KiloWhiskey1

Well Known Member
Planning a future panel upgrade and I wanted to find out if there are any major advantages to having the larger GTN 750 vs the 650. Specifically, what things can’t be done on the G3X touch that you’d need to do on the 650 or 750? And in those instances is the size of the 750 a difference maker? My mission would include IFR and I’d like to do without an iPad if practical. So approach charts on one of the screens would be an advantage.

Thanks for the help!
 
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I don’t have a g3x, but I do have 650. After ten years of flying, I find the only time I touch the 650 is to enter my initial flight plan. All of the data viewable on the 650 is also on the much larger efis screen. With two 10” efis, a 8’ efis, and a g5, I don’t have real estate for the larger 750. I don’t miss it or even have a desire for the 750.
 
I went from 650xi-750xi, if the budget will allow, I would definitely go for it. The display on the 750 is super usable for something other than just programming (traffic, weather, airport info, approaches, fuel planning, etc.). Viewing/changing the flt plan, while flyiing, when you get a re-route (seems like every time) is much easier. as well. Overall, a much better experience.
 
Very definitely go for the 750! And there's lots more to it. (I wish Garmin would pay me to make a video on how to best exploit the G3X Touch architecture...)

Factors to consider:
* There is NOTHING that really needs to be displayed full screen. For starters, most of the information content is in the center of the screen, and on the right hand screen (MFD, if you will), single window, that good information is farther away than if the MFD screen is partitioned into two windows and the good information is in the left window. I customarily fly with the MFD split into two windows: the left window content is swapped around in flight, often traffic, and the right window is typically duplicate flight instruments.
* Consider the parameter bar as well. That's a wonderful place for all kinds of flight data. I have the left screen set up for next waypoint data and other information; the 650 has destination data, but a gotcha is that is along the programmed flight path, including the approach. If ATC gives you a shortcut, that destination data is flat out wrong. Don't fall into the trap of putting all of the radio controls on the parameter bar just because you can.
* On the right screen parameter bar, I have less commonly used data but I also duplicate the next waypoint data for the occasional right seater.

Here's a good exercise: list all of the available screen displays, and figure out which ones are used in what phases of flight. I tend to use traffic, approach plates, map and chart the most. I almost never use terrain, but that might change if I moved out of the flatlands. And since almost all of my clearances are GPS direct, I never use IFR charts. (Yes, I'm lucky).

You get the idea -- figure out what information is used when. Give priority to information that is used most frequently, and to information that is needed in a hurry. (This is similar to figuring out what functions earn their way onto control stick buttons.) Don't optimize your panel for pre-takeoff, as that's when you have no time pressures. Include the parameter bars and radio tuning in your design. For example, transponder ident is easily handled with a discrete pushbutton and can be done quickly that way, but changing codes is rarely done and there's no great hurry, so it doesn't earn prime space on a parameter bar.

Like everything else in human factors design, it's easy to get to a 90% good design, a lot more work will get you to 95%, and after that, lots more work will exploit different tradeoffs but you'll still be at about 95%. Maybe 96%.

For example: I went through several checklist iterations when my RV-9A came with a hodge-podge of glass panel stuff, and the checklist cleaned up when I went all Garmin. But as I learned more about how G3X system worked and the subtleties, and as I improved my techniques, the checklists continued to evolve. I just finished Rev 31... and in addition to airframe checks, I also have an approach checklist for both LPV and ILS, as there are things to remember.

I'd love to put a 750 into my panel, but it would mean new sheet metal, new wiring, and months of down time. And of course, lotsa money.
 
I don’t have a g3x, but I do have 650. After ten years of flying, I find the only time I touch the 650 is to enter my initial flight plan. All of the data viewable on the 650 is also on the much larger efis screen. With two 10” efis, a 8’ efis, and a g5, I don’t have real estate for the larger 750. I don’t miss it or even have a desire for the 750.

What Bob said!

The screen on the 650 is just fine for fat fingering in the flight plan and whatever ATC decides to do to you. For dual screen EFIS installs, the EFIS screen is where you fly the flight plan, not the 650 or 750. The EFIS s also where you navigate terrain, contacts and weather.

If you just have a pile of money to blow then get the 750 - my point is the marginal gain between the 650 and 750 does not, in my opinion, justify the cost.

I've been flying a 650 in either an RV-10 or the current RV-8 for 11 years. It does what it needs to do for IFR, the integrated SkyView system does everything else - getting the handoff from the 650 via the SyView ARINC.

Side note - the new RV-10 will have the GPS-175 and Trig TX-56A NAV/COMM instead of the 650.

Carl
 
Thanks for all the good info. I watched the suggested video and another on the same YouTube channel. After watching I left with the impression that all the nav buttonology could be done on the G3X except for entering approaches. Is that true with current software versions? Also, I had in my mind that I’d use the MFD for artificial horizon and moving map and then the 750 for approach plates. Is there a good way to accomplish the same thing using the G3X and 650?

Keep the comments coming.
 
I'd get the 750xi

I've only been able to use the 650 while piloting myself to date and I've never said gee, the screen size on this is ideal... For example with the 750, having a full QWERTY keyboard with the numbers also on the same screen so no going back and forth like you have to do on the 650 is icing on the cake to consider it for me, I'm lazy and my eyes aren't getting any better so I always like larger displays.

There's no doubt the 750 will be more desirable from a resale perspective.

Get the free Garmin GTN trainer app on your iPad and play with the 650 and the 750 configurations and do stuff like load a RNAV approach with lots of sequence waypoints and look at the different situational awareness aspects you can have between the two including putting you charts on the 750.

The pros and cons content in this video is a good discussion and more relevant to a RV size panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCt9N-h8X3o
 
My experience with the G3X + GTN-750. If you like the look of the 750, or will regret not having it because you really want it, go with the 750. But if you would be happy with the 650, and just want to be sure that you're not missing anything from the 750, then the 650 is fine.

The 750 is a great unit (I had one in my airplane) but I never really used it for much of anything. The 750 requires the Flightstream 510 to send to it as a standalone, but if you have a G3X, you can send to the 750 via the G3X. And as mentioned, the 750 displays charts.. but so does the G3X. Oh! But the 750 allows you to tune the transponder from it. Oh hey, so does the G3X. Point is, the 750 makes you IFR legal, but in my experience, interfacing with the unit is mostly done though the one G3X, unless you don't want to do it that way.
 
3 usable screens vs 2

A lot of comments most likely are biased with what one has, including mine. Both GTN’s will satisfy the mission I’m sure. My experience with the G3X + GTN-750 is it feels like I have 3 screens I can easily interface with with. The G3X in split and the 750 in the middle. It’s nice being able to leave the G3X split screens pretty much alone (with AHRS data and moving map with traffic showing) and approach plates and procedures (along with weather depictions when approach procedures not in use) on the 750 in the middle. If you have the room and are ok with the added price tag I’d recommend the 750. Besides no one every wishes they had a smaller screen, especially as we age. I’m sure if one gets the 650 in short enough time they will be able to interface with the G3X screens and work as well as with a 750 but will take more button pushing to look at the same data if you had 3 screens to interface with.
 
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I have owned both and found the 750 to simply cost more. If I didn't have EFIS I would want the 750 for the big moving map, but you have everything you need on the G3X, so it is just more money in my opinion. I wish Garmin would make a remote mount GPS WAAS Navigator. Two G3X screens and one backup G5 is perfect.
 
650Xi

I've been flying behind Dual G3X Touch + GTN 650Xi for several hundred hours now. It works well and I don't have any complaints (plus - the button-ology is far superior to the old 430W/530W).

Occasionally, I would like to have a little more real-estate for the split screen so I could see more of the approach plate without having to pinch-zoom-drag.

The GTN 750Xi would work great, and I have screen envy when I fly behind one, but the additional cost doesn't justify the feature IMHO.

For G3XPert - maybe you guys could add a "hide" option for the EIS panel when operating in split screen on the PFD...
 
I wish Garmin would make a remote mount GPS WAAS Navigator.

G3X already has that for VFR, as WAAS is built in. Seems to me that just about all GPS sold these days are WAAS.

For IFR approaches, the GPS has to be TSO'd, and there's lots more to it. The biggie is what data entry has to be done on the TSO'd device. The key point is that the G3X can put together a command string and send it to the GTN, but the data entry is accepted on the GTN.

Then there's things like data protocols between the two for additional functionalities, failure modes to consider, database updating, antenna and cabling for approved WAAS, etc.
 
A big consideration for me was the real estate on the panel. If space was of no limit, then I might have gone with the 750 but I prefered to have other equipment such as A/P head on the panel than just another screen.
 
G3X already has that for VFR, as WAAS is built in. Seems to me that just about all GPS sold these days are WAAS.

For IFR approaches, the GPS has to be TSO'd, and there's lots more to it. The biggie is what data entry has to be done on the TSO'd device. The key point is that the G3X can put together a command string and send it to the GTN, but the data entry is accepted on the GTN.

Then there's things like data protocols between the two for additional functionalities, failure modes to consider, database updating, antenna and cabling for approved WAAS, etc.

Yep. I find it funny that we can have uncertified engines, props, and displays that tell us what the GTN is doing, but we cannot have an IFR navigator that is uncertified. Times need to change.
 
Yep. I find it funny that we can have uncertified engines, props, and displays that tell us what the GTN is doing, but we cannot have an IFR navigator that is uncertified. Times need to change.

There’s a difference. If your experimental engine poops out, that basically affects only you. If your transponder or encoder is erroneous, or if you’re unable to fly an IFR GPS approach because your guidance is bad, that can affect others who are expecting compliance from you. Same for transmitter frequency tolerance. That’s why it’s the way it is.