txaviator

txaviator

Well Known Member
I missed the 10:00 news last night here in DFW, but my dad was watching it. There was a crash landing of an unpainted RV (RV-7 I believe, with a slider) at Hicks Field (T67) over the weekend. Thank goodness the pilot was OK (according to the news), but my dad said the plane was laying on it's belly in some weeds.

Does someone have any further details? For the non-DFW-based forum members, this is one of our locals airports with A TON of RV's based at it. Jay Pratt's RV Central is also located there, along with Avery Tools, etc.

Any further details?

Thanks.
 
Newspaper info...

Here's the article from one of our local papers (The Star-Telegram):

Small plane crashes after takeoff from northwest Tarrant airfield

A kit airplane piloted by a 62-year-old North Richland Hills man crashed near Hicks Airfield in northwest Tarrant County about 3:30 p.m. Sunday, the Tarrant County Sheriff's Department said. The RV-7 took off from the airport just before the crash. Reports indicated that the landing gear clipped a railroad track, causing the plane to go down, said Terry Grisham, a spokesman for the Sheriff's Department. The pilot and a 34-year-old male passenger refused medical attention at the scene, Grisham said. The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating the incident.
 
How'd he clip the tracks?

Although I live in Arkansas now I just moved from Flower Mound. I have flown in and out of Hicks many times. (best hamburgers for miles) I?m curious to find out why he hit the railroad tracks. They are positioned almost parallel with the runway.

I wonder if he had engine troubles?

Donald
RV-8 Empennage
N-284DP (Reserved)
 
Railroad Tracks?

Yep, I am not too sure about the R/R tracks either? They run parallel with the runway if memory serves me (like you mentioned)?

I'm just glad the two people on-board were OK. Hopefully someone from Hicks can provide more info? Many of the RV's based at Hicks are owned by people who actually live there in hangar homes, and many of them also post on this forum.
 
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??????????

Can't believe that with all the dozens of local DFW RV-ers that nobody else has heard anything about this incident?

I guess I'll have to call Jay Pratt tomorrow (RV Central) and try to get some details. I am just trying to figure out how someone "hit R/R tracks" when the tracks are parallel with the active runway? :confused:

It just had to be an engine failure?
 
Hicks Crash

Guys,

As usual, you can't believe what you read in the local rag (Fort Worth Star Telegram) or what's reported on the local news.

It was Tom Parks in his RV-7, N620CF. He had a control problem on takeoff, not landing, and fought a hard left roll that resulted in a loss of control to the right. He clipped some small trees between the railroad tracks and the runway which immediately shredded his composite prop. According to Tom, that's about the same time he pulled the power back. The gear struck the berm of the railroad tracks and the left gear folded under, the right only slightly.
The left outer wing was ripped open, the fuselage buckled right abeam the pilot and the left tank or fuel line ruptured. No fire! It skipped over the track and came to rest upright in more short scrubby trees.

I was totally amazed that Tom and his passenger had only minor scratches and I believe someone said Tom's elbow may have been the worse blow.

A local FAA guy had just landed in an EAA Chapter's Cessna so he was on the phone with his boss and began filing the report.

It took us several hours to round up the ground equipment needed to extract the plane, load it, and get it back to Tom's hangar so it could be examined.

Sorry, no pictures, in all the rush I grabbed my cap & handheld but forgot the digital camera.

It was a sad Easter for Tom but the alternative would have been worse. He's alive and I'm sure, going over and over what happened.

Ya'll be safe out there!
 
On track

mrreddick said:
Guys,

The gear struck the berm of the railroad tracks and the left gear folded under, the right only slightly.
Click to expand...

It's surely a case of going off track and ending up on track.
 
mrreddick said:
.......... He had a control problem on takeoff, not landing, and fought a hard left roll that resulted in a loss of control to the right...........
Click to expand...
Any preliminary word on what likely caused that control problem?
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
 
RV 7 Crash

Tom said the more he pushed one way the more it went the other? He said he thought something in the tail steering was jamed. The tail steering rod was reversed at the post crash inspection.
 
Jaypratt said:
Tom said the more he pushed one way the more it went the other? He said he thought something in the tail steering was jamed. The tail steering rod was reversed at the post crash inspection.
Click to expand...
You mean pushing on the rudder pedal? Wouldn't that be noticeable during taxi? Had the plane been down for maintenance recently?

Thomas
-8 wings
 
Do you know if he had a steering link installed? I was able to reverse mine while pushing the airplane around on the ground. I replaced my link with the stainless springs.
 
Randy-

What do you mean by reverse by pushing it on the ground? Is that something that could happen with full rudder deflection while taxiing (i.e turning onto the active right before power application?) Still seems like it would be noticeable early in the roll. I don't want to speculate / second guess too much as I have no details.

Is there something about the steering link that makes it reversible?

Thomas
-8 wings
 
Reversed controls are VERY difficult to recognize and correct for once rolling with takeoff power. We are conditioned to press right if the tail goes left. When the tail continues to move left, we push the right a bit more. We instantly interpret these signs as wind gusts or mayby a hung brake and correct for the wrong situation. Things can happen fast, often much faster than we can recognize and correct for. The Marine Corps lost a brand new V-22 prototype because a flight computer was cross-wired. This was on the initial, post production flight at vertical takeoff. The ship tilted right, the pilot corrected left, the ship went farther right and the pilot went farther left until is was upside down. This was a highly trained test flight pilot! Reversed controls are deadly. History has shown that Murphy just loves to hang out around flight controls. Whenever I break a flight control on a serviceable aircraft, I placard the control column to remind myself and others to do a complete control continuity check to include ensuring they move in the correct directions.

I for one ALWAYS do a full control check before takeoff. I've seen many pilots just wipe out the cockpit for feel and freedom of movement without actually looking at the surfaces for proper deflection. I experienced 2 flight control failures in military helicopters so maybe I'm a bit less trusting than others.

If you are the only one working on and flying an aircraft then maybe you can assume the controls have not been reversed after you last flew it, provided you havn't done any intervening maintenance. Comments on this incident said this was a flight following extended maintenance.

Jekyll
 
steering link

I have a -6 with a Steering link.
The link has gotten crossed over before, when the full swivel assembly needed servicing. This condition is what tipped me off to it needing service.
REMEMBER...the rudder is connected directly to the pedals! So anything the steering link may do only affects the tailwheel.
Bob Martin
RV-6 Jantz Steering Link
 
I definitely don't want to Monday morning quarterback this, and I agree 100% about the control reversal, but wouldn't you notice pretty early (especially in a taildragger) and maybe chop power before taking off?

Thomas
-8 wings
 
A control check is the 2nd item on my CHECKLIST which I use on EVERY flight. This is a good idea which can save a lot of grief especially if you fly infrequently. Crossed/ jammed controls have caused more accidents than you might think.
 
Bob Martin said:
I have a -6 with a Steering link.
The link has gotten crossed over before, when the full swivel assembly needed servicing. ...
Click to expand...
I'm having trouble understanding how that can happen. Are you saying the arm that connects the steering link to the tailwheel moves over to the wrong side?
 
TShort said:
I definitely don't want to Monday morning quarterback this, and I agree 100% about the control reversal, but wouldn't you notice pretty early (especially in a taildragger) and maybe chop power before taking off?
Click to expand...
This was one of the biggest items that came up on my last BFR. My instructor wanted to hammer "abort the takeoff if something isn't right" into my skull...and she did. She failed my tailwheel steering on me on one takeoff -- locked her knee and held her leg on the rudder pedal. Yes, I could over-power her but it was quickly apparent that I "had a problem" and I aborted as part of the exercise.

She cited a recent accident of the Ford Tri-Motor in Fullerton, CA that resulted apparently because crews failed to remove a control lock, but continued a takeoff despite losing directional control.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040929X01529&key=1

I have aborted takeoffs, but not many...most in the course of recurrent training. If there's a lesson to be learned here, imho we should all be vigilant in our preflight, and equally important is that we're poised and ready to abort a takeoff before the wheels leave the ground if something isn't right...especially on first flights, flights after maintenance, etc.

RV takeoffs are extremely quick relative to other types of planes. We only have a precious few seconds to realize that something is wrong. Be alert.

Forgot to mention -- I have had my Rocket steering link go "over center" (this is what people are referring to) but only while hand-pushing the plane around on the ground (and as another poster mentioned, it only happened when the tailwheel needed lubed). FWIW, before I get in my plane, when I remove the chocks I make sure the rudder is centered and locked with the tailwheel.
 
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Yes

rv8ch said:
I'm having trouble understanding how that can happen. Are you saying the arm that connects the steering link to the tailwheel moves over to the wrong side?
Click to expand...
Yes, that is exactly it!
The ARM is free to rotate once it is unlocked from the castoring assembly. Granted, this wouldn't just do this on it's own, it could happen while pushing the plane around at the hangar or the gas pumps etc.
Bob Martin
RV-6
 
Seeing as though a taildragger was involved, isn't it likely this was a crosswind caused ground loop?
 
mrreddick said:
Guys,
He had a control problem on takeoff, not landing, and fought a hard left roll that resulted in a loss of control to the right.
Click to expand...


A hard left roll--Was it a stalled wing? Anyone know if he was trying a max perform take off?

All this tail wheel talk is interesting, but I don't see how one could taxi with a reversed tail wheel and not notice. Is it something that can happend just before take-off? Pardon my questions -I fly one of those RVs that always flip over on their backs.
 
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A hard left roll--Was it a stalled wing? Anyone know if he was trying a max perform take off?
Click to expand...

I suspect we are stumbling over semantics. If the tailwheel link went over center (I learned something today....didn't know it was possible for this to happen...still puzzled over this because it would seem the tailwheel would be free to swivel if the steering arm wasn't in the detent...I've been flying the Jantzi steering link for several years with no difficulties) directional control would be reversed only while the plane was on the ground.

I have to wonder if the "hard left roll" is referring to a hard left pull while the plane was still on the ground. That would explain the "shredded prop" and why the gear was torn off when the RV hit the berm.

Even if the link was crossed up, the rudder should still operate properly in the air...unless it was jammed. Those of you who have witnessed the link going over center, did the rudder remain operational?

Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
EAA Tech Counselor
 
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Very interesting discussion, and like someone else mentioned, I surely don't want to second guess the pilot or speculate EXACTLY what caused the problem. However, with this being said, I believe I'll stick with the standard spring configuration myself. Now, if I can just get my shop built and my wings out of the crates....
 
Something to Check

Well I guess this is something to check on my -4 next time I get to the hanger.

The steering link is attached between the left side rudder horn and the single tailwheel steering arm (also on the left side). The tailwheel un-detents and goes into the full swivel mode after 30-45 degrees of rotation. If in normal operation full rudder deflection does not cause the linkage to go over-center (or even get close)...and the tailwheel is free castering before full rudder deflection then it would seem that things should be fine. If however the linkage is close to on-center, and the tailwheel has not yet started to caster, then additional turning of the tailwheel might push the linkage over center. This may be an adjustment issue, I'll have to mess with mine and see what variables could cause this.

Having said all that, if it did go over center, then you could conceive of the link not allowing the proper operation of the rudder. The amount of right rudder available in the over center condition would then depend on a number of geometric variables (for example, if the link on my -4 was crossed over, I'm pretty sure my geometry would make the link foul on the bottom of the rudder). It is conceivable that little to no right rudder could have been available at a time when we are usually standing on the right rudder to counteract the P factor. On the other hand, the tailwheel would still be in the full swivel mode and would go to the trail position. This might have allowed the plane to feel about right making a left turn onto the runway. Tracking down the runway with brake assist may not have felt that terribly bad either depending on how bad the crossed over geometry was limiting rudder motion. However, once the wheels were light, and you really need the rudder to counter the P factor, then thats when you start feeding in aileron. Depending on how bad the potential left rudder lock up was, this would then be a low speed cross controlled condition with lots of P factor possibly leading to a right snap....toward the RR tracks.

All just conjecture sitting here at the computer. Like I said, I will have to check mine to see how close to on center it can go.
 
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steering link over center?

If the steering link can go over center, then I think we need a way to provide hard stops to prevent this.

My first thought (without the assembly in front of me) is sort of a tabbed washer under the big nut on top, with the tabs bent up at the front and back of the nut to prevent the arm from rotating to the right side.

Others on the list have more background and expertise in this area, so I look forward to constructive feed back.

I had not considered this possibility until now, but as I think it through, the chains might have a similar failure mode.

James Freeman
RV-8 115 hours on a steering link
 
more steering link thoughts

This is one of those subjects that has hit me from out of the blue. The steering link on my RV-6 has been in use for several hundred hours and I had never even remotely considered the possibility of the link going over center.

Here is the installation on my plane:

steering_link-2.jpg


As someone has already mentioned, it seems to me the only way the arm could go over center (and I have a PIREP from a pilot that saw this happen) is if the tailwheel detent mechanism was crudded up to the point that the detent pin was frozen in the shaft. Otherwise, the arm would "pop loose" before it could be driven over-center. It also seems that if the over-center thing happened, it would be necessary for the tailwheel to be pointing "forward" since this is the only orientation that would allow the detent pin to lock into place.

From the photo it appears there would be damage to the bottom of the rudder (and possibly to the link itself) if the link went over-center. I also hadn't considered the possibility that the link might have enough compression travel for this to occur.

It seems reasonable that if the tailwheel is maintained properly it would be nearly impossible for this problem to occur. Guess I will need to keep an even closer eye on the condition of the detent in the tailwheel and make sure it is always well lubed and free to swivel. In my case, the detent gets checked after every flight because it is necessary to pop the detent every time I put the plane in the hangar.

I deeply regret the accident at Hicks but am grateful there were no personal injuries and that this potential got-cha has been brought to our attention.

Sam Buchanan
 
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When my link crossed over, it pressed up against the rudder bottom and would freeze the rudder over to the right. Any attempt to apply left rudder would simply stretch the spring of the link.

I also dispute the claim that this will only occur when the tailwheel swivel is worn or needs grease. Mine was brand new with less than 20 hours on it. However, my tailwheel arm did have a small amount of vertical play in it. That likely contributed to allowing the link to cross over.

I don't remember exactly how I got it to cross over. It happend twice on the ground when I was pushing the airplane into or out of the hangar. I can't say whether this can happen while taxiing or not. I've since disposed of the link in favor of the stainless steel springs from Van's.
 
Since nobody has commented on exactly how the link can go over center, I'll take a stab.

A combination of too much rudder travel and too short adjustment of the link.

Rudder swings full left, link is almost pointing straight forward. Tailwheel somehow swings around from right to left, in the course of pushing the plane around on the ground (or perhaps taxiing). If the "key" isn't properly lubed and sticks slightly, then it could give the horn a slight "push" over center as the wheel swings around. Rudder then swings back to the right, link is now on the right side.

Check your travel & adjustment, and lube your tailwheel regularly. Mine gets pulled apart, cleaned, and lubed at least once every 100 hours. Most taildragger/Rocket link folks I know don't do it that often.
 
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dan said:
Mine gets pulled apart, cleaned, and lubed at least once every 100 hours. Most taildragger/Rocket link folks I know don't do it that often.
Click to expand...
I also want to add that any time I fly in the rain or taxi when it's raining or taxi through puddles, I almost always end up lubing the tailwheel prior to the next flight. Water does a great job of washing out what little grease goes in the tailwheel shaft/key. Need to replenish it and re-lube.
 
Tailwheel link going over center

dan said:
Since nobody has commented on exactly how the link can go over center, I'll take a stab.

A combination of too much rudder travel and too short adjustment of the link.

Rudder swings full left, link is almost pointing straight forward. Tailwheel somehow swings around from right to left, in the course of pushing the plane around on the ground (or perhaps taxiing). If the "key" isn't properly lubed and sticks slightly, then it could give the horn a slight "push" over center as the wheel swings around. Rudder then swings back to the right, link is now on the right side. ...
Click to expand...
Do you think this could happen while taxiing, or is it only a problem with moving the plane around on the ground?
 
rv8ch said:
Do you think this could happen while taxiing, or is it only a problem with moving the plane around on the ground?
Click to expand...
This is 100% conjecture on my part, but I think the probability of it happening while taxiing is slim to none. The only scenario I can think of is if you lock a brake, kick the tail around to the right (left turn) and then somehow roll backward slightly before trying to straighten the tailwheel, and then swinging the tail around even more. Unlikely imho.
 
I would have to ask the same question as an earlier post.....wouldn't he have noticed during taxi? The run up area at Hicks is off to the side of the runway...provided he did his run up there he would still have been required to taxi onto the runway for take off.

I only ask this because it seems like everyone assumes the accident was caused by a reversed arm. I wonder if it was because of something else.

Donald
RV-8 Empennage
N-284DP Reserved
 
Last Friday I replaced my steering arm on my tailwheel/Rocket link. The reason I replaced it was due to wear in the semi-circular notch. The wear was allowing the key to compress into the tailwheel fork's shaft in certain conditions by simply applying rudder pressure.

I took my original Van's two-arm dealie and chopped an arm off, modified it to become my new Rocket link's steering arm. Works perfectly again.

But anyway, in the process of doing this, I really tried hard to figure out how the link could get crossed up. I confirmed that if the tailwheel is castering (not engaged), only if the Rocket link is adjusted TOO SHORT...that with enough FORCE applied to the link & arm after the rudder goes FULL LEFT, the arm can be pushed past/over center.

On my setup the way it's all adjusted, it's not possible. But if your rudder has "too much" travel and the Rocket link is adjusted too short, it is definitely conceivable for it to go over center with a little encouragement.

HOWEVER, when this occurs, the rudder would still theoretically be effective & controllable, it's just that tailwheel steering would be lost. You would not be able to engage & lock the tailwheel with the control arm. I have flown, taxied, taken off, and landed my RV-7 with zero tailwheel steering before. It has happened when the key wears a certain way and is allowed to "stick" inside the shaft. This is really not a huge deal. It's controllable with rudder and brakes in, presumably, all but the worst wind conditions.

Regardless, I would advise anybody with a Rocket link to test this on their setup to confirm that their rigging will not allow the arm/link to go over center.
 
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