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Elwell81

Member
I am currently building a -9A and am trying to look down the road a bit. I live about 15 miles north of Green Bay, WI and am contemplating which airport to start looking for hangar space. There is a small community airport (92C) less than 5 miles from my house but the runway is 2550' X 30' and my concern is the safety of flight testing with such a small facility. The other option is KGRB which is a Class C airport, which has (2) >8000'X150' runways. I know the obvious choice would be KGRB but I would prefer the smaller airport due to the proximity to my home, which I guess begs another question as to what stage of the build does the airplane need to go to the hangar and how much work is usually left at the hangar. Unless I'm mistaken, it seems like I could get most of the work done in my garage, short of installing the wings for the last time. Any opinions or comments are welcomed. Thanks
-Andy
 
Bigger Airport better for Phase 1

Go for the larger airport. People take longer than they imagined after the airport arrival. Plan on at least 3-6 months even if you think it is done at home.

Although the shorter runway is OK for 9A ops, the 9 is a real floater and most guys I've trained would need the longer runway until they got the picture. Eliminate one more risk factor!

After your phase 1 and when you are comfortable, you can move to the more convenient location.
 
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30 ft not for me. I will be worried enough on my first flight to have to worry about x winds adding another component.

I thought about the same thing but I like have 150ft and a control tower to worry about traffic. I have never test flown an airplane. And safety margin is important to me. You can never have too much runway unless its behind you and you can never have too much gas unless your on fire.

You can build most in your garage.

Good luck on your decision.
 
Welcome to VAF!

Andy, welcome to the good ship VAF:D

For the first few flights, bigger is better for sure.
 
I fly out of 2600'x35' on a regular basis in the 172 - but for my first few flights in the 9A I'll be moving it to a longer (but not any wider) runway. I want plenty of length to make decisions and get used to the aircraft performance before I bring it back to home base. With my narrow runways I simply won't be doing any early Phase I work with crosswinds. I still won't have a tower directing traffic, but I'll have a dedicated paved runway that's only shared by a couple cropdusting aircraft, so traffic will be easy to manage!
 
Andy, I have a flying 9A and another one I am working on doing the "finishing" kit. I think I have some relevant experience to share.

I bought the flying 9A and flew it home in November and now have about 45 hours on it. I would not do phase I testing at 92C because of the runway size, particularly the length.

Getting the 9A in and out of 92C won't be a problem once you've learned the landing characteristics of the 9A, and you've verified the accuracy of your ASI, and you've worked any bugs out of your plane. The 9A doesn't bleed off air speed like a 172. Ten or 15 extra knots on final in the 172, while poor form, probably wouldn't force a go around in the 172 at 92C. With a 9A the extra speed is going to result in a go around or be hard on the brakes, the nose wheel, or both - particularly if you land long.

It seems wise to me to put all the odds you can in your favor during Phase I. A bigger runway is certainly doing that.

Lastly, don't kid yourself that just because the 9A is easy to fly and to land, that there is no transition when going from a 172 to the 9A. The statistics certainly don't support it. My experience suggests there's not only a transition but that there are phases to the transition where you go from somewhat competent to increasingly skilled in various phases of flight.

You're going to love the 9A, too. It is a remarkable flying machine.

As for when to move to the airport - I'm not planning on taking mine out until I'm ready for final assembly.
 
Go Big, then go home

My two cents:

Suggest you go to the larger, parallel runway environment for Phase 1.

I've never (yet) used the complete 150' width of my home runway, but it's nice to have if needed. I'm a low time pilot, and in Phase 1; I won't go up when I know or expect significant crosswinds. Did have some unpredicted 15-18kt crosswinds oncet, and the 9a did very well... but I had a very wide target to work with.

As others discussed, some risks can be reduced through good transition training, good pilot technique, and... more runway. This came in handy for testing, and I have been very grateful, once or twice, to have 5000' of pavement when that amazing 9a wing demonstrated how well it glides in ground effect.

I also suggest talking to a DAR/FSDO to see what's available for a Phase 1 area - there might be a difference between the area associated with the different airports.

YMMV.
 
Be aware that as long as the smaller runway is within your flight test area, you can land there during phase I.
I do recommend the larger runway for the first flights, but you are not limited to only that runway.
 
I would also ask: Is one of these airports surrounded by cornfields, and the other by houses or trees? That would make a difference in my decision.
 
Landing elsewhere... that depends...

Mel said:
Be aware that as long as the smaller runway is within your flight test area, you can land there during phase I.
I do recommend the larger runway for the first flights, but you are not limited to only that runway.
Click to expand...

The Hlllsboro, Ore FSDO did the A/W inspection for my -9A in 2010 and my Operating Limitations came with the restriction of only landing and taking off at my "home" airport until Phase 1 was completed! Others in the area that had DAR's do the inspection got carte blanc for practice airports in their area. So be aware that what others get might not be what you get, depending on WHO does the inspection.
 
The big airport has a number of advantages. One being a fire and security crew, second being radar coverage of your flight all the way back to the ground (whether on the runway or otherwise :()

I am also a proponent of the "fast taxi". I found it very easy (and comforting) to run the whole 8000 feet at AVL jockeying the elevator and throttle to keep the nose wheel off the ground. When I did the first flight the next day, I had already been on the runway and dealt with the tower so that part of the first flight was a non issue. The big runway was good.

In regards to "how complete" at home, well... As complete as you can. The hangar work should be assembly, not fabrication. However, I think there is a common item left until last . I speak of the gear fairings. I think most do early flights without (which is a good idea). You can lull yourself into the trap (I'll do them later). I would emplore you to get them fabricated at home.
 
Like the otheres said ...

... go for KGRB. I don't like all the Class C procedures any more than the next guy, but having them sequencing and spacing other inbound traffic when you're in the test flight phase is HUGE. Those first ten hours or so will find you incredibly busy in that new 9A. There are a million things to acclimate to and to understand ... you won't want to be announcing your d'wind, base, and final at the same time.
It took me about three hours just to get used to the GRT displays, then another 7 or so to get all the alarm limits set right and start relaxing behind the stick.

But like they said, it's a marvelous airplane.
 
What Bill Pendergrass said-

A. The safety that comes with a towered field.
AC NO: 90-89A " AMATEUR-BUILT AIRCRAFT AND ULTRALIGHT FLIGHT TESTING HANDBOOK" suggests a ground safety crew, ambulance, fire department, etc., may be available "... for a donation..." and recommends identifying the local hospital, which may not be nearby. Much of this is already done for you at a towered field.

B. Double ++1 on finishing fairings first.
If you choose to leave them unmounted for first flight (I did) you are then faced with "fly or fit" decisions on every suitable day. Some of my (unfaired) flight test data must be retested when I finally do finish fashioning and fitting my fairings.

Now back to the garage to sand fiberglass...
 
Thanks for the replies

I appreciate all of your comments and was leaning towards the bigger airport, just wanted to hear some other opinions.

On the topic of time to finish once in the hangar, any rough estimates in hours? As a side note, I work 30 days on/30 off and average about 10 hours a day on the airplane when I'm home, so I'm anticipating a fairly quick final assembly. Thanks again.
 
I finished my RV-7A in my hangar at Skylane 3EV with a nice 2,100' x 140' grass runway. First takeoff was from 3EV but the landing was at KEVV our local Class C airport. I kept the plane at KEVV for the first 15 hours before relocating back at my home field. Like everyone has said, the wide open spaces of a Class C airport sure makes getting your baby back on the ground a lot easier. I only had a total of 110 hours, with the last 5 being transition training with Pierre, when I made the first flight. I really didn't need the pressure of making my first landing on a grass strip added on top of the first flight pressures. After I was comfortable with the plane landing back at 3EV was uneventful.
 
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