[Maxrate]

So my son is joining the herd on the way to the airlines. He has about 380TT, PVT, instrument. 25 hours in cubs and a Citabria, and 20 hrs dual with me in a 7A that a friend is so generous to lend us. (Carl you know who you are) looking over the landscape right now, our budget more fits a three or three A, and I have all the glass to make up a pretty decent IFR panel for him to practice approaches in from my -7 build. He’s had the opportunity to sit in the front seat of a four and I’m curious to all the three owners what the difference is between the three and the four?

Is the four basically the three stretched? Is the front cockpit on the three and the four the same dimensionally? The -4 was snug! -4s are double the cost to acquire, 65-95K. Thoughts for a three time builder.

I would like to see him get about 4 to 500 hours in it. He’ll be using school planes to finish the comm and multiengine. Anyone in the Houston or surrounding area with a three that would be so gracious for him to sit in would be great. Thx all……

 

[Lufthans]

Mark,

Your son is lucky!!

I am 6'4" and 220 lbs and used to co-own an RV4, which I typically flew without the back cushion. Interestingly, this isn't nearly as uncomfortable as it sounds.

I've since sold my share in the -4 and have purchased a 3B, which I have put next in my line of projects. I've only done one ferry flight in it, so my cockpit time is very limited. I would say though that the 3 and 4 are pretty much on par when it comes to room inside.

I am modifying my 3 ever so slightly by sliding the base of the seatback aft a little bit. Unfortunately, the cross-over tube for the flaps is in the way for that, so I am moving that one aft as well, to behind the bulkhead.

But.... I am 3 inches taller than your son is. I would say he'll be fine without any significant modification. Remember- The 3 was Dick van Grunsvens personal airplane, and he's not a small person either. You'll do fine.

Hans

 

[Maxrate]

Thanks Hans, I don’t want to hack on all the new airline talent, but as the old dude with only seven years left as an airline captain, I’m seeing a lot of hand flying deficiencies with the new crowd. I want him to get as much hands-on experience before pushing buttons for the next 40yrs.
Of course, I’m wanting to get a little stick time in it too.

 

[Maxrate]

Hans,
Also, a search on the differences between the -3, -3A and 3B turn up very little other than a spar mod required for acro flight. What is the mod required by vans? Just trying to get a better understanding. Thx

 

[Dan 57]

Your son is lucky!!

He sure is
Regarding hours building, the RV-3 might not be really suited... time building would be way faster in say... an RV-12

 

[Maxrate]

He sure is
Regarding hours building, the RV-3 might not be really suited... time building would be way faster in say... an RV-12

Thanks Dan. He’ll earn his time in sweat equity, trust me. This won’t be a build for us, I want to purchase a flying-3 and am trying to educate myself on this spar mod for the 3. A flying three is 1/2 the cost on the market right now as the -4. There are two potential airplanes we’re looking at. One, is a straight RV3 the other, an RV 3A.

 

[nomocom]

If I was was going to put my 20 year old self in a time builder, it would be a 150 or 152. Not a 3. If it had to be a three, it would be a 3b. Study the spar upgrades. A 3 can get the 3a designation with some, but not all the recommended mods.

Now maybe your son is the epitome of self restraint and good judgement. I wasn’t in my twenties.

I’m 6’2”, long in the torso, and fit fine in 3’s and 152’s. But, I also enjoy kayaking so I’m comfortable with tight cockpits. The only fit change I made in the 3 was moving rudder pedals far forward.

 

[RV8Squaz]

So my son is joining the herd on the way to the airlines. He has about 380TT, PVT, instrument. 25 hours in cubs and a Citabria, and 20 hrs dual with me in a 7A that a friend is so generous to lend us. (Carl you know who you are) looking over the landscape right now, our budget more fits a three or three A, and I have all the glass to make up a pretty decent IFR panel for him to practice approaches in from my -7 build. He’s had the opportunity to sit in the front seat of a four and I’m curious to all the three owners what the difference is between the three and the four?

Is the four basically the three stretched? Is the front cockpit on the three and the four the same dimensionally? The -4 was snug! -4s are double the cost to acquire, 65-95K. Thoughts for a three time builder.

I would like to see him get about 4 to 500 hours in it. He’ll be using school planes to finish the comm and multiengine. Anyone in the Houston or surrounding area with a three that would be so gracious for him to sit in would be great. Thx all……

The -3 is a SINGLE SEAT aircraft. The -4 is a two seater.

 

[Snowflake]

FWIW, if he's looking to increase the number of hours in his logbook, he'll do it a lot faster in a Cub, Taylorcraft, or Aeronca.

 

[RayJr]

Hello, I'm 6'3 / 220 and bought my plane from a guy who is 6'5". It's very comfortable in my opinion.

I made a video a while back about what it's like flying/owning an RV3. Sent you a PM

 

[RWoodard]

I’ve owned two RV-3s in the last 25 years or so. When I first owned an RV-3 in 1999, I was 5‘10“ tall and weighed around 240 pounds. I fit just fine. I’m now down to 5‘9“ tall and weigh about 180 pounds. I fit even better!

I have at least 4 or 5 inches worth of extra padding under my seat and still have probably 4 inches between my head and the canopy. I feel like I am of normal proportions in terms of my legs and torso dimensions.

I have somewhere between 10 and 15 hours in the front seat of an RV-4. In my opinion, the RV-4 seems much tighter in the pilot position. I don’t know it for a fact, and I haven’t studied the drawings, but I believe when Van went from a single seat to a two seat airframe, he didn’t exactly double the space available for occupants. Hence, the front seat is a little tighter in the 4 versus the 3. Specifically, the instrument panel seems way closer to the pilot in a 4 versus the 3.

As to whether the RV three would be a good time builder, I would say absolutely! I owned a champ immediately after I sold my first RV-3 and I didn’t fly nearly as much in the Champ because it took forever to get anywhere and I didn’t always have time for multiple day trips to actually go someplace. In the RV-3, I could fly 300 miles away for breakfast and then turn around on the same day and make it home. The lack of speed and lack of performance capability of the Champ, I wouldn’t try 600 miles in a single day unless I was really up for an adventure. In reality, a decent RV-3 won’t cost any more than a decent Champ or Cub these days.

I wish I was closer to Houston because I’d be happy to let you and your son try my RV-3 on for size. This being said, I really don’t think fitting will be an issue.

 

[Maxrate]

Thanks for all the great replies! He’s been pounding around in the family Colt/Tri-Pacer for some time now and it’s time to move into something more challenging. Also there’s an RV formation group he could get into at our airport that would really challenge him.

In addition, my -7 instruments are just sitting for now and we, meaning He and I, could put together a panel for him to be able to file IFR to keep his instrument skills sharp. (Light IFR). All that said our budget fits the -3 right now.

Another thing has been brought to my attention on the -3 is the spar mod. For the price, the -4 and -3B are in the same ballpark. So that leaves us with a straight-3 or -3A. I want all the info I can get, so what should we be looking at on the spar mod? Thanks for all the responses and suggestions.

 

[Cannon]

I’m 6’5” and flew a friends RV-3. I fit, but just barely. Once in I was surprisingly comfy, it was just a matter of getting the right parachute to fit the geometry I needed. With no parachute it would've been a piece of cake.

 

[gasman]

Another thing has been brought to my attention on the -3 is the spar mod. For the price, the -4 and -3B are in the same ballpark. So that leaves us with a straight-3 or -3A. I want all the info I can get, so what should we be looking at on the spar mod? Thanks for all the responses and suggestions.

If you are not going to do aerobatics, the spar mod is not required...... https://www.vansaircraft.com/service-information-and-revisions/sb-96-03-1/

The straight three would be your lowest priced option.

 

[[email protected]]

So my son is joining the herd on the way to the airlines. He has about 380TT, PVT, instrument. 25 hours in cubs and a Citabria, and 20 hrs dual with me in a 7A that a friend is so generous to lend us. (Carl you know who you are) looking over the landscape right now, our budget more fits a three or three A, and I have all the glass to make up a pretty decent IFR panel for him to practice approaches in from my -7 build. He’s had the opportunity to sit in the front seat of a four and I’m curious to all the three owners what the difference is between the three and the four?

Is the four basically the three stretched? Is the front cockpit on the three and the four the same dimensionally? The -4 was snug! -4s are double the cost to acquire, 65-95K. Thoughts for a three time builder.

I would like to see him get about 4 to 500 hours in it. He’ll be using school planes to finish the comm and multiengine. Anyone in the Houston or surrounding area with a three that would be so gracious for him to sit in would be great. Thx all……

When I purchased my 3, I did not like getting in and out of it. I sat in a 8 and measured how far the instrument panel was away from my chest and moved the panel forward, making it much easier for my old bones to get in and out of it. It is for sale if you are interested. I'm in Enid, OK and you are welcome to come and sit in it.

 

[Flyguysr5]

So my son is joining the herd on the way to the airlines. He has about 380TT, PVT, instrument. 25 hours in cubs and a Citabria, and 20 hrs dual with me in a 7A that a friend is so generous to lend us. (Carl you know who you are) looking over the landscape right now, our budget more fits a three or three A, and I have all the glass to make up a pretty decent IFR panel for him to practice approaches in from my -7 build. He’s had the opportunity to sit in the front seat of a four and I’m curious to all the three owners what the difference is between the three and the four?

Is the four basically the three stretched? Is the front cockpit on the three and the four the same dimensionally? The -4 was snug! -4s are double the cost to acquire, 65-95K. Thoughts for a three time builder.

I would like to see him get about 4 to 500 hours in it. He’ll be using school planes to finish the comm and multiengine. Anyone in the Houston or surrounding area with a three that would be so gracious for him to sit in would be great. Thx all……

Have a 3A up in Bryan at CFD he is welcome to come sit in. I am 6'2" and enjoy flying it. Not going to take off your coat once you get in but.....

 

[Maxrate]

When I purchased my 3, I did not like getting in and out of it. I sat in a 8 and measured how far the instrument panel was away from my chest and moved the panel forward, making it much easier for my old bones to get in and out of it. It is for sale if you are interested. I'm in Enid, OK and you are welcome to come and sit in it.

Hangar7 check your inbox please.

 

[Snowflake]

...there’s an RV formation group he could get into at our airport that would really challenge him.
...
So that leaves us with a straight-3 or -3A. I want all the info I can get, so what should we be looking at on the spar mod?

If he's looking at formation flying, I wouldn't recommend a non-aerobatic plane. Simple breaks and rejoins don't require anything aerobatic, but there is still a fair bit of banking and yanking while learning, it's definitely harder on the plane than flying for a $100 hamburger. Also, he shouldn't plan to be learning formation in the -3 either, as he should have a check pilot on board until he's signed off as a wingman.

 

[nomocom]

If you are not going to do aerobatics, the spar mod is not required......

True. Yet, the stresses that the spar experiences are sometimes greater than the pilot intends. This could be because the pilot wants to learn basic aerobatics in a single seat airplane, and it goes wrong. Or, the last one I remember, it was a local fellow, a very experienced A&P/IA and ATP. Accident NTSB WPR17FA128. The report also discusses the CN1 and CN2 modifications.

 

[SkyDweller]

It sounds like your son has been able to build some pretty decent hours utilizing planes currently in your network. He’s still very young and has lots of time. Why not continue flying the planes available to him while helping you finish your 7, then ramp up flight hours in the 7? Sounds like what you’re building meets all of his needs.

The fact that he’ll have a build under his belt is great experience, and fantastic time spent with dad!

Especially as a young, learning pilot, a single seat aircraft seems rather limiting. Being able to fly with other experienced pilots has taught me much more than the time I spend solo.

 

[Maxrate]

Great thoughts Sky. He actually will continue to get dual instrument training in a friends -7A with me, fly the tripacer and learn how to think in three dimensions with the RV group doing formation. Of course all the training will be done in one of the two seat RVs before cutting him loose in the -3. My main concern is weather he would fit in a -3 and to open up a discussion on the -3 wing mod. He has a unique opportunity with this RV group that not all students would be able to otherwise get. Thanks for all the great replies!

 

[Mel]

Personally, I would not consider any -3 with less than the "B" mod. These mods were made for a reason!