A

Aviator B

I'm New Here
Gents-
I am an A&P working on an RV-6 annual for a customer. He has a Hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF propeller on a Lycoming O-360 AIA.

A 100 hour repetative AD (2009-22-03 which superseeded 2006-18-15) requiring an eddy current of the front half of the blade hub is applicable. It has been over 200 hours since an eddy current was performed (owner was curious and chose to conduct this once.)

The owner does not conduct aerobatics. He tells me that everbody who performs normal flight disregards this AD and that since he does not conduct aerobatics, it is not really applicable to this propeller.

Is this a community norm? I was just curious if anyone else has heard of this.
My gut feeling is that this AD is required and the owner will need to get the AD C/W prior to signing the propellor off for an annual.
Thanks in advance!
 
Without going into a debate on AD applicability to homebuilts, you as an A&P need to cover your butt and the safest way to do that is to not sign it off unless the AD has been complied with.
 
Tell me again what is the definition of an AD? Sounds to me like the tail wants to wag the dog. :cool:

Bevan
 
I'm not an A&P (yet) but I'm going to a highly regarded Part 147 school. We've were discussing Annuals / Logbooks just today. My instructor has been doing this for 40 years and I know what he would say.

"Sign the log book as shown in Part 43.11 paragraph (a) sub-paragraph (5) and provide the owner with a letter listing the discrepancies."

If the owner chooses not to comply with the AD and fly, that's his business. If he can get someone else to sign off compliance with the AD (and any other discrepancies that you list in the letter) then he is 100% airworthy when the last discrepancy is signed off.

Now whether or not AD's are Mandatory on Experimentals.....that another whole can of worms.
 
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Aviator B said:
Gents-
I am an A&P working on an RV-6 annual for a customer. He has a Hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF propeller on a Lycoming O-360 AIA.

A 100 hour repetative AD (2009-22-03 which superseeded 2006-18-15) requiring an eddy current of the front half of the blade hub is applicable. It has been over 200 hours since an eddy current was performed (owner was curious and chose to conduct this once.)

The owner does not conduct aerobatics. He tells me that everbody who performs normal flight disregards this AD and that since he does not conduct aerobatics, it is not really applicable to this propeller.

Is this a community norm? I was just curious if anyone else has heard of this.
My gut feeling is that this AD is required and the owner will need to get the AD C/W prior to signing the propellor off for an annual.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Hi,

Please check prop serial number, I have a similar prop but my serial number has the suffix B. If don't I will comply with the AD.

"In addition, that AD allows installation of an improved design propeller hub (suffix SN ''A'' or ''B'') as terminating
action to the repetitive ECI"

Just my two cents;)
 
Rick_A said:
"Sign the log book as shown in Part 43.11 paragraph (a) sub-paragraph (5) and provide the owner with a letter listing the discrepancies."
Click to expand...

Which doesn't help the owner any if he is looking for the mechanic to deem the airplane airworthy. But there are plenty of mechanics out there that sign off stuff that shouldn't be signed off. Like my neighbor's C150 that had a washing machine hose (I'm not kidding) for a fuel line and it passed the annual inspections for a lot of years by a not-so-particular IA.
 
More thoughts ...

Bob, I was thinking about this some more. Since an Experimental only requires an A&P to sign off the Inspection, can the owner sign off the discrepancies (which would include the AD) ?

I'm in the middle of doing the ECI Cylinder AD on my plane and even though I am a Repairman for my plane, I'll sign off the AD as the owner. The only time I need note that I am a Repairman in the Log Book, is when I sign the Annual Condition Inspection.
 
Prop hub

I now have one of those hubs off my Decathlon sitting on a shelf. Luckily, I brought the new "B" hub when Hartzell was selling them for half price. The "A" mod didn't stop the AD because some of them cracked, also. The AD applies to any prop that was ever on an aerobatic plane. My buddy has a 172 on floats with the exact same non-letter hub that the AD doesn't apply. I think the FAA just want to make sure we never run out of paperweights ;-)
 
Rick_A said:
Bob, I was thinking about this some more. Since an Experimental only requires an A&P to sign off the Inspection, can the owner sign off the discrepancies (which would include the AD) ?

I'm in the middle of doing the ECI Cylinder AD on my plane and even though I am a Repairman for my plane, I'll sign off the AD as the owner. The only time I need note that I am a Repairman in the Log Book, is when I sign the Annual Condition Inspection.
Click to expand...

Sure the owner can do repairs. But an A&P has to sign the logbook stating the determination of airworthiness. If an A&P does the inspection, and finds the aircraft unairworthy, the owner can fix the discrepancies but that doesn't change the fact he signed it off as unairworthy, even if all the discrepancies are addressed. If they have the repairman's certificate, they can also sign it off as airworthy
 
rocketbob said:
Sure the owner can do repairs. But an A&P has to sign the logbook stating the determination of airworthiness. If an A&P does the inspection, and finds the aircraft unairworthy, the owner can fix the discrepancies but that doesn't change the fact he signed it off as unairworthy, even if all the discrepancies are addressed. If they have the repairman's certificate, they can also sign it off as airworthy
Click to expand...

On an EXPERIMENTAL airplane, the A&P or REPAIRMAN is not determining airworthiness but is determining if the aircraft is in a Condition for SAFE Operation. Look at the Operating Limitations for the verbiage.
 
"Please check prop serial number, I have a similar prop but my serial number has the suffix B. If don't I will comply with the AD."
It does not have the suffix A or B in the serial number

"Now whether or not AD's are Mandatory on Experimentals.....that another whole can of worms."
What exactly is the debate about AD compliance on experimentals? Do experimental "appliances" require compliance with ADs?

Thanks
 
RV6_flyer said:
On an EXPERIMENTAL airplane, the A&P or REPAIRMAN is not determining airworthiness but is determining if the aircraft is in a Condition for SAFE Operation. Look at the Operating Limitations for the verbiage.
Click to expand...

Sure I understand and know the wording difference, and write my own condition inspections like this... I don't sign my own logbooks with my A&P but as the repairman. But IMO "airworthy" and "condition for safe operation" are synonymous since either are performed to the scope and detail of 43.3/D.
 
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Does any one know the suffix "A" or "B" is for the prop S/N or the hub itself ?
The only S/N I can find in my paper work refers to "***'y Ser No" which is CH44062B
Does this mean that I have suffix "B"

Thanks in advance
 
Aviator B said:
...What exactly is the debate about AD compliance on experimentals? Do experimental "appliances" require compliance with ADs?...
Click to expand...

That is exactly the debate. Some say yes; some (including the EAA) say no; and the FAA says yes and no, depending on which publication or FSDO you see. Many posts on this subject. Do a search, read for hours, make your own decision.
 
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Bavafa said:
Does any one know the suffix "A" or "B" is for the prop S/N or the hub itself ?
The only S/N I can find in my paper work refers to "***'y Ser No" which is CH44062B
Does this mean that I have suffix "B"
Click to expand...

The numbers for a Hartzell prop are the hub model, the blade design, and hub and blade serial numbers. "CH44062B" is a hub serial number. You have a "B" hub.

--Paul
 
Garage Guy said:
The numbers for a Hartzell prop are the hub model, the blade design, and hub and blade serial numbers. "CH44062B" is a hub serial number. You have a "B" hub.

--Paul
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul, I had suspected that but needed to confirm. A call to Harzell also confirmed which is a huge load off.
 
AD confusion

Flying EMT said:
The AD applies to any prop that was ever on an aerobatic plane. My buddy has a 172 on floats with the exact same non-letter hub that the AD doesn't apply. I think the FAA just want to make sure we never run out of paperweights ;-)
Click to expand...

2001-23-08 is for aerobatic and a few other aircraft, but....

2009-23-03 is the most recent version for everything else, including the 172 with the engine swap.

Both these ADs are available on Hartzellprop.com

best
 
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