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Daniel S.

Well Known Member
Seriously, I Know this topic has been beaten to death by others, including myself. BUT... I'm really curious why no one has taken the bull by the horns & cloned the 10/14 nose gear setup (but scaled down for the 7/8/9). I'm no engineer but I'd think it would be simple enough to revese-engineer the engine mount & nose gear strut from the 10/14 & scale it down. What about the guys who make all the weldments for vans? On second thought, they probably have a sales agreement with vans... But there's a small fortune that could be made here. It's something I'd definately be willing to invest in and sell as an aftermarket option:D... Not every landing can be perfect every single time. Close but not all the time...

I know, I know there is the TW option & I do have my TW endorsement plus a ton of TW time... But all I want is beefy nose gear & not a total experiment like Mick's steerable nose strut, although that is VERY, VERY Cool by the way.

Just random thoughts & questions here
 
That, and the fact that it is not a faulty design, as thousands of airplanes have not gone over.

Unforgiving of lousy landings perhaps, or unseen gopher holes.

Best,
 
Or wet surfaces. Search about a 9A that went over sometime earlier this year. My recollection is that it flipped over after recent rains. Maybe there was a grading of the turf/grass/dirt strip and the problem occurred in that area.

Can't blame the nosegear for that.

Look at recent FAA accident reports and I see Cessna's that flip over after landing off airport.

But do not let that view keep someone from making a mod that they feel is of value to some folks.
 
How many 10s or 14s have landed on grass strips with gopher holes or really soft/mud strip to know that those will not go over?
 
I agree with Pierre but still put a mod on the nose gear leg. From AntiSplatAero. Reinforces the gear leg, moves the forces further up the gear leg when an unfortunate situation would otherwise roll the bottom of the gear leg under causing many problems, and put the skid plate on the bottom of the leg to offer some level of help in keeping it from digging in when the castle nut hits the dirt, so to speak. I don't intend to test any of it:)
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Ron Lee said:
Perhaps the cost is not worth it.
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...I THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!!
...We can make this retrofit, and it's not all that difficult. From the people we have talked to about this most all are not willing to spend what would be required. First you need a new engine mount, gear leg assembly and all associated parts and hardware, a new exhaust system, extensive cowling, fairing etc modifications and re-paint. Collectively this is a very expensive and labor intensive undertaking. The price would need be at best the cost of these items for a 10 from Vans. To even consider building this kit would require sales in the several hundred range or the pricing would be cost prohibitive to most people. With just a few inexpensive mods and parts the original gear is very good and provides excellent performance without breaking the bank and requires very little labor. But if we get an adequate number of interested people we can build this for sure. Thanks, Allan...:D
 
I'm with you on this one Daniel. I also have never seen a satisfactory explanation as to why a RV10/14 style nose gear can't be implemented on a 7, 9, or other RV with reasonable effort. I will have lots of potential gopher holes to deal with and want every advantage possible if I go with an A model.
 
Diamond, I will offer my free advice. If you have gophers stay away from an A model. This may not apply to the RV-10.
 
PerfTech said:
...I THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!!
...We can make this retrofit, and it's not all that difficult. From the people we have talked to about this most all are not willing to spend what would be required. First you need a new engine mount, gear leg assembly and all associated parts and hardware, a new exhaust system, extensive cowling, fairing etc modifications and re-paint. Collectively this is a very expensive and labor intensive undertaking. The price would need be at best the cost of these items for a 10 from Vans. To even consider building this kit would require sales in the several hundred range or the pricing would be cost prohibitive to most people. With just a few inexpensive mods and parts the original gear is very good and provides excellent performance without breaking the bank and requires very little labor. But if we get an adequate number of interested people we can build this for sure. Thanks, Allan...:D
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No doubt it would cost more than the antisplat mod you currently offer, but I'd bet you would have more interest in a true Rv10/14 style nose gear mod than you might guess. Allan, how about you come up with a good estimate of how much a retrofit type kit of this sort would cost and then do a poll to measure interest? Also take in to account what Vans would refund a customer for unused parts out of a kit order.
 
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nose gear leg

Has anyone looked at the RV 14 nose gear up close ? I am not sure that it is like the RV10. It may be more like a beefed up RV 8a setup with a RV 10 fork. I am just wondering if any one has looked closely at it. Thanks Ron
 
868RM said:
Has anyone looked at the RV 14 nose gear up close ? I am not sure that it is like the RV10. It may be more like a beefed up RV 8a setup with a RV 10 fork. I am just wondering if any one has looked closely at it. Thanks Ron
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The RV-14 nose gear design that was on the airplane at Oshkosh is/was not like the RV-10. In fact, when I flew the airplane in September, they were doing some work on a new design, so really I don't think anyone knows for sure what the "final" RV-14 nose gear will be like.
 
diamond said:
I also have never seen a satisfactory explanation as to why a RV10/14 style nose gear can't be implemented on a 7, 9, or other RV with reasonable effort.
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I will try with a couple.....

1. Carburetors (and in some cases fuel injection)!
It would be very difficult to implement for any airplane that didn't have a horizontal induction engine.

2. Fuselage structure!
The RV-10 and 14 have fuselages whose designs were integrated with the motor mount gear leg. I'm not saying that a motor mount/gear leg combination couldn't be designed to work with the existing fuselage design on the other sbs airplanes, just saying it would probably require more than just bolting the RV-10/14 design on an RV-7.
 
Ironflight said:
The RV-14 nose gear design that was on the airplane at Oshkosh is/was not like the RV-10. In fact, when I flew the airplane in September, they were doing some work on a new design, so really I don't think anyone knows for sure what the "final" RV-14 nose gear will be like.
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Paul's correct (of course);)

The RV-14 now (conversion made immediately after it returned from the AOPA Summit) has a nose gear design that is very close to what is on the RV-10. It is working well (has been to the Copper State Fly-in) and it will likely be the final design as long as it passes all of the dynamic load tests that will be done on it in the future
 
leg

Thanks Paul, I hope with either design that is chosen the larger tire (RV 10 front) will be used. The larger dia. will handle gopher holes much better than the smaller one. Ron
 
Anti-Splat mods are the only thing that make sense.

diamond said:
No doubt it would cost more than the antisplat mod you currently offer, but I'd bet you would have more interest in a true Rv10/14 style nose gear mod than you might guess.
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For someone to design a new gear there needs to be interest (money making opportunity) AND proof to the A owners that it actually solves the issue. With the cost and work required to mod the planes, I would not think you would get anyone retro-fitting existing planes. Only people in build would be interested in using it.

I think you would be surprised how many A RVs do not have the Van's mod (new fork and cut off 1" of gear leg with additional threading) or the Anti-splat mods. I would venture to guess the majority of the A builder/pilots do not believe they need anything different on their nose gear. This forum is full of threads by the vocal minority that there is an issue but for the everyday flyer of an A off paved runways not sure people think there is such a big problem. Getting the number of mods that Anti-splat has sold and the gear leg mods done by the gear company and compare to the number of A's flying would be a good stat to determine % of A's out there flying on the original un-moded gear.

Snowflake said:
I think you have the real answer already. :)
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Exactly. I do not drive my BMW on gravel roads (that is what the truck is for) or fly my A on grass runways (that is for my C140). If you really want to fly off grass I would recommend the TW (even before the flip over issue arose).
 
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Thanks all for your input! It's very interesting to hear everone's opinions!! I know there is not a "real" issue with the current design. I plan on having a couple -10 driver on my insurance. I know they will respect and care for my plane as they do their own. I just want to make sure there is limited splat risk. :D... I'll just keep with my original plan and add Allan's reinforcement to the toothpick. :cool: And I'll try to keep my mouth shut about the nose dragger gear ;)

I really appreciate all of your opinions.
 
Daniel S. said:
Thanks all for your input! It's very interesting to hear everone's opinions!! I know there is not a "real" issue with the current design. I plan on having a couple -10 driver on my insurance. I know they will respect and care for my plane as they do their own. I just want to make sure there is limited splat risk. :D... I'll just keep with my original plan and add Allan's reinforcement to the toothpick. :cool: And I'll try to keep my mouth shut about the nose dragger gear ;)

I really appreciate all of your opinions.
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As a bona fide member of the bent toothpick club............that's the best idea...

L.Adamson
 
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