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Gary 40274

Well Known Member
With the changes in thinking at the FAA and their insistance on the builder complete 51% of the project, does that mean that if say the airframe is completed buy a builder and he needs to sell it, that the new guy cannot lay claim to 51%? The question is, does the guy certifying the plane with the FAA need to be the one to have done 51% or can the previous amateur builders work count toward the 51%

Gary Specketer
 
The rule is that the major portion of the aircraft must be amateur-built. Not one individual person. Any number of people can be involved so long as they are not paid for construction.
 
51%

Gary,
Mel will probably jump in here with the offical answer, but here is my understanding....The kit still qualifies under the 51% rule even if built by multiple builders. If you buy a partially completed kit be sure and get a copy of the builders log and any photos of the build to prove that it is an amateur built aircraft.

Jim
 
51%

Heck, I should have was kept quite. Mel beat me to it while I was typing my answer.

Jim
 
Newbie

I'm a newbie, but facing the same basic question. The answers so far are consistent with what I have been told, but there is another aspect - the repairman's certificate. I understand that you (as in YOU) must have completed the 51% if you want to get the repairman's certificate for that aircraft - which allows you to do and certify all work done on it. To me, being able to register as a homebuilt aircraft is a given - but having the repairman's cert. is one of the biggest attractions of home building. I welcome comments or corrections...
 
The repairman certificate requires that you be the principle builder. There is a little gray area. You may qualify if you can convince the FSDO that you were involved in enough of the construction to competently conduct the annual condition inspection.
BTW, the repairman certificate is ONLY for conducting the condition inspection. You don't need any qualifications or certificate to do repairs and modifications.
 
Thanks

I was pretty sure I knew the answer to my question but I wanted to be dead on as I am doing a prebuy inspection today in Georgia for a guy in Minnesota and didn't want to stear anybody wrong. Thanks again

Gary Specketer
 
Clarification

I guess I misunderstood this whole thing, which leads me to a few more questions:

1. So, according to what Mel writes, I can buy an already built RV, do all the work on it myself and have an A&P do the annual condition inspection on it? (obviously, I would want to be sure I was qualified to do the work)

2. Or I could have the person who holds the repairman certificate for that airplane do the condition inspection?

3. Is the same true for certified aircraft or is the anybody-can-do-all-the-work part just true for aircraft registered as homebuilts?

It's a bit confusing. Your answers would be appreciated.
 
Yes you can buy a completed homebuilt and have an A&P do the annual condition inspection, or you can have the holder of the repairman certificate do it, but this applies only to homebuilts not certified aircraft.

Gary Specketer
 
douglassmt said:
I guess I misunderstood this whole thing, which leads me to a few more questions:

1. So, according to what Mel writes, I can buy an already built RV, do all the work on it myself and have an A&P do the annual condition inspection on it? (obviously, I would want to be sure I was qualified to do the work)

2. Or I could have the person who holds the repairman certificate for that airplane do the condition inspection?

3. Is the same true for certified aircraft or is the anybody-can-do-all-the-work part just true for aircraft registered as homebuilts?

It's a bit confusing. Your answers would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

The very first paragraph of FAR 43 (the one that regulates what qualifications are required to work on certificated aircraft) states..."This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an experimental airworthiness certificate has been issued".

Because of this, anyone can do repairs or maint. on an experimental amateur built. Because FAR 43 doesn't apply, one of the line items in the operating limitations issued for any experimental is to designate who can do condition inspections. For Experimental Amateur Built the standard requirement is a holder of a repairmans certificate for that airplane or an A&P. As already noted, the repairman cert. is not required to be able to do repairs. You can do a total rebuild on a wrecked RV and then sign off the work and go fly it as long as it has had a condition inspection completed by a qualified person within the preceding 12 months
 
Just Like Scott says!

douglassmt said:
I guess I misunderstood this whole thing, which leads me to a few more questions:

1. So, according to what Mel writes, I can buy an already built RV, do all the work on it myself and have an A&P do the annual condition inspection on it? (obviously, I would want to be sure I was qualified to do the work)
YEP!

2. Or I could have the person who holds the repairman certificate for that airplane do the condition inspection?
YEP!

3. Is the same true for certified aircraft or is the anybody-can-do-all-the-work part just true for aircraft registered as homebuilts?
NOPE! JUST EXPERIMENTALS!

It's a bit confusing. Your answers would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Words added to contain at least 10 characters.
 
douglassmt[;319032]

3. Is the same true for certified aircraft or is the anybody-can-do-all-the-work part just true for aircraft registered as ]homebuilts?
Click to expand...

Actually you can do the work yourself if you are the owner/ or operator on a certified aircraft as long as you have an A/P sign off the work, and the inspected the work you performed and found it to standards. At least that's how we did it with the 172. I guess that was legal. Its probably best not to take my post for the gospel.
 
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Actually, you can only do that if you performing your work under the direct supervision of an A&P Sonny. I'll leave the definition of "Direct Supervision" up to an array of FSDO's, all of whom will have slightly varying opinions.

(I did much of the maintenance of my old Grumman for two decades under the supervision of a good friend who was an IA. He was happy with the supervisory level that he applied....)

Paul
 
Experimental

You can get a certified plane and have it re-certified as "experimental" and legally do all the work yourself. It, of course, devalues the plane significantly, but is exactally what that fellow did to the 150 knot Piper 140 that use to go to OSH (maybe still does?). He had vortex generators all over it and a lot of other speed mods. The paint job was a little rough though as I remember.

You would need for an A&P to do the conditional inspection but you could do all the work.
 
Ahhhh, maybe not

gvgoff99 said:
You can get a certified plane and have it re-certified as "experimental" and legally do all the work yourself........

You would need for an A&P to do the conditional inspection but you could do all the work.
Click to expand...

Hoping a DAR will jump in, but I think if you want to change a standard category plane to "experimental", you will have to prove to the FAA that you intend to use the plane for genuine testing of something new, such as the speed mods you mention. I don't think you can just arbitrarily change categories. Experimental aircraft need a "Condition Inspection" performed annually, and as you mention, that inspection can be performed by an A&P.

Mel???
 
Pete is right. You can't change a "Standard" to "Experimental" just because you want to. Which "Experimental" would you use? You certainly can't use amateur-built. There are several categories you can use, but none of them are very practical. Most of the categories are given an airworthiness certificate that has a 1 year expiration. So it would have to re-certificated every year.
Another point is that if you ever want to put the aircraft back into "Standard", you must go through quite a process to prove that it meets it's original type certificate.
 
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