Excellent article.

A $100 fine for not having the NOTAM in the plane landing at OSH is a great start! ;)
 
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I Don't Think So

I think the article is arrogant and shallow at the same time. It does nothing to evaluate the problems involved or present any real solutions to the vast differences in performance, skills, experience and confidence that lock a pilot into abnormal attempts to conform to perceived rules when they are scared to do what their instincts tell them they need to do to keep the airplane flying. Flying a plane too slow and crashing because the plane in front is flying slow is no better flying that the pilot ahead that isn't maintaining published airspeed or altitude. That old "I don't have an answer" statement is just a weak attempt to avoid responsibility for providing any real solution to the many problems including peer pressure fear and sudden exposure to situations demanding sometimes life saving accommodation.

It is a zoo. Last year after the Airventure Cup race recovery I just tied the plane down at Fond Du Lac instead of making the group arrival flight to Oshkosh as I had in previous years. This year after the race I plan on flying home and not even driving to Oshkosh. That should help the situation - You're welcome.

Bob Axsom
 
Interesting

How bout everybody show their printed NOTAM on arrival, all those who can't comply get a manditory yet free 2 hours of ground instruction by someone with a voice like Ben Stein.
 
Oshkosh logbook endorsement?

I know it probably wouldn't be practical, but seems like what is needed by many (most?) pilots is some pre-Oshkosh flight instruction. The conditions and procedures are very different from what most pilots are trained to handle, and its not the least bit surprising that many of them fail to perform as specified in the NOTAM. How many pilots can consistently land within 50' of a designated spot, from a non-standard pattern, at the end of a high-stress flight? Based on watching OSH landings over the years I'd say maybe 10%.

It would be easy enough to design a training curriculum for Oshkosh. Not so easy to get people to take the instruction I suppose.

25 years ago my 35,000+ hour flight instructor had this to say about flying to Oshkosh: "You should fly into Fond du Lac and take the bus".
 
Bob Axsom said:
I think the article is arrogant and shallow at the same time. It does nothing to evaluate the problems involved or present any real solutions to the vast differences in performance, skills, experience and confidence that lock a pilot into abnormal attempts to conform to perceived rules when they are scared to do what their instincts tell them they need to do to keep the airplane flying. Flying a plane too slow and crashing because the plane in front is flying slow is no better flying that the pilot ahead that isn't maintaining published airspeed or altitude. That old "I don't have an answer" statement is just a weak attempt to avoid responsibility for providing any real solution to the many problems including peer pressure fear and sudden exposure to situations demanding sometimes life saving accommodation.

Bob Axsom
Click to expand...
Bob,
With all due respect I have just read the article in question and have to disagree with your statement that the author does not provide any solutions to the problem. Under the section "A Few Symptoms" in the second paragraph the author begins to spell out his suggestions. Then later on under the section "Here's The Deal" are many bullet points listing out what he proposes.

Those seem like suggestions to me.
 
i'll spread that rumor

i'm all for charging idiots $100... well maybe idiots is the wrong word.. anyway, i fully support manditory Oshkosh specific flight instruction!!



i know i'm still a student pilot, but osh seems to be to... sketchy, for me.. i'd love to drive in!! or skydive in during a no fly window!! :D
 
Its been my observation that those who think attemps at improving safety is worthess are usually part of the problem.
tm
 
With all the great videos on the EAA website, how difficult would it be to put an instructional video up to show the procedure? Kind of both a "what to do" and a "what not to do" video. I understand that it is different for different kinds of airplanes, but something is better than nothing. Of course, if folks would fly in and not read the NOTAM they probably won't see the video either but at least flying clubs, FBOs and other groups could use it as a presentation to their members. I for one, flew in for several years before I ever finally saw the approach controller's trailer next to the railroad tracks at Fisk. It helps to know they are talking to you when you know where the trailer actually is. The pictures in the NOTAM didn't really look the same to me out the window.
 
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f1rocket said:
With all the great videos on the EAA website, how difficult would it be to put an instructional video up to show the procedure? Kind of both a "what to do" and a "what not to do" video. I understand that it is different for different kinds of airplanes, but something is better than nothing. Of course, if folks would fly in and not read the NOTAM they probably won't see the video either but at least flying clubs, FBOs and other groups could use it as a presentation to their members. I for one, flew in for several years before I ever finally saw the approach controller's trailer next to the railroad tracks at Fisk. It helps to know they are talking to you when you know where the trailer actually is. The pictures in the NOTAM didn't really look the same to me out the window.
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Jerry Thorne, RV-9A builder/flyer filmed his OSH approach from Fisk through taxi and shutdown. You can see his videos here:

http://www.n2prise.org/rv9a228.htm#OshVideo1

Please be kind to his server! The files are big.

But yeah, Randy I believe an instructional video from EAA would help more than anything. Why not just make a DVD of it and sell it on-line? It would be a great money maker for them and I would buy it.
 
great biz opportunity

You guys that live up in Wisconsin should make the video and start selling it. Grab some kids from a local university film school, and get after it!
 
The author, Rick Durden, has written many good articles been proselytizing Airventure Oshkosh safety. He has always expressed zero tolerance for people who don't have the skills to fly the pattern at OSH (ie slow flight), and for those who don't know the NOTAM inside and out.

Check out his Airventure Suvival Guide.

He has also hosted some good discusions on the topic on the CFI Cast podcast, which is part of the PilotCast podcast.
 
Survival of the fittest

I'm really looking forward to flying to Oshkosh now that I have my pilot's license, I am sure it will be a great addition to my log book. I envision it being much like my motocross racing days......when the gate drops you haul as fast as you can with 35 other guys towards a narrow spot in which only 5 can fit. You gotta love it. ;)

In case someone can't figure it out..... I'm joking!
 
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$100 fine for no notam? How 'bout a pulled ticked and a long walk home for obviously ignoring to comply with it? That's what the guys at my local FSDO would do anyway...
 
aerial said:
I'm really looking forward to flying to Oshkosh now that I have my pilot's license, I am sure it will be a great addition to my log book. I envision it being much like my motocross racing days......when the gate drops you haul as fast as you can with 35 other guys towards a narrow spot in which only 5 can fit. You gotta love it. ;)

In case someone can't figure it out..... I'm joking!
Click to expand...

That sounds pretty close to what I remember from my motorcycle racing days as well:D
 
Bob, the article seems fine to me. When pilots screw up and fail to read the NOTAM for an event like Oshkosh, they are a threat to themselves, other pilots and people on the ground.

Personally, I have ZERO desire to fly in there for that reason. I got plenty of self-fulfillment by flying into Monument Valley, Catalina Island, Key West, the Bahamas, etc.
 
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