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prkaye

Well Known Member
What airspeed and flap settings do you guys typically use for a normal final approach speed on your -9A? I think the Cafe report said 80mph (70 kts), but I'm wondering with flap if people typically come in any slower than that?
 
70 kias on final, 60 kias over the fence. Short field, 5 knots less, but below 60 kias the aircraft descends quickly, so hold some power.

Vern
 
Abeam the numbers I drop in all the flaps and trim it for 65 MPH (55 knots) solo. With two or more (baggage) aboard I still put in all the flaps abeam the numbers but trim it for 70 MPH.

For your first flight, I would use 70 MPH (60 Knots) and a long runway. The -9 will float a good distance once you get in to ground effect.

One other thing, I don't slip it below 70 MPH. It will slip very nice with full flaps and 70 MPH. Below that speed, be VERY careful in a full slip.

Best of luck with your first flight.

PS. Those number work great on my 2300' field and I'm turing around at mid field w/o using the brakes to slow down.
 
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Totally Agree

Hi

I totally agree with Vern. The 9 will stop very short with full flap I have done it in well less than 75 feet with 15 knots on the nose, but you need a bit of power to arrest the sink. Also keep the stic back like a taildragger and land on the mains and keep it in your gut on the roll out, the nose wheel will drop quite sharply but holding the stick back will keep the weight off that nose gear.
 
I think it depends on what prop you have. If constant speed yes, 70kts would probably be fine but if fixed I think 70kts is fast. I have a Sensenitch wood prop on my 9A and like 70Kts on base but like 65Kts on short final and even down to 60Kts comming accross the fence. Otherwise it floats forever once in ground effect.

To get off at mid field (3000' runway)and not have to stand on the brakes I have to see my air speed 55-60Kts over the threshold.

doug
 
we fly from a short(ish) grass field - a little over 2000ft hedge to hedge. We fly the whole final with full flap & 60 kts. Any faster and the approach gets a little flat and the float a little long... At that speed our Dynon AOA is just starting to chirp (beginning of the orange sector)

If its windy we approach at more like 65 and let the wind sort out the approach angle & the float.

We have a 2-blade MT CS prop.

Dave
 
I'm pretty much with Bill R. here, although I hold a little higher on DW and base. You were interested in final speeds, so 65-70 mph (depending on weight) sounds real good. 80 (70 kts) is way too fast for me. Remember YOUR ASI may be different, so don't count on it exactly. Early on keep it a bit higher. You will find that airspeed is a great way to regulate final approach. Nose down if you are low; slow down if you are high. The 9A does sink much quicker when it is below 60 mph. It does slip well, and I actually slipped down final on my first flight. (Not proud of that, BTW, but I had practice during transition training.) I don't understand Bill's concern about slips below 70, at least beyond the normal caution in a lower speed slip. Mine doesn't do anything scary like an early 172 would. Care to explain, Bill?

Bob Kelly
 
videobobk said:
... I don't understand Bill's concern about slips below 70, at least beyond the normal caution in a lower speed slip. Mine doesn't do anything scary like an early 172 would. Care to explain, Bill?

Bob Kelly
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Bob,

I have slipped mine below 70 mph but not close to the ground. When I slip my plane, it is usually a full deflection slip, not just a little. So, if you slow it down too much with it cross controlled, you can be in for a load of hurt.

I added that comment just so he wouldn't worry about slipping it on his first flight, if he had to. That and 70 MPH gives you a LOT of safety margin. Later, after Phil gets some time in his -9A, he can slow it down some.

BTW, I'm yet to get my -9 to act like an older 172 with 40 degrees of flaps in and a full deflection slip where the nose starts to bob up and down. Slips in a -9 work out really nice.
 
Another data point

Early on I typically came in full flaps around 75 mph but now with 200+ hours on the airplane get over the fence around 65. Probably a bit safer early on to have the additional speed unless you are working from a quite short field (I have 9000 feet to play with!). I rarely land without full flaps or it floats a lot. And I float a lot anyway if at lower DA - hard for me to get the thing to land sometimes at sea level!

greg
 
takeoff flaps?

Thansk guys! Some good data there.
Sounds like a good starting point for my first flight landing would be full flaps and final approach speed 70 kts slowing to 65kts short final "over the fence".
(my airport is a 4000' runway).

What about takeoff flaps?
Rotate 60 kts?
Climb 100 kts?
 
prkaye said:
Thansk guys! Some good data there.
Sounds like a good starting point for my first flight landing would be full flaps and final approach speed 70 kts slowing to 65kts short final "over the fence".
(my airport is a 4000' runway).

What about takeoff flaps?
Rotate 60 kts?
Climb 100 kts?
Click to expand...

No takeoff flaps. NO "rotation". Pick the nose up off the runway immediately when you add power, hold it 6" off, and just let the airplane fly off the runway when it is ready. Climbout is whatever you need for cooling and visibility over the nose. 100kts is certainly much higher than Vy.
 
Phil,

I wouldn't use any takeoff flaps for the first flight (I rarely do even now). Bring speed up to about 40 mph and pull the nose off so you're running on the mains and at about 60 mph it will just fly off the runway. In my case with half fuel and just me, on the first flight I was off the ground well before 1000 ft, even at 5000 runway elevation. I typically have the R wing dip a bit on takeoff. Once airborne, I push the nose over to level and pick up speed (for cooling) to about 110 mph before beginning my climb out, but that will depend on what's at the end of your runway. Particularly with a new engine, it will tend to get hot pretty fast at low speeds.

Have fun!

greg
 
No need for flaps on the first flight.

I lift the tail as soon as I can and fly off at about 60 mph and climb at 100 to 120 mph for good cooling.

I've never flown a -9A so I can't help you there.
 
dougknight said:
I think it depends on what prop you have. If constant speed yes, 70kts would probably be fine but if fixed I think 70kts is fast. I have a Sensenitch wood prop on my 9A and like 70Kts on base but like 65Kts on short final and even down to 60Kts comming accross the fence. Otherwise it floats forever once in ground effect.
Click to expand...

I know it depends...........on which prop! :D

With a C/S, the 9 is no floater. It will bleed off speed almost as fast as my 6A. Either flare at the right moment, or use a bit of power.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
I've got a Catto 3-blade FP.

Out of curiosity - why do so many RV folks use mph, when almost the entire aviation industry uses kts? Just because the numbers somehow sound bigger?
 
Knots to you...

prkaye said:
Out of curiosity - why do so many RV folks use mph, when almost the entire aviation industry uses kts? Just because the numbers somehow sound bigger?
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One of life's mysteries. There was a thread on this a couple of years ago and I think we decided to use kilometers to come up with the really impressive numbers. Just kidding, but I'm hard core, knots and NM for me, why use numbers that have to be converted?

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
prkaye said:
I've got a Catto 3-blade FP.

Out of curiosity - why do so many RV folks use mph, when almost the entire aviation industry uses kts? Just because the numbers somehow sound bigger?
Click to expand...

Beats me, I use knots. But since a number of others use mph, that I fly with............I installed a second GPS set to mph. That way, when we can't see each other on those Sunday brunch hops, we can at least give "miles" from the destination airport, and be on the same page.

P.S. --- There is an advantage though. For the 6A, I use 90/80/70 knots for the pattern. If switching to the 9A, it's 90/80/70 mph. So it all works out and is easy to remember.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
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airspeeds in general

Hi guys,
just to refresh this topic, I have only about 25 hrs in my fixed pitch -9a, and really don't think I have a handle on the speeds, assuming my ASI is typical.
I want to approach at 1.2 x stall for safety margin, ( gusty around here) but as many say, on a nice stabilized 70 kt. full-flap final, if I bleed off some speed over the fence, to reduce float, she sinks like crazy, and I'm suddenly diving at the numbers, or adding power. Not the ideal sequence.

Also, those who say you can slip at 70 kts., I thought the ASI would usually show a different number when slipped to the left, or right, and regardless, would be totally inaccurate. Maybe someone has done testing with an AoA gauge, or GPS groundspeed to verify this.

comments? :)
 
This has been an interesting thread to watch. I bring my -7A down final at 65kts -- 60 kts if I'm really trying to drop it in somewhere. I'm quite surprised that the -9'ers are doing the same thing -- I'm really surprised to hear that some of you final at 70kts.
 
John Clark said:
. . . but I'm hard core, knots and NM for me, why use numbers that have to be converted?
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Interesting. That is the very reason I use MPH. Why have to convert everything when the rest of my time traveling on the ground revolves around distance being measured in terms of statute miles and speed being measured in Miles Per Hour.

Although I fully understand how to use measurement units in knots, I have to constantly convert knots to statute miles in order to grasp the distance or the speed whenever distances or speeds are presented using knots. It just comes naturally when it is discussed in terms of statute miles.
 
I have to agree!

Jamie said:
This has been an interesting thread to watch. I bring my -7A down final at 65kts -- 60 kts if I'm really trying to drop it in somewhere. I'm quite surprised that the -9'ers are doing the same thing -- I'm really surprised to hear that some of you final at 70kts.
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I use 60kts with my -6. 70kts sounds really fast, especially for a -9.
 
flyboy1963 said:
Also, those who say you can slip at 70 kts., I thought the ASI would usually show a different number when slipped to the left, or right, and regardless, would be totally inaccurate. Maybe someone has done testing with an AoA gauge, or GPS groundspeed to verify this.
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With static ports on both sides, a slip shouldn't affect IAS.
I slip my -6 regularly at 60kts.
 
airspeeds

wow! a lot of interesting numbers here. I think I'm too busy looking out the window to know the exact IAS that some things are happening.

Yes, she float quite a ways over the tarmac when trying to bleed off from 60 - 65 kts. to when it settles, in ground effect, perhaps at 48 kts or so. ( just guessing here.)
My -9a indicates about 55 kts, when a slight elevator buffet starts, and the nose falls at just below 50 kts, power off. ( which is the published stall IIRC)

I guess I'm not in the same league as more experienced /fighter pilot/ IFR /expert types who can hold their 50 kt approach speed within +/- one knot, but still, isn't there a Margin recommended?

Thanks Mel for the feedback on the slips, I will go out and compare left and right and see what the ASI reads....but again, not being Joe test pilot, the 2 slips are unlikely to be the same.
 
Jamie said:
This has been an interesting thread to watch. I bring my -7A down final at 65kts -- 60 kts if I'm really trying to drop it in somewhere. I'm quite surprised that the -9'ers are doing the same thing -- I'm really surprised to hear that some of you final at 70kts.
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It's the airfoil differences. Just because the -9 stalls at a lower speed does not mean that it maintains lift in the same way the -7 airfoil does in slow flight.

The -9 stall is difficult to discern because of the rapid loss of lift before the stall. It's this loss of lift below 60KIAS that we need to manage (or use to our benefit).

To fly the -9 at the edge of the envelope requires a significant nose high attitude and power. Very short field landings are possible, but the technique must be perfect or the vertical speed will be significant.

I have landed in less than 300 feet this way, but it is not for the faint of heart. It did, however, cause one tower controller to comment favorably on the capabilities of the -9 (A), which she called a `parachute drop`.
 
My opinion. Do not hold the nose off (A model) until the nose wheel DROPS HARD. Gently let it down while you still have elevator authority.
 
one thing I found out real quick on landing any RV, I'm assuming we are talking about landing a tri here, but you fly the rv to the runway. Meaning, you landing it like wheel landing a tail wheel. Let me explain this one. If you try and land an RV like a cessna, most likely you are going to end up ballooning on the flair, these airplanes are very elevator sensitive. When I did my transision training, the first landing was an eye opener. I went for the landing, classic, and flaired for landing at the runway, I pull that stick back and wow, I went up-way up, I had to quickly put in full power and do a go around.

Second attempt, same thing. I really was dumbfounded. Than on the third attempt I said to myself, I'm going to fly this thing to the runway like doing a wheel landing in my Kitfox. low and behold a perfect landing, the nose wheel was off the ground about 6 inches and just perfect on the mains touching the runway. I never had another problem.

Flying my 7a now it is the same way as back then. Now I use 70kts on final and just as I get about 20ft off I do a slow pull back to round out the approach to the runway, at this time the speed will bleed off to 60kts than I put in just a smidge of power to maintain that speed and fly the plane on the runway, I don't squeek or bounce, just real nice and the nose is up just a tad, real nice couse I can see down the runway nice also. Than I just slowely pull the stick back to maintain nose off until it's right in my gut. than I wait for it to fall to the runway which is just a few inches. I also pull full power off as soon as I touch with the mains.

Now If I happen to come in slower, lets say 65kts or less on final I drop faster and than when I try to round out at the runway to nose comes up way to much and than I can't see out the front and than I have to look to the left at the side of the runway, kind of like a 3point in the kitfox, a face full of panel. Not to comfy on that, I would emagine a lot of trouble for a beginner.
 
vlittle said:
I have landed in less than 300 feet this way, but it is not for the faint of heart. It did, however, cause one tower controller to comment favorably on the capabilities of the -9 (A), which she called a `parachute drop`.
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Vern is correct. My 9A with a CS prop will drop very quickly at lower speeds once the power is chopped. However the "parachute drop" can be useful if landing on a short strip with obstacles near the threshold. My airstrip is like this and I have found the best way to land is to approach at 55 kts (solo weight), chop the power once clear of the obstacle and let it drop while trying to maintain about 55 kts. This may actually require a slight amount of fwd stick which is a bit scary with the ground approaching rapidly. I flare close to the ground and provided the speed has not dropped below about 50 kts (preferably 52 to 55 kts) there will be plenty of power in the elevator and wings to arrest the rapid rate of descent. Any slower though and I would hit with a bang and a bounce.
This also has implications for an engine out forced landing. Even though in my 9A the full flap stall is around 40 to 42 kts IAS I would not want to be much under 55 kts unless near the ground without an engine to arrest the rate of descent.
Normal airstrips are a lot more relaxed and I approach at 60 kts and do a standard Cessna type flare.

Fin
9A
 
Finley Atherton said:
Vern is correct. My 9A with a CS prop will drop very quickly at lower speeds once the power is chopped.
Click to expand...

And I'll second that. It's more like my 6A with a C/S prop. You'd expect some kind of ground effect cusion with those longer wings and a blunt leading edge........but no, with the braking power of a constant speed, it can and will come down like a rock too! And how do I know? Well, never mind... :eek:

In the meantime, I also land the 6A both ways. Either a steep drop with a precision flare at the exact moment to arrest the sink rate, or carry a bit of power.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
The 9 stall speed (Vso) should be 48 mph indicated. Way back when, I was taught to fly final at 1.3 times Vso which is 62.4 mph indicated.
Use 65 mph on final and all will be well. Anything much faster than 75 and you'll touch down midfield. That's ok if the runway is a mile long.
I'd go fly a stall series or two and verify the indicated airspeed numbers in your airplane agree with the design numbers before trying to make the first turnoff.
 
I agree that it is important to know where your plane will stall at different configurations and weights....Make note of the IAS at stall.

If you have an ASI error and don't know it, that could get you in trouble.

Trust me, you can have IAS errors!!!!!
 
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