cbennet1

Well Known Member
OK, so I got a lot of good feedback re: my question on the "necessity" of an A/P for light IMC/cross country. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=56701

So now the next question, what are the installation options for a 2 axis A/P on a flying airplane? My assumption is that it is major surgery. A search on this forum yielded inconclusive results. [due to my inept search skills, no doubt :) ]

Thanks!
 
It depends

OK, so I got a lot of good feedback re: my question on the "necessity" of an A/P for light IMC/cross country. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=56701

So now the next question, what are the installation options for a 2 axis A/P on a flying airplane? My assumption is that it is major surgery. A search on this forum yielded inconclusive results. [due to my inept search skills, no doubt :) ]

Thanks!

There are two major vendors and a few minor ones for experimental autopilots.

Trio, TruTrak are the two majors. Dynon, MGL and other EFIS vendors also have autopilot implementations.

I can only talk about Trio from experience.

It's not "major" surgery to add an autopilot to an existing RV, IMHO

I first installed a Navaid for horizontal nav, then later added the pitch servo (Trio Gold) hooked to my MGL Odyssey. I later replaced the Navaid with a Trio Pro Pilot and hooked the pitch servo to the Pro Pilot.

I mounted my roll servo on the right wingtip rib with a suitable reinforcement structure and used a fairly long push rod to reach the bell crank. Total install time including wiring was about four hours. When it came time to replace the Navaid servo, Trio shipped me one that was a drop in replacement.

The pitch servo took a bit longer, only because of the cramped quarters you have to work in. Installing the mount and servo took about 8 hours (a full day), which included pulling the cables and troubleshooting, etc.

So, You could probably do the entire install in a weekend with time to spare.

YMMV.
 
Not having built an RV (YET!), I'm particularly curious about the wiring from wing servo to panel. How did you accomplish this?

There are two major vendors and a few minor ones for experimental autopilots.

Trio, TruTrak are the two majors. Dynon, MGL and other EFIS vendors also have autopilot implementations.

I can only talk about Trio from experience.

It's not "major" surgery to add an autopilot to an existing RV, IMHO

I first installed a Navaid for horizontal nav, then later added the pitch servo (Trio Gold) hooked to my MGL Odyssey. I later replaced the Navaid with a Trio Pro Pilot and hooked the pitch servo to the Pro Pilot.

I mounted my roll servo on the right wingtip rib with a suitable reinforcement structure and used a fairly long push rod to reach the bell crank. Total install time including wiring was about four hours. When it came time to replace the Navaid servo, Trio shipped me one that was a drop in replacement.

The pitch servo took a bit longer, only because of the cramped quarters you have to work in. Installing the mount and servo took about 8 hours (a full day), which included pulling the cables and troubleshooting, etc.

So, You could probably do the entire install in a weekend with time to spare.

YMMV.
 
The RV-6 puts the roll servo under the seat, so a retrofit isn't as bad as the 7. Shouldn't be too hard, just some fun crawling around in the back to install the pitch servo.
 
Definitely not major surgery Craig , and Joe's description is pretty good. If you're going to add both pitch and roll, do it at the same time. For the Tru Trak stuff, (common mounting with several others) pull out the seats and seat pans, and the rear baggage bulkhead. Replace the pitch bellcrank mounts - this requires some drilling riveting/bolting. Roll servo can go under th pilot's seat - a little tight, but not hard. Then run a cable from each up to the panel. Depending on how accessible your panel is, wiring and mounting th head can be a pain, or a breeze.

if you have worked on planes like these, it is an easy weekend task. if you are new to the techniques and practices, maybe a couple of weeks. The biggest time-sink is discovering other stuff you want to do along the way. "gee, I really should clean up and paint the floor panels". Or "Hmm - a couple of stripped nut-plates, maybe I should fix them". Or the biggest "Boy, this wiring behind the panel sure is a mess, maybe I should clean it up...."

Paul
 
The RV-6 puts the roll servo under the seat, so a retrofit isn't as bad as the 7. Shouldn't be too hard, just some fun crawling around in the back to install the pitch servo.

Putting the roll servo at the wingtip as Joe suggested avoids some issues that can arise with having the servo connect to the control column. Here are some notes and photos:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/navaid.html

Enjoy your new autopilot! :)
 
Installed mine after flying for a year and painting - no problem

Installed mine after flying for a year and painting - no problem. RV-6A Tru Trak Pictorial Pilot and Altrac altitude hold.

Bob Axsom
 
How about running the wires from the wingtip to the fuse?

In the case of my "6", I had Van's flexible conduit running from the tip back to the fuselage. My servo was also added later, and tip mounted on the last rib. Trio was installed for roll, and TruTrack for pitch. Just wanted to support both companies I guess. :) Both were installed after airframe was complete.

In the case of the "6" wing, there are lightning holes in each rib. Wiring was either a small diameter 3 or 5 wire, all in one. I just don't remember which. If pulled through an existing lightning hole, the wires would need protection. You could use Van's flexible conduit, or some available from auto part stores.
Various ribs can be reached from the one access panel in the 6, as well through the tip to secure the conduit with wire ties.

A new hole could be drilled from the fuse to the wing root structure, or you could bring the conduit through the large lightning hole in which the aileron push rod runs through. Just secure everything well, when in operating push rod areas.

And speaking of push rods....... since I have a long pushrod from the tip servo to the aileron bellcrank, I have a piece of plexiglass screwed to the next to the last outboard rib with a slot for the push rod to go through. This will hold the pushrod if any connection was to seperate...... which will prevent the pushrod from jamming against a rib. It's plexi, so that I can see through the rib for inspections.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
I concur with Sam.......

Putting the roll servo at the wingtip as Joe suggested avoids some issues that can arise with having the servo connect to the control column. Here are some notes and photos:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/navaid.html

Enjoy your new autopilot! :)

I intially mounted my TT roll servo under the seat as they show, but moved it out to the last rib bay of the left wing. It was very easy to mount. I was told by my building mentor that the way it connects to the controls under the seat, that there would always be a little pitch seeking, when the roll servo would make an adjustment as it was pushing at a slight angle. Works great in the tip, who knows?
 
I put a servo in long after my -6 was flying in the left wing next to the aileron bellcrank. It was a bit of a pain to work in there but I managed to get it done. From a mechanical standpoint this the best place to put the servo on the -6.
 
EFIS/GPS Integration

Craig,

Just a ?Heads Up:? Your autopilot choice should take into account what systems you may want the autopilot to communicate with (EFIS, GPS, Nav/Com, etc.). Some talk with each other; some don?t. Of course, if you plan an independent autopilot installation (no course or vertical guidance from, say, an EFIS/GPS system), then you don?t need to be concerned about separate systems integration, at least for now.

As others have said, the physical installation isn?t a huge challenge, but electronic integration may be an issue, depending on your requirements.

Good Luck,

Bill Palmer :)
 
Bill,

A very good point. I have a 496 that I would expect to use in the airplane and/or a GX50/50 GPS.

Craig,

Just a ?Heads Up:? Your autopilot choice should take into account what systems you may want the autopilot to communicate with (EFIS, GPS, Nav/Com, etc.). Some talk with each other; some don?t. Of course, if you plan an independent autopilot installation (no course or vertical guidance from, say, an EFIS/GPS system), then you don?t need to be concerned about separate systems integration, at least for now.

As others have said, the physical installation isn?t a huge challenge, but electronic integration may be an issue, depending on your requirements.

Good Luck,

Bill Palmer :)
 
Think ahead

Not having built an RV (YET!), I'm particularly curious about the wiring from wing servo to panel. How did you accomplish this?

When I built the wings I put in some conduit for the lights, nav antenna , etc.
I used a pull string to pull the wiring, then when done, left the string in the conduit (old telecomm trick).

Pulling the new wires was simple. Attach wires (and another string) to the pull string, pull the whole bunch, detach the wires and pull the original string back through for the next time. :)

After that, the wires simply follow the same route under the floor panels and up the sides to the panel.

Hope this helps.
JP
 
dynon no problem

I did a Dynon dual axis with the AP74 control head and it was as painless as I'd hoped. They have detailed plan views of the recomended installs (under the pass seat for the 6) and I used their location which worked out fine. If you have a Dynon EFIS you can't go wrong with their AP.
 
Craig,

I put in two Dynon servos in my bought-flying 6, having not built an RV. It was part of my panel upgrade, so Paul's caveat on mission creep is a good one. That creep can be very good, since you get stuff done (and learn a lot), but it can be time consuming, so just plan your down time and leave some room on the back so you don't get rushed...been there!

From all I've read, the various mfgr servo installs are similar, and I went with the Dynon recommended RV-6 roll servo location, under the seat (and either seat is OK). Its interesting to hear the mechanical advantage issues of the wing install, but it makes sense in thinking about it. However, being my first install, and being an early adopter of the Dynon AP, I went with the recommended method (they had pictures for me to follow by doing so! :))

Couple thoughts from the new-to-this perspective that I had during the project:

The pitch servo was straight-forward, just took a little study on the diagrams to figure out where to drill the bellcrank, and a little finesse (and hucky-pucky) to get the washers to stay in place as the bolts were placed through the bellcrank.

I was hesitant to drill out the 3 fuselage rivets to mount the pitch servo bracket, so I tried riveting it only through the side part of the brace. It was not secure enough at all, so I had to remove the bracket, which ruined it, so had to copy and re-fab the bracket, and then I riveted it both on the bottom (through the fuse) and on through the side of the bracket. Worked well, just took longer because I tried a "shortcut". So don't let drilling out rivets put you off, it turned out to be easy.

Safety wiring the three bolts on the pitch servo bracket was a bit tricky for this neophyte, and I did it partially backwards the first time. A three-fer safety wire job took me a little throught to get right, but it worked out, and was an interesting learning event.

I put the roll servo in the outer bay below the left seat. Worked well, but also entailed some drilling through the fuselage for the bracket. A bit tight in there, but pretty workable. You do want to make sure to use the correct placement, per the instructions, so you have the proper clearance from the aileron push tube throughout the full range of control stick movement.

The wiring for the pitch servo has to move from behind the baggage wall, under the cargo floor, under the seat floor, then past the spar to the panel. I had my cargo floor up for the panel upgrade (mission creep), so that part of the wiring was easy. Some builders put in a conduit and pull strings in there to make that easy...mine did not.

To get past the spar, I took both the pitch servo and roll servo wires up the inside of the side brace above the spar. That meant drilling out a few rivets and pulling off the cover of that side brace, but it was actually pretty easy.

If you go with a wing-mount for your roll servo, you can still take the wires from the wing root, under the seat, and up that side brace channel as well. If your builder put in wing conduits with pull strings, it'll make getting the wires to the wing root and cockpit easier.

One other issue that popped up for me having used the under-seat location was the impact on my belly whip antenna locations. For ease of install, I placed one whip in the next bay inboard from the roll servo, and the other in the mirror location. Turns out they may be a bit close together, so my Comm 2 or my APRS make some noise on my comm 1. So take a look at you antenna locations or future locations, as it may impact you rdecision to go with the floor bay or the wing.

The more experienced guys will likely have some more detailed thoughts and good methodology, but those are just some things I remember about the project, which was pretty fun and gratifying. And my experience was strictly Dynon gear. Other mfgrs will have other requirements and gotchas.

Sounds like a lot, but it was not too bad. I was more along the couple week timeframe, as I'm still learning all the building/tinkering techniques that Paul was talking about, and I just took little bites out of the elephant as I went along (and got help from builders whenever I could). If you give yourself time to do it with no pressure, it'll be enjoyable.

Depending on your choice of equipment, if you want to see pics of any parts of my project, happy to send them along, if it'll help.

Have fun!!

Cheers,
Bob
 
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