AntiGravity

AntiGravity

Well Known Member
Just to let the group know, I too have scoured the Internet unsuccessfully for this type of washer. So I found these guys and thought I'd pop the question. I haven't had a reply yet (only just sent it), but when I do I'll post back here.

Hi,
Ref: http://mrwasherman.com/index.html

Many builders of RV series of aircraft attach the fibreglass wingtips to the wing using #4 countersunk screws rather than the specified pop rivets. However, this causes problems with the paint finish if the tips later have to be removed. Many builders have searched the Internet, unsuccessfully for #4 100 degree countersunk stainless steel tinnerman-type washers for this application.

Do you make such a washer? If so, how much are they and in what quantities.

If not, can you make such a washer? Again, how much would they be and what minimum order would be required?

If you are able to assist I shall post a message in the VansAircraft Forums with your information so that builders know where they can get these washers. As for myself and another local builder here in NZ, we'd need two hundred or so of them (100 each). Let me know.

Thanks,
--
Jeff Preou
Hamilton, New Zealand
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ST-ST disks!

I thought of that too, but wasn't able to find ST-ST blanks. Also, the csk formed by the dimpler seems to be more rounded than the tinnermans I have seen so far and I wasn't sure how flat the home-made washer would sit. If I could get some suitable ST-ST washers that had a #4 hole and a decent OD then I'd try it...
 
You're right. The home made ones using a dimpler don't turn out as nice. The dimpler makes them more 'V' shaped whereas the purchased tinnermans have the sides bend parallel. I made about 2 dozens for some fiberglass cover panels and would buy some new #4 if they were located.

Steve
RV7A
 
Reply from Mr.Washerman!

Here's the quote that I received (summarized) and my subsequent reply.​


Hi there Hector,
thanks for the quote: I shall pitch it to the VansAirforce guys and see what they think.
Please excuse my ignorance, but just so I get this straight for the guys, please confirm:-

If we order 100 washers then the cost is $332
If we order 1000 washers then the cost is $32 (10x $3.20 per 100)

Or do I read it wrongly? Because that seems to be a huge disparity!
Are perhaps the numbers for packs of 100 washers? (as in, 1000 packs of 100 washers?)

Thanks,
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 9:26 a.m.
To: Jeff Preou
Subject: RE: MrWasherman - #4 CSK ST-ST washers
Quote # 5551
12/06/06
Part Name
N/A
Part / DWG No.
#4 100 degree countersunk
Material Required
Stainless Steel

Qty 100 1,000 5,000
Per 100 pcs $332.00 $3.20 $7.20

Delivery
4 Weeks to ship

NOTES: 100 pc would be insignificant for you and for us PLEASE see price break(s) above.

Price Quote Disclaimer:
Prices: are good for 2 Weeks from the day of the quote (UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED)
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Clarification

Here's the reply.

Correct pricing for ( 1,000 Pcs @ $33.20 per 100) = $332.00
Same total cost for 100 Pcs a guess in other words Minimum buy is 1,000 Pcs
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So we need to front up for at least 1000 washers. I need 100, and another local guy will probably need 100. That's the number of nutplates/screws in the Cleaveland #4 wingtip kit, by the way. So to make this purchase we'd need another eight guys for a similar amount.

Now, I could do the group buy thing, but since I am in New Zealand it really wouldn't be effective for me to do so. Any takers? The other option would be to purchase and onsell at cost + freight )in my case, a portion of the freight here as well as the actual freight back out again, which wouldn't be very cost effective).

Whaddaya think guys? Or perhaps we should petition someone like Cleaveland or Aircraft Spruce and see if they want to front it all for a guaranteed number of buyers (though they would more than likely add a significant cut for doing so?).

Comments?
 
Tinnermans

I am not sure why you want to go with these. You'll find they are a PITA. I used them initially then replaced them with 6-32's. Much happier now.

I purchased a bunch of them but can't remember where. They were no where near that cost. The price you are getting is ridiculous and for that reason alone would go with 6-32's.
 
I am interested...but like you I am in South Africa

I have also already bought the cleaveland wing tip set, so I am kind a of locked into the #4. Is the #4 really such a pain? I'm sure there are many builders out there that it works fine, why else is cleaveland selling those kits?

If we get 8 more people together someone in the USA can do the subdivide and forward it to the rest of us. Defnitiley do a groupbuy thing, I am sure some USA builder will jump in and assist, since the RV community is all about helping each other.

The other option, if we do not get 8 more people is to Send an Email to Cleaveland, ask them to stock it, and sell it as an add-on to their wing tip kit.

Regards
Rudi
 
Cleaveland kit

Like Rudi, myself and the other local builder I mention are also already locked in to the #4 kit from Cleaveland. That's three of us, and I'm sure there must be more. I suspect th 6-32 are better, and overall would likely be cheaper, but since I already have the #4's that's what I'll be using. Next time, when I'm maybe a little wiser, perhaps I'll go to the larger size. Unless someone out there wants to purchase a Cleaveland #4 stainless wing tip kit? :)
Otherwise, come on guys, lets see if we can't get this sorted...
 
Why??

AntiGravity said:
Like Rudi, myself and the other local builder I mention are also already locked in to the #4 kit from Cleaveland. .
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Okay, I'm confused, just because you have them, you are "locked in." SEND THEM BACK. Easy enough. You are never "locked in" ever. I had my 4-40's installed and removed and replaced with #6 stuff in two hours!!!!!

You are trying to help fellow RVer's and so am I. I know of at least three people who dumped the 4-40 idea after trying them. The effort you have put into finding the 4-40 tinnermans, negotiating a group deal and posting you could have completed 3 RV plane tips with 6-32's at a fraction of the cost. I"m sure you'll find a few that have used the #4 but many more have traded up.

#6 Tinnermans 100 $9.60
#6 screws 100 $10.00
Nutplate 100 $8.00

Now you've got a complete kit with some extra hardware and the BS factor is gone. I used the 100 price because it saves a few bucks. The number 6's look great too.

Just trying to help guys. Been there, done that, got the headache.
 
Hmmm...

RV7Guy said:
#6 Tinnermans 100 $9.60
#6 screws 100 $10.00
Nutplate 100 $8.00
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If I can source all the parts for those kind of prices then I could well be tempted to simply forget I have the #4 kit. I hate to waste money though. I've had the #4 kit for a long time now, so I doubt Cleaveland would accept it back.
I'm gonna do some price checking. Thanks.
 
Why replace?

RV7Guy said:
I had my 4-40's installed and removed and replaced with #6 stuff in two hours!!!!!
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RV7Guy said:
I"m sure you'll find a few that have used the #4 but many more have traded up.
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Just curious. I can possibly see me switching, since I haven't installed the tips. But why have people beed replacing #4 with #6 when they already have them installed?
 
RV7Guy said:
I am not sure why you want to go with these. You'll find they are a PITA. I used them initially then replaced them with 6-32's. Much happier now.
Click to expand...
I already have the 4-40 Cleaveland kit installed, and I'm just not having any trouble with them. I use Boelube on the screw the first time, and use a really good screwdriver. No problems so far, and I've had the screws in and out a number of times. I'd be interested in the tinnerman washers for when I actually have paint to worry about. ;) As Rudi suggested, the ideal solution would be for Cleavland to pick up the deal, since the minimum order wouldn't be a big concern for them.
 
Photos of #6 Tinnermans

img1906us5.jpg
img1910gh4.jpg



Here are a couple of images of the #6 Tinnermans. Actually I went with the Stainless steel version. They look great and are very functional. Sorry about the bugs, I just got back from flying!!
 
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