]

Yes It Can Be Done

Here is a guide for those of you that need to go through the Washington DC ADIZ:

First, call the Leesburg FSS directly to file your ADIZ flight plan. They file these plans all day long and know exactly what you need, 866-225-7410.

When you talk to them, be sure you tell them you are filing an ADIZ flight plan. You will need the usual stuff for filing flight plans and the time en-route is the time you will be in the ADIZ. You will need the entry point and the exit point. Generally from the N & W we use Westminster (EMI-VOR), Frederick (FDK-VOR), or Martinsburg (MRB-VOR).

If you will be not starting your flight inside of the ADIZ, contact Potomac Approach on 126.75 from the air. Use this wording:

"N***** Westminster VOR, ADIZ to *****"

On a nice day the frequency will be very busy, call them when you are still 10nm from the ADIZ. If you come in over FDK, be sure you are at least 3000' since the radio coverage to Potomac is not very good and they will also not see your squak.

The controller will come back and say something like:

"N****, squak ****, remain clear of the ADIZ". Don't panic here, just put in the code and they will call you back when he sees you.

After a few moments, the controller will come back and say,

"N****, code observed, proceed on course to *****, remain clear of Bravo, call when you are clear of the ADIZ"

Respond as you would any controller by repeating the controllers instructions.

Be sure that when you exit the ADIZ that you call the controller back and let them know that your are "clear of the ADIZ".

Now, very important, the controller will NOT clear you into the ADIZ. No clearance is required so don't expect them to say that. The only requirements are that you have a ADIZ flight plan on file, you have a mode C transponder, are in radar contact, and in radio contact.

Guys, I know for those of you that are not familiar with the ADIZ that it can seem a real bitch but it isn't that complicated. If you're not sure, monitor the 126.75 from outside and listen to how pilots are using the freq and what they say.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[rickrv8]

Adiz

Mike,

I don't think you're missing a thing. I have my RV-8 based at HEF inside the ADIZ and also am quite familiar with the procedures. I've filed both VFR and IFR and have rarely had an issue over the last few years. In fact, the only hassle I've ever had was after filing an ADIZ entry with the Burlington, VT FSS from CSN (VOR) to HEF. I get down to CSN and Potomac tells me they don't have my flight plan. After they have me hold for about two minutes they come back and give me a code and let me in. When I get home later that day I have a telephone message from the briefer at Burlington telling me that he can't enter a flight plan originating from a VOR and consequently can't file my plan. This was obviously just a case where an unfamiliar briefer didn't know the rules. But thankfully the guy at Potomac used some common sense and got me in with minimal trouble. He could have simply sent me away and told me to air file with Leesburg.

I've also filed to transit through the ADIZ as oppossed to just getting in and out. Again, I've had no problem. As long as they know what you're doing and you don't do something stupid you won't have any problems.

Although I think the whole thing is a big joke it really isn't the big hassle everyone makes it out to be. The hassle is that you have to deal with it in the first place. The guys at Potomac are by and large extremely helpful. With any luck we'll see some modifications to the thing but I'm not holding my breath.

Rick McBride

 

[rv8ch]

Freedom

...Now, with the DC ADIZ, my club's 172 is based in the ADIZ, plus I did my initial flight training with the ADIZ, so I am quite familiar with it. In fact, I am so used to it that it isn't so bad ...

Just a couple of quotes that I thought were appropriate...

Freedom has a thousand charms to show,
That slaves, howe'er contented, never know.
-William Cowper

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
-Goethe

It's simply wonderful to get up in the morning, quick pre-flight, and go fly. Not talking to a soul. Once you've tasted that kind of freedom...

 

[tomcostanza]

The only requirements are that you have a ADIZ flight plan on file,...

Mike,
Is there anything special about an "ADIZ flight plan"? Or is it just a VFR flight plan through the ADIZ? (and can I bet my license on your advice )

Thanks for the help,
Tom

Rv-7A
Fuse

 

[[email protected]]

Dont go around

I hate these things too. Thanks you for the heads up, I always assume Camp David is live but would never have thought Gettysburg would have been under a TFR and might have tripped up on this one. By the way you do not need to go around it, just pick your time carefully as the 30 mile TFR is only in affect from 6:50 ? 7:55 Sat morning and 11:45 ? 12:50 Sat noon on the 27th.

 

[bullojm1]

Tom,

Don't bet your license on this advice, but this is what I was taught, understand and practice weekly. Just to be safe, I would call up a FSS - they will explain the procedures to you.

To file a flight plan, you tell the FSS exactly what you would tell them to file a VFR flight plan. Only difference is you are filing an "D.C. ADIZ Flight Plan", not "VFR Flight Plan". Also there are specific entry/exit points that you must have on your flight plan. I believe that they are in the NOTAM - if not, AOPA has them online. AOPA Also has a ADIZ Checklist that is complete.

 

[bullojm1]

It's simply wonderful to get up in the morning, quick pre-flight, and go fly. Not talking to a soul. Once you've tasted that kind of freedom...

I couldn't agree with you more. However, living in Baltimore, I have to either drive 50 minutes to the closest airport outside of the ADIZ (KDMW) or 25 minutes to the closest airport to me (KMTN) in the ADIZ, which is class D on top of being in the ADIZ. It isn't as nice as making a simple unicom call when I want to go, but I am with a great club, with great plane availability and a great price ($70/tach hour for a IFR/GPS '172) - So I am stuck in the ADIZ with a great plane for now. When my RV gets done, I will have to think about where its home should be - specifically, how Phase I will be handled in the ADIZ. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

[mgomez]

It's actually an IFR flight plan

Mike,
Is there anything special about an "ADIZ flight plan"? Or is it just a VFR flight plan through the ADIZ?

When you file an ADIZ flight plan, it goes in as an IFR flight plan with "DC ADIZ VFR" or some such in the comments section.

It's a pain in the butt, yes, but you can still fly here (Manassas, KHEF). The recent change allowing us to file via DUATS made a big difference. I don't know if it will stop terrorists, but at least it makes politicians feel like they're doing something.

 

[Capflyer]

Talk to Leesburg FSS

Please don't bet on anything I or anyone else says. I only speak from my experience of flying the ADIZ since it started. However, trust me on this point, only speak with Leesburg FSS to file your ADIZ flight plan especially if you are new to it. They know exactly how to file your plan and can work with you on the entry/exit points. It is correct that these points are not VORs but if you tell them the VOR they know what fix to enter for you.

Leesburg FSS phone number is 866-225-7410.

As noted in another post, the ADIZ flight plan is basically an IFR flight plan but the difference in filing it more simulates a VFR plan. You do not need to be instrument rated to file it.

I spoke to the Baltimore FSDO last week about Phase 1 in the ADIZ. They said it should be no problem to base inside the ADIZ but should expect that I will need to have my area outside of it and could transit to get to and from there.

Hope this helps.
Mike

 

[tomcostanza]

Thanks

Thanks to all in general, and to Mike Bullock and Mike Regen in particular.

Tom Costanza
RV-7A Fuse

He who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither freedom nor security. -Benjamin Franklin

 

[rickrv8]

Flight Test in ADIZ

I did my all test flights in and out of the ADIZ at HEF. My first flight was in HEF's class D. I did a 30 minute flight in the pattern with a 1234 transponder code. I did the flight early on a Sunday morning when they weren't busy and stayed in contact with the tower the entire time. They allowed me to fly to the top of the class D and fly an extended pattern. It worked out fine. After that I flew straight in and out of the ADIZ and did my airport work (touch and goes...) at Culpepper which is outside the ADIZ. The test area the FAA gave me was outside of the ADIZ with the exception of the corridor to and from HEF.

We have an 8A at the field that recently made it's first flight. The owner was concerned that the class D would not allow him adequate altitude. He talked to Potomac prior to the test flight and they arranged for him to fly in a sector of the class B overlying HEF's class D. Apparently everything went okay. It seems like a lot of effort and a potential distraction on the first flight having to talk to multiple controllers but it seemed to work out okay. I would think you could easily work out a similar arrangement if you're test flight is out of one of the uncontrolled fields. As I had mentioned before, the guys at Potomac Approach for the most part are very helpful. It's only the Homeland Security knucklheads who don't have a clue.

Rick McBride

 

[Jack Fromm]

When my RV gets done, I will have to think about where its home should be - specifically, how Phase I will be handled in the ADIZ. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Mike,

I did my Phase I out of MTN. And my inspection was done by a guy from the Baltimore FSDO. He gave me basically the entire Eastern Shore and, since you need to depart the ADIZ by the most direct route, you just maintain runway heading to transition across the bay. That's the downside---an overwater flight with a new airplane.

For my first few flights, I just arranged with the tower to climb to 2,000 and fly a racetrack pattern inside the Class D. Then when I felt confident that nothing was going to fall off and that the engine was not going to seize, I squawked 1205 and headed across the water. The good thing is that with an RV, you can easily reach 2,300 feet before crossing the western shore.

Staying in the MTN pattern or egressing were no problem. It was coming back into the ADIZ where it got interesting. That was 2 years ago and I think things work a little more smoothly now, but back then it was a real pain because you never knew what frequency Potomac was using (even FSS couldn't tell you). And then there were the times when they claimed they weren't picking up my transponder (which would mean I could have been stranded on the Eastern Shore). I suspect they were just busy at the time but didn't want to tell me that, so they said they couldn't see my squawk. Then, miraculously, after several minutes of circling, they could see it again. So when a hangar opened up at DMW, I was outta there.

 

[TSwezey]

I will be flying up to No. Va in July and I wondering if Dulles was an option or should I fly into another airport?

 

[Capflyer]

It all depends on where your ultimate destination is. I'm assuming if you picked Dulles it's because it is close. You will probably be better off in that case flying into Leesburg. If you want to be North instead of West of DC, Gaithersburg would be your best bet.