T

tegwilym

Active Member
I'm currently an unemployed computer tech and now full-time RV7A builder. I'm lucky since I have a girlfriend who has owned 3 airplanes in the past and this his her 4th plane - we are building this time! (How many guys can say that stay home all day building a plane for their girlfriend?) ;)
Anyway, I'm wondering if it's time for a career change since I've been searching for a job since April with zero luck. I've been doing computer desktop support for 15 years and think I hit the glass ceiling or most companies are getting too cheap to hire and only do short term contracts for low pay and no health benefits.
Anyway, I'm really enjoying this airplane building and have heard that time logged building can go toward an A&P license. Does anyone know how this works? If I could build a plane and get a license at the same time somehow that would be really cool. I'm not sure what the job situation is for aircraft work like this, but I'm really grasping for some kind of change. I'm pretty burned out on supporting Microsoft software problems anyway.

Ideas? Suggestions? Encouragement? :confused:

Tom
RV7A - Horizontal stab complete - starting vertical stab next!
http://www.mykitlog.com/tomtraci/
Renton, WA
 
Tom: Three ways to get an A/P that I know of. First, be a military crew chief and have all your tech schools completed. Two, complete an certified A/P school, about 18 months or more. And, Three, work under the supervision of IA for 30 months and get a signed recommendation that you are proficient in all required areas. The above methods get you a permission slip from your local FSDO to take the 2 part A/P test (not free), one part on engines, the P and one part on airframes, the A. Now for the last part, you must schedule a couple of days with an examiner who will give you an oral quiz for about half a day or more and then have you perform several maintenance activities to verify you know your airframe and engine repair procedures (also not free). Most of the oral will be on tube and fabric airframes and round motors and "where would you find that in what tech manual" type questions. Stick with computers, you don't get your hands dirty and the customers are happy to pay if you fix it. Dan
 
It depends on your local FSDO.

Since amateur-built aircraft don't have to meet any "type certificate", the time spent building does not count toward the experience required for the A&P testing.

Having said that, there have been FSDOs that allowed this.

So it all depends on who you are working with. Check with your local FSDO.
 
Tom,

Seeing that you live in Renton, I know of one very large employer there that would probably recognize your building experience and put you to work! (Boeing). You would need a couple years of experience there to get to the higher paying A&P jobs anyway.

Keep in mind that working for a manufacturer more closely resembles the job of building an RV. Most A&P jobs more closely resemble working for Pep Boys.
 
Recent A&P

I built my RV while still working Big Blue in technical sales. When I retired a few years ago my goal was to get my A&P and then work in a "fun" job working around airplanes.

I completed my A&P last December. My RV building experience gave me a real head start (even compared to the ex-military aviation guys) but there was a ton of stuff in the A&P program that was new to me. There was no way that I could have passed the Oral & Practical portions of the A&P exams without the formal education.

One part the Dan forgot to mention is the General portion of the O&P. When you get the first part of the certificate (either A or P), you also have to take the General. The majority (98%) that went through the program I attended did the Airframe & General first. This was after a year of full time classes. The O&P for A and G takes about 1.5 days. You also have to take the FAA written for the A & G. The Powerplant part was easier. Two semesters followed by a 6 hour O&P and the FAA written.

There are some decent entry level jobs at around $25/hr but many of the entry level jobs are under $20/hr.

I got lucky and got a short term gig that paid well. I left that job in a few months ago and haven't found another A&P position that I would want to do.

If you want to make money, stick with computers (even though it's boring).
 
It Can

My FSDO figured my four RV-7s was sufficient experience to sign me off for the writtens and practical tests. I decided not to bother, even though it could amount to a decent part-time activity for an old retired guy.

Even multiple RVs represent a miniscule knowledge base. Read Mike Busch's article in the current Sport Aviation. Considerable of what you'll have to learn or memorize to pass the written is garbage or inapplicable to your interest.

The great majority of GA maintenance hangars I've visited that would be at the fun airplane level offer little more than glorified grease monkey careers. The corporate-size outfits might suit you as possibly the airline operations, but it's specialized and would require specialized training.

So...RV building helps, but one surely isn't enough to move to the writtens. If you really, really, really want to be an A&P check out the employment options and be prepared to spend time and money getting an appropriate education.

John Siebold
 
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apkp777 said:
...Keep in mind that working for a manufacturer more closely resembles the job of building an RV. Most A&P jobs more closely resemble working for Pep Boys...
Click to expand...

I have worked both the factory and maintenance shop side of things and while I'm glad to have my A&P, I would never want to rely on it as a career.

If you're on the factory side, you're going to spend your first years working in "pots and pans" - building fiddly little racks and sub assemblies. If you're going to work with the local FBO, you will spend your days working on 50 year old aircraft owned by a guy who wants show winning work but as cheaply as possible. After you've installed some new avionics, but have to simply cut off and leave the old wiring in there because its too expensive to redo the whole harness, your enthusiasm for the "glamorous" world of aircraft maintenance will cool a bunch.

Besides, there are far more A&P's than jobs anyway. This would not be my first choice... Far from it.
 
Resume Upper

In a competitive job market such as this, having an A&P certificate can be a discriminator. I earned my A&P while I was also getting my aeronautical engineering degree at Okla State in '79. They had an aviation tech school back then. The job market was really tough then, too and most of my classmates were getting zero job offers in aerospace/defense. I got six and every one said it was because of the A&P, even though it was not a requirement for the engineering jobs offered.
I wouldn't assume a ton of debt to get it, but a lot of jr. colleges offer a program. I really enjoyed the practical aspect of the classes and they were easy compared to the engineering curriculum.
 
RV7ator said:
So...RV building helps, but one surely isn't enough to move to the writtens. If you really, really, really want to be an A&P check out the employment options and be prepared to spend time and money getting an appropriate education.

John Siebold
Click to expand...

This goes for computers or anything else as well. The best bet is to spend the time and money and get a Bachelor's degree. You can get by in the IT world if you have the right certifications for the job you're applying for, but your best bet and the easiest way to open doors in just about any field is an education.

There are very few free rides. Everything is getting too complex. Many places won't even open the door for you without a degree. Heck even then its difficult.

You'll also find that once you take something you really enjoy or think you'd enjoy and turn it into a job, its just not as much fun...unless its truly something for the heart and not the wallet.

Bob
 
I got my A&P license way back in 1991, and up to now have never seen a job I would take. As stated, low wages, PEP boys grease monkey duties, I have not seen it ever amounted to much, and the tests themselves don't prepare you for much. My main reason was to do my own maintenance, and in the experimental world I can do my own annual condition inspections as well.
 
Ok thanks for all the comments. This is pretty much what I expected to hear when I posted this. I agree with the degree thing, I can't even get noticed at all at Boeing unless I have a degree - doesn't even matter what degree - just a bachelor's degree. My GF works with 20 something kids fresh out of college with a degree in "international studies" and they are making $65k starting - and they have zero interest in airplanes - none. It's disgusting.
I am very familiar with the aviation business, I've been involved with it for 22 years as a pilot and flight instructing for about 18 years now - not as a real job, but just as my fun side job and hobby that pays my addiction! :D

I'm not a programmer, but basically the "office computer guy" to describe it in a few words. It kind of happened as computer hobby that turned into a job. I've done fine for the last 15 years, but after my latest (and 4th layoff) I've found the job market to be absolutely horrible this time. I'm just trying to figure out some path, but not sure where I'm going anymore.

*Sigh* Quest continues...

Tom
 
I believe your question was, is the time spent building your RV7 considered for qualifying to take your A&P writtens and practical tests and get your A&P certificate. It was for me and two of my RV building buddies by our local FSDO. I have my recommendation in hand, and can take the tests, or training to pass the tests, whenever I want. You didn't ask about job availability/pay and I wouldn't know the answer to that, but if you have a situation where you can make some money with an A&P, I think you may have the required hours of hands on experience to get a recommendation if your local FSDO approves. That's where I am, although I'm at the end of my normal career, and want to do something I enjoy to make a few bucks and justify my addiction. That situation exists and my RV building helped me accomplish the requirement. Best of luck to you. Doing something you enjoy may be worth it.
 
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